Having a tutor

[ambient]

My eldest student is 79, he's absolutely no desire or ambition to play in a band. He just enjoys learning to play. His previous 'tutor', just spent 6 months teaching him bass lines from TAB. I started by showing him the notes, we progressed on to triads and we're now looking at walking bass. He's a huge Sinatra and jazz fan. Yesterday we spent an hour with him playing the melody to a couple of tunes, all of me and I've got you under my skin, I was playing the chords under him on my bass. The smile in his face, and him singing and dancing down the hall as he saw me out made my day.

[ambient]

[quote name='Coilte' timestamp='1490795310' post='3268084']


Well...I did mention that asking a student what their goals and aspirations were are important. This is different to asking them what they want to learn. I agree that learning to read may not be appropriate for some. Once a teacher is equipped with the pupil's goals and aspirations, then it is his (the teacher's) job to teach the student what he [b]needs[/b] to learn.
[/quote]

Needs to fulfill his ambitions, also what he wants to learn. One guy just comes to me for advice on playing lines that he's learning. He doesn't know anything about harmony, he has no knowledge about the fretboard or what notes he's playing, even, he doesn't want to learn that. So I sit with him and help him learn a bass line, he's happy, even if it goes completely against my own beliefs.

[Coilte]

[[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1490795786' post='3268092']
My eldest student is 79, he's absolutely no desire or ambition to play in a band. He just enjoys learning to play. His previous 'tutor', just spent 6 months teaching him bass lines from TAB. I started by showing him the notes, we progressed on to triads and we're now looking at walking bass. He's a huge Sinatra and jazz fan. Yesterday we spent an hour with him playing the melody to a couple of tunes, all of me and I've got you under my skin, I was playing the chords under him on my bass. The smile in his face, and him singing and dancing down the hall as he saw me out made my day.
[/quote]

Well done !! You sound like the ideal teacher.

[ambient]

[quote name='Coilte' timestamp='1490796206' post='3268104']
[

Well done !! You sound like the ideal teacher.
[/quote]

I wouldn't say that, but I'm maybe his.

[Coilte]

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1490796042' post='3268101']
Needs to fulfill his ambitions, also what he wants to learn. One guy just comes to me for advice on playing lines that he's learning. He doesn't know anything about harmony, he has no knowledge about the fretboard or what notes he's playing, even, he doesn't want to learn that. So I sit with him and help him learn a bass line, he's happy, even if it goes completely against my own beliefs.
[/quote]

I accept your point here. If a guy does not want to accept guidance, then there is nothing you can do about this, except to give him what he requires.

I am talking about the scenario where a guy buys a bass for the first time. Next day he goes for lessons expecting to be the next Jack Bruce over night. The teacher needs to incorporate a a balancing act to.. 1. Keep him motivated and interested enough to come back for more lessons. 2. Keep him on the straight and narrow road towards his goal.

[leftybassman392]

I would ALWAYS start a new student with a Q&A session. Asking the right questions is of course the key, and should be part of the basic skillset for anyone wanting to make a half-decent living as a tutor. You never know who's going to walk into your studio, so without an initial feel for what your student is hoping to achieve you have very little chance of being able to help them get the best from their time with you. It's not good enough IMHO to say not everybody knows what they want. They invariably do IME (even if they don't know it yet) and it's your job as a tutor to get some sort of handle on their motivation for appearing in front of you. Without goals the lessons will rarely go anywhere.

Couple of final points: occasionally you'll get students who turn out to want something you won't be able to give them, and - again IME - honesty is always the best policy. You'll lose the student, but better that than have them realise a couple of months down the line that they're not getting what they thought they were paying for. Also you will occasionally get personality clashes: doesn't necessarily mean anybody's done anything wrong, but sometimes teaching relationships just don't work.

EDIT TO ADD: Oh, and be on the lookout for unrealistic expectations. It'll end in tears if you don't look to enforce realistic goals and timescales.

Edited March 29, 2017 by leftybassman392

[ambient]

[quote name='Coilte' timestamp='1490796820' post='3268112']
I accept your point here. If a guy does not want to accept guidance, then there is nothing you can do about this, except to give him what he requires.

I am talking about the scenario where a guy buys a bass for the first time. Next day he goes for lessons expecting to be the next Jack Bruce over night. The teacher needs to incorporate a a balancing act to.. 1. Keep him motivated and interested enough to come back for more lessons. 2. Keep him on the straight and narrow road towards his goal.
[/quote]

Exactly.

'What do you want to learn', could equally be phrased as 'what do you want or expect to get from having lessons'. Or, 'why are you here sat in front of me ?'

There's a new guy that started with me yesterday evening. Like most people I ask, he said, well I've been playing for X years, and really don't have much knowledge of how what I'm doing works, I just learn a bass line from a recording or YouTube, or TAB.

I would then ask more questions to try and discover what they do know, which is often more than they think.

[Coilte]

[quote name='leftybassman392' timestamp='1490797716' post='3268121']
It's not good enough IMHO to say not everybody knows what they want. [/quote]

Just to be clear : Perhaps earlier, I should have said that not everyone knows what they.. [b]need[/b]. Of course everyone will know what they want as far as goals etc are concerned, but may lack the knowledge of what's required to achieve them. So they put their trust in the teacher to guide them on the learning journey.

[bassjim]

Learn some theory from a good teacher = very good idea. Then you can teach yourself.

[Coilte]

[quote name='bassjim' timestamp='1490799973' post='3268156']
Learn some theory from a good teacher = very good idea. Then you can teach yourself.
[/quote]

Agreed. However, for someone starting out, I think where a good teacher is really beneficial is on learning technique...especially SAFE technique. Youtube or the internet cannot observe and advise on your technique.

Obviously, a decent teacher will teach a little of every aspect of playing.

Some people (like myself) dip in and out of taking lessons, i.e. take say, a half a dozen...then go it alone for a while...then return for a top up. Rinse and repeat. Best of both worlds.

[crompers]

[quote name='Coilte' timestamp='1490802290' post='3268187']
Some people (like myself) dip in and out of taking lessons, i.e. take say, a half a dozen...then go it alone for a while...then return for a top up. Rinse and repeat. Best of both worlds.
[/quote]

I'm thinking I'll take this route

[ricksterphil]

[quote name='Geek99' timestamp='1490787384' post='3267950']
I did have a tutor and I would do it again. I don't have time at the moment but one day....
They spot things that you didnt notice (I swing when leading with my index finger, but am rock solid with my middle finger) and they do boost your confidence. One told me, when I was at a low point, that I was actually much better than I thought I was. We had just knocked out a scratch version of "Stand by Me" and despite never playing it before, I kept it together all the way though albeit with a couple of thin spots.
Because he was also a "good enough" drummer and guitarist he was able to quickly put together a scratch backing track and email it afterwards, so it was all very customised; however as Coilte says, it was to be the [i]right[/i] teacher for [b]you[/b].
[/quote]

Mind me asking who the teacher you used is....? I'm thinking of getting a few 'improver' lessons (I'm in Nottingham)

[Cato]

I'm entirely self taught in the pre youtube days.

As a result of which I have a fair few bad habits, the worst of which is playing with the thumb of my fretting hand over the neck.

I'm trying to break the habit as at some point I'd like to have serious crack at moving up to 5 or 6 strings, but after 25 odd years, it's coming very slowly.

Even just a couple of formal lessons, right at the start might have seen me avoid the issue.

[Grangur]

[quote name='Cato' timestamp='1490806325' post='3268227']
I'm entirely self taught in the pre youtube days.

As a result of which I have a fair few bad habits, the worst of which is playing with the thumb of my fretting hand over the neck.

I'm trying to break the habit as at some point I'd like to have serious crack at moving up to 5 or 6 strings, but after 25 odd years, it's coming very slowly.

Even just a couple of formal lessons, right at the start might have seen me avoid the issue.
[/quote]
Have you tried simply buying a 5 string and trying? You might find you don't have a problem as you cannot put your thumb over the top, unless you have massive hands.

[Cato]

[quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1490806689' post='3268230']

Have you tried simply buying a 5 string and trying? You might find you don't have a problem as you cannot put your thumb over the top, unless you have massive hands.
[/quote]

The biggest problem is that the thumb over the top is actually a big part of my muting technique on the E and A strings, switching to always playing with it on the back of the neck is going to require a bit of rethink of other aspects of my playing.

I think, eventually I will just go for a cheap 5 or 6 and try to work it out as I go along.

Edited March 29, 2017 by Cato

[Ashweb]

I'd definitely recommend anyone starting out to seek out the help of a tutor.

When I decided to learn bass, I had this fantastic idea of teaching myself from information available on the web and was soon swamped by the massive amount of information available. What was needed was some form of structure which initially I got from buying the Bass for Dummies book but found this a little heavy going and sought out a 1-2-1 lesson with a real person. This is the way to go, for me at least, as having someone there to pick out all the bad habits and poor technique I'd acquired in a relatively short time and show me correct technique was great although I do still slip into bad habits, especially when learning new things. Also, as mentioned above, it's good to have a bit of encouragement from someone when things aren't going well.

Started off in Southampton with a fantastic tutor who I still keep up with via Skype, I don't think she's on here but can pass on contact details if anyone in the area is interested; recently relocated to Cardiff with work and have just started with Jon Caulfield who is on here. Had my second lesson with him last night and I can see this working very well.

All of which reminds me, I need to go do some practice...

[Telebass]

[quote name='dood' timestamp='1490792591' post='3268026'] Any teacher worth their salt would have no problem with this. Plenty of my students have no aspiration to play in a band. Not inclined or simply wouldn't have the time to devote to it. They get the same 110% from me every lesson. [/quote]

Nonetheless, the few lessons I took were[i] utterly dependent [/i]on the fact of being a performing player. And this was with a nationally recognised organisation. Doing it for pure self interest would have lost me my place on the course.

EDIT: I would dearly love to have a shedload of 1-2-1 lessons - not dissing the idea at all!

Edited March 29, 2017 by Telebass

[mikel]

[quote name='Coilte' timestamp='1490793651' post='3268049']
At 62 years old, I learned exactly the same way as yourself. This did not stop me going for lessons later in life. I regard the time and money spent on lessons as a major benefit. I too am still playing...only better...since I took lessons.
[/quote]

Good, I am glad it helped with the issues you had. I enjoy what I play and I am perfectly happy. I still learn new stuff, recently got into Fusion, I just prefer to do it my way, not the way someone else thinks is right. Each to there own.

[timmo]

My first tutor i had didnt even own a bass
He was a guitar player. He never embraced any technology. I stayed with him for around 6 months. I found a proper qualified bass player. The difference is huge. I had never heard of the chromatic scale and intervals. Neither had I heard of modes. Only problem is, I have a 70 mile round trip as bass players who teach seem thin on the ground by me.

[Coilte]

[quote name='mikel' timestamp='1490816741' post='3268338']
I just prefer to do it my way, not the way someone else thinks is right. Each to there own.
[/quote]

Yes indeed...each to their own... but I'd say the reason why most people take lessons is not because someone else thinks it's the right to do so. It is because they consider that a teacher's experience in both teaching and performing is a priceless asset to have at their disposal.

Once you learn the necessary skills from a teacher, then the sky is the limit to go out and do your own thing. Also, I think most would agree that you learn much quicker with a teacher. Nothing wrong with going it alone, but IMO it involves trial and error (not a bad thing in itself...but you often have to back track).

[ambient]

You do need to 'shop around', and find the right tutor. This may depend on what it is that you want to learn, and improve on.

I had the one guy from when I was about 15. I used to travel to London once a month with my parents, and have a 2 hour lesson with him. He then became the programme leader on my degree course, and I continued having private lessons from him. He's still a very good friend of mine.

When I started to get more into soloing and more advanced styles, and 6 string playing, then I sought out another tutor, this was Steve Lawson, the guy who ended up having a major influence on my playing.

[Geek99]

[quote name='ricksterphil' timestamp='1490804050' post='3268205']


Mind me asking who the teacher you used is....? I'm thinking of getting a few 'improver' lessons (I'm in Nottingham)
[/quote]
Not at all
Kev at zebra musik in Ilkeston although that was a few years ago
Chris at crazy train in annesley more recently

Edited March 30, 2017 by Geek99

[FuNkShUi]

[quote name='Ashweb' timestamp='1490812768' post='3268299']
recently relocated to Cardiff with work and have just started with Jon Caulfield who is on here. Had my second lesson with him last night and I can see this working very well.

All of which reminds me, I need to go do some practice...
[/quote]

You're in good hands. Tell him Kert said to ask about learning the floating thumb technique

[mikel]

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1490822299' post='3268401']
You do need to 'shop around', and find the right tutor. This may depend on what it is that you want to learn, and improve on.

I had the one guy from when I was about 15. I used to travel to London once a month with my parents, and have a 2 hour lesson with him. He then became the programme leader on my degree course, and I continued having private lessons from him. He's still a very good friend of mine.

When I started to get more into soloing and more advanced styles, and 6 string playing, then I sought out another tutor, this was Steve Lawson, the guy who ended up having a major influence on my playing.
[/quote]

After 50+ years of playing I think I would have given it up by now If I was not entirely happy with my ability to play what I want, under my own steam. Still getting interested in new genres and picking up bits and bobs from music that interests me. I learn what I feel I can use and ignore what holds no interest for me personally.

[blue]

I get the one on one value. But can't guys learn pretty much any aspect of playing bass with all the on-line offerings and YouTube clips?

Blue