Having a tutor

[crompers]

So I had my first lesson last night and it was great, we covered warm up, some notation stuff, some scales, timing and playing with a metronome and then some ear training and transcription which was very handy as I had no idea the techniques people use to work stuff out just from listening to records. He seemed pretty impressed I'd learnt pretty much all the notes on the first 5 frets and my major scale.

I can see this working out, guy is around my age and can well imagine going for a pint with him/we have similar tastes in music. I can totally see the attraction in having someone to tell you when you are doing well and what to work on next, worth the money IMO.

I know people on here have been playing for years who probably never did have a tutor, just wondering whether you wished you had or you think you have developed better as a player for not having one (for whatever reason).

Edited March 29, 2017 by crompers

[Coilte]

I definitely think that a tutor is very beneficial. There is nothing like sitting knee to knee with a real live teacher. IMO you learn much faster with a teacher. Having said that, it is important to get a teacher who you gel with. You seem to have done this. There are lots of people teaching, who are great players and know their stuff, but at the same time lack the skill to convey that knowledge.

I have had some great, and not so great teachers, so it is important to choose carefully, and not be afraid to move on if a teacher is not working out for you.

[Geek99]

I did have a tutor and I would do it again. I don't have time at the moment but one day....
They spot things that you didnt notice (I swing when leading with my index finger, but am rock solid with my middle finger) and they do boost your confidence. One told me, when I was at a low point, that I was actually much better than I thought I was. We had just knocked out a scratch version of "Stand by Me" and despite never playing it before, I kept it together all the way though albeit with a couple of thin spots.
Because he was also a "good enough" drummer and guitarist he was able to quickly put together a scratch backing track and email it afterwards, so it was all very customised; however as Coilte says, it was to be the [i]right[/i] teacher for [b]you[/b].

[Matt P]

i'd been playing for years before i had a proper lesson (although i did have guitar lessons 20 years ago before i saw the light)

having someone help me with technique and stuff really helped, i've been continuing for about 2 years now and i can play faster and more accurately than ever before. we're now onto more advanced rhythm and timing, the guys in the band have really noticed that my playing has improved and i've noticed that i can play for much longer before my hands start to ache.

My teacher is about the same age as me and has become a friend ( he was originally introduced as a friend of a friend) i think that it really helps that he plays in bands that are my type of music, when he's picking out tracks for me to transcribe and learn i've usually already got them, and the ones that i haven't are quickly bought and go on rotation in the car.

he also teaches music as a day job and it's very encouraging when he tells me that i can do something that his degree students can't!

i'm going to stop now as he's a member on here and i don't want to seem too sycophantic.

Matt

[RhysP]

Never had a tutor, nobody did when I started playing in the late 70s unless you were learning classical guitar, violin or piano. I wouldn't have been able to afford lessons even if the option had been available to me.
I did what everybody else I knew did, learnt by playing along to records. It hasn't stopped me doing anything I've wanted to do musically & I don't feel I've missed out by not having lessons.

(Didn't vote in the poll as there isn't an option that fits how I feel about it. A "No, but I can see why it would be useful for other people" type option would have been good).

Edited March 29, 2017 by RhysP

[Bobthedog]

I have a tutor, the second one I have had and cannot recommend it highly enough. My first was great at getting me through the first few music grades but was a guitar man, not a bass player and I was only learning by rote.

The new guy is a pro bass player (also possibly a member on here) and he has really opened my eyes up to learning about music and understanding what and why things are done. For me that is perfect, I am also really learning at the same time, it makes each Saturday something to look forward to.

One other major difference between the two is that the first guy taught but this guy gives me the tools to go and learn by myself - a true tutor.

[BrunoBass]

[quote name='RhysP' timestamp='1490787844' post='3267955']

(Didn't vote in the poll as there isn't an option that fits how I feel about it. A "No, but I can see why it would be useful for other people" type option would have been good).
[/quote]

Agreed.

[Grangur]

I've been to 3 tutors and I guess I've been unfortunate. With the exception of picking up a few practice techniques and learning the bass line in a small selection of numbers I didn't gain a lot.

My reason for finding a tutor has always been, at times when I've felt I was hitting a wall. I was hoping to find a new sense of direction. It never happened.

In fairness, I'm not in a band and have little chance if being in a position to have time available to commit to a band.

One "tutor" even told me that unless you can hold a position of 1 finger per fret in the first position, with all fingers firm on the fingerboard, thumb in the centre of the back, in relative comfort, you may as well give up. That was the message at the first lesson. I was 53 FFS. My fingers weren't equipped for that stretch without working at it. I gave him up and kept the bass.

Other tutors have always started each lesson with the immortal question, "well, what do you want to learn?"
Answer: "I don't know. If I did I wouldn't be here."

So, I stick at it and sight read. I know, I'm odd.

[ambient]

[quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1490791617' post='3268003']


Other tutors have always started each lesson with the immortal question, "well, what do you want to learn?"
Answer: "I don't know. If I did I wouldn't be here."
.
[/quote]

But surely you have to know what it is you want to learn for, in order that they can help you?

Do you want to learn to sight-read, more about theory, harmony, transcribing, walking bass, soloing, techniques. The list is quite endless, so they'd have to ask you.

[Bilbo]

I have had a small number of lessons over the years. These have been one with Paul Westwood, two with Dudley Phillips and a few with a guy called Dan Quinton. Dad's were the most useful as they were properly focused on my learning needs. Most of it is self taught.

[crompers]

Poll updated to include extra 'No' answer.

Interesting stuff, I'll defo bear in mind to ask to do different things in future. At the moment happy for him to lead.

[Grangur]

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1490791941' post='3268010']


But surely you have to know what it is you want to learn for, in order that they can help you?

Do you want to learn to sight-read, more about theory, harmony, transcribing, walking bass, soloing, techniques. The list is quite endless, so they'd have to ask you.
[/quote]
I know a fair bit of theory, but I don't know what it is I don't know. As for the rest, yes I guess that's what I want to learn. I'm an analytical person when it comes to a lot of things. I'm an engineer by trade. So, I guess that is what I want to learn. I guess what I need is a good chat with a good teacher to discuss the next stage. IME as soon as I say "I'm not in a band" most tutors are dead in the water.

[Dood]

[quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1490791617' post='3268003']
I've been to 3 tutors and I guess I've been unfortunate. With the exception of picking up a few practice techniques and learning the bass line in a small selection of numbers I didn't gain a lot.

My reason for finding a tutor has always been, at times when I've felt I was hitting a wall. I was hoping to find a new sense of direction. It never happened.

In fairness, I'm not in a band and have little chance if being in a position to have time available to commit to a band.

One "tutor" even told me that unless you can hold a position of 1 finger per fret in the first position, with all fingers firm on the fingerboard, thumb in the centre of the back, in relative comfort, you may as well give up. That was the message at the first lesson. I was 53 FFS. My fingers weren't equipped for that stretch without working at it. I gave him up and kept the bass.

Other tutors have always started each lesson with the immortal question, "well, what do you want to learn?"
Answer: "I don't know. If I did I wouldn't be here."

So, I stick at it and sight read. I know, I'm odd.
[/quote]

Oh my. I feel for you! Your first tutor isn't a tutor. My eldest student is 73 and I have taught students who, for example, fell off a motorbike one to many times and that affected their playing position. Hasn't stopped them from progressing well and enjoying playing the instrument! My youngest students are around the age of 9 and in some cases the guitar is huge. Doesn't stop us from being able to play some songs together though. Theory is easy when a teacher knows how to make learning fun too.

The other tutors you mention, for whatever reason, have asked the wrong questions. I don't know why that may be. Having a 'curriculum', or being able to pull on progressive teaching material is very important, but knowing how to teach it is paramount. Knowing how to ask the student what their aspirations are will be very helpful, especially if you know how to guide them. i.e. If they are unsure what they 'want to learn'.

[Dood]

[quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1490792418' post='3268022']
I know a fair bit of theory, but I don't know what it is I don't know. As for the rest, yes I guess that's what I want to learn. I'm an analytical person when it comes to a lot of things. I'm an engineer by trade. So, I guess that is what I want to learn. I guess what I need is a good chat with a good teacher to discuss the next stage. [i]IME as soon as I say "I'm not in a band" most tutors are dead in the water.[/i]
[/quote]

Any teacher worth their salt would have no problem with this. Plenty of my students have no aspiration to play in a band. Not inclined or simply wouldn't have the time to devote to it. They get the same 110% from me every lesson.

[Coilte]

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1490791941' post='3268010']
But surely you have to know what it is you want to learn for, in order that they can help you?
[/quote]

No..not necessarily. Someone completely new to bass and learning to play, will not know where to start. All they know is that they want to learn to play. It is up to the teacher to find out what the pupil's goals are and then advise/teach accordingly. This is what I meant earlier when I mentioned the importance of getting a [i]good [/i]teacher. It is not enough to be a good player and know your stuff if you don't have the teaching skill.

IMO, if a teacher has to ask a pupil what to teach...it's time to look for another teacher.

[crompers]

I think it is fair enough to ask what music they are into, what they want to play and what the ultimate goal is (play for yourself, play in a band)

I would then expect them to have some techniques to teach you to help you get there.

[mikel]

Never had a tutor. Back in the day there was no such thing, not that I was aware of anyway. It was rock and roll and it was being made up on the spot. Learned to play bass the same way I learned the drums, by listening and practice. Going to a tutor would have made it too much like school, something I had to do, rather than breaking the rules and doing something that was "Ours" not the establishments. Never deliberately played a scale or felt the need to learn to read music. Still playing and loving it after 50 years.

[Coilte]

[quote name='crompers' timestamp='1490793149' post='3268038']
I think it is fair enough to ask what music they are into, what they want to play and what the ultimate goal is (play for yourself, play in a band)

I would then expect them to have some techniques to teach you to help you get there.
[/quote]

Yes. In order to keep the pupil interested and motivated, a teacher would ask the pupil about his/her's musical interests.

[Grangur]

[quote name='Coilte' timestamp='1490793356' post='3268044']
Yes. In order to keep the pupil interested and motivated, a teacher would ask the pupil about his/her's musical interests.
[/quote]

And a good teacher will know what questions to ask to probe to get the right action plan together. I'm afraid I don't think I know what those questions are in my case.

Edited March 29, 2017 by Grangur

[Coilte]

[quote name='mikel' timestamp='1490793304' post='3268040']
Never had a tutor. Back in the day there was no such thing, not that I was aware of anyway. It was rock and roll and it was being made up on the spot. Learned to play bass the same way I learned the drums, by listening and practice. Going to a tutor would have made it too much like school, something I had to do, rather than breaking the rules and doing something that was "Ours" not the establishments. Never deliberately played a scale or felt the need to learn to read music. Still playing and loving it after 50 years.
[/quote]

At 62 years old, I learned exactly the same way as yourself. This did not stop me going for lessons later in life. I regard the time and money spent on lessons as a major benefit. I too am still playing...only better...since I took lessons.

[Coilte]

[quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1490793513' post='3268046']
And a good teacher will know what questions to ask to probe to get the right action plan together. I'm afraid I don't think I know what those questions are in my case.
[/quote]

Agreed. Playing the bass to a high degree and teaching others how to play, are two TOTALLY different skills.

[Sammers]

[quote name='Coilte' timestamp='1490792894' post='3268034']
No..not necessarily. Someone completely new to bass and learning to play, will not know where to start. All they know is that they want to learn to play. It is up to the teacher to find out what the pupil's goals are and then advise/teach accordingly. This is what I meant earlier when I mentioned the importance of getting a [i]good [/i]teacher. It is not enough to be a good player and know your stuff if you don't have the teaching skill.

IMO, if a teacher has to ask a pupil what to teach...it's time to look for another teacher.
[/quote]

I agree, after a year or so of lessons I came away with very little understanding of music as a whole. I could play loads of new licks and songs and my playing did improve a lot I still don't think I learnt too much proper info. We'd touched upon modes and the scales but never really how to implement them or what they actually meant to the music, I never knew the questions to ask to get the answers I needed either.

I've wanted to search out more lessons for just this reason but I guess my previous experience has put me off a little bit, a shame!
Not sure what my point was... haha

[ambient]

[quote name='Coilte' timestamp='1490792894' post='3268034']


No..not necessarily. Someone completely new to bass and learning to play, will not know where to start. All they know is that they want to learn to play. It is up to the teacher to find out what the pupil's goals are and then advise/teach accordingly. This is what I meant earlier when I mentioned the importance of getting a [i]good [/i]teacher. It is not enough to be a good player and know your stuff if you don't have the teaching skill.

IMO, if a teacher has to ask a pupil what to teach...it's time to look for another teacher.
[/quote]

I disagree, it's part of getting to know the student. You can't as a teacher assume the student knows something, the only way to find something out is to ask.

I wouldn't automatically assume a student wants to spend time learning to read for instance, so I would ask them. It's part of the question, what do YOU want to learn, it's after all their lesson and time and money, so it's not for me to tell them what I want to teach them, merely advise them.

[Coilte]

[quote name='Sammers' timestamp='1490794130' post='3268055'] I never knew the questions to ask to get the answers I needed either.[/quote]

Apart from asking a question(s) about something you are being taught, and don't understand, the only other question you [i]should[/i] need to ask a teacher is..."can you teach me to play the bass...". If the answer is .."yes"..then a good teacher will equip him/herself with the information (your goals, aspirations etc) needed to provide you with good constructive lessons.

[Coilte]

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1490794721' post='3268066']
I disagree, it's part of getting to know the student. You can't as a teacher assume the student knows something, the only way to find something out is to ask.

I wouldn't automatically assume a student wants to spend time learning to read for instance, so I would ask them. It's part of the question, what do YOU want to learn, it's after all their lesson and time and money, so it's not for me to tell them what I want to teach them, merely advise them.
[/quote]

Well...I did mention that asking a student what their goals and aspirations were are important. This is different to asking them what they want to learn. I agree that learning to read may not be appropriate for some. Once a teacher is equipped with the pupil's goals and aspirations, then it is his (the teacher's) job to teach the student what he [b]needs[/b] to learn.