Noisy isolated bass tracks

[Twincam]

I have just been listening to some isolated bass tracks. Any that have all the string, fret and finger noises in and then comparing them with full track or even my playing.

They always makes me feel better about my playing tbh.
But I've always wondered what is the exact science of a very noisy and sometimes sloppy bass track, that in the mix sounds great?
Is it a case of certain frequencies being lost in the mix, but then the added frequencies of all the extra string noise etc helps it cut through?
Or maybe the more noisy players are naturally using more mids?

I would be interested in hearing examples of a very rounded clean bass tone in the mix and then the same mix but with a more mid sounding, rough and noisy bass track.

Ha just a thought imagine a Chris Squire clanky low action tone on a Motown recording and then a Jamerson tone, high action, flats on a Yes track. Would they still sound as good?

[bazzbass]

yeah it always surprises me too, and makes me feel better about my own playing

I think the clank and noise helps it stand out in the final mix, much like how distortion helps a bass line stand out.

[cheddatom]

Imagine a live band in a room. The bassist has a fairly even tone over the frequencies. When he's playing on his own you can clearly hear the finger and fret noise, but then so can he so he plays cleaner. As soon as the cymbals and guitar kick in, you're not going to hear anything in that 2.5Khz and up range coming from the bass rig. That's because these other instruments are louder in this frequency range.

Obviously if the bassist wants to be heard in this range, he can use EQ, compression, dirt etc. to cut through up there, but then the loudest parts are going to be the attack of the note, not the finger noise

It's the same when you're mixing in the studio. I always have a very different tone in a mix for the bass when it's on its own in a mix. That's why I like to use pedals live, so that I can replicate what I do in the studio

Edited April 5, 2017 by cheddatom

[SH73]

I've recently recorded a bass for a song.The bass alone sounds sloppy but in the mix it cuts through and sounds great.
I love listening to isolated bass tracks.They prove that the bass doesn't need to be over complicated.

[Elfrasho]

Every musician should spend an hour or two finding isolated bass tracks of famous tunes just to gwt rhe sound and feel of how they were played. When recording alot of people hear the dry bass track and thinks it sounds awful and won't Bruce that it will work.

What i do find amazing is some vocal dry tracks that don't sound great, or have serious headphone bleed... but end up alright! Studio guys are magicians sometimes!

[stingrayPete1977]

The blood sugar sex magik ones are really noisy with lots of drop ins yet the album is really nicely mixed with plenty of sonic space around everything. Hard to get my head around.

[ped]

I love a bit of clank and buzz, it helps make a smooth baseline feel velvety and rich. And yes it helps it stand out in the mix too.

[crompers]

For some it is definitely a part of their style, Geezer Butler for instance.

[martthebass]

Definitely noticed this sort of thing on gigs. For example, I was in a fairly large pub on Saturday and had an awful sound on stage for some reason and I was all backline, nothing though the desk. No matter how I EQ'd I couldn't dial out the harsh middy sound I had. Did the best that I could and decided to compromise. During the gig I went out front with the wireless pack and noticed I had a great sound in the mix...just the right level of punch and definition and no harshness whatsoever.

[project_c]

It's just other sounds filling the space in those frequencies. Mixing music and getting it to sound balanced is hard. If you have a DAW, it's worth recording a bass line to a click track in isolation, and then adding other instruments one by one to see how they affect the bass tone. It's one of the reasons engineering requires such skill. It's amazing how bad unmixed tracks can sound.

Also engineering and recording technology has come a long way since those old tracks were recorded, in a modern recording situation those mistakes would be a lot more noticeable. (And would probably be edited out).

[Chris2112]

Once the mix is filled out, you lose the clank and buzz of 'poor' technique in amongst everything else while the fundamental remains strong.

Of course, I believe the ear is led by the music and as you engage with a song, you'll follow the chords and instrumentation with your ear and take it in as a whole, but the minutiae of the performance, especially the non-musical stuff like a clanking fret buzz or a squeaky bass drum pedal, can easily be missed because it's not what you're listening for.

[Chris2112]

Whoops, double post.

Edited April 5, 2017 by Chris2112

[chrismuzz]

I'm far from the tightest player out there, but everything I've recorded sounds (in my opinion) great! It also took me listening to isolated tracks by famous bass players to be confident in my abilities

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='Chris2112' timestamp='1491403980' post='3272768']
Once the mix is filled out, you lose the clank and buzz of 'poor' technique in amongst everything else while the fundamental remains strong.

Of course, I believe the ear is led by the music and as you engage with a song, you'll follow the chords and instrumentation with your ear and take it in as a whole, but the minutiae of the performance, especially the non-musical stuff like a clanking fret buzz or a squeaky bass drum pedal, can easily be missed because it's not what you're listening for.
[/quote]

The bass players I know without 'poor' technique are great players but rarely pull off a properly convincing rock track, tickling a status king bass doesn't work on an AC/DC cover for example.

[TrevorR]

[quote name='Elfrasho' timestamp='1491383778' post='3272536']
Every musician should spend an hour or two finding isolated bass tracks of famous tunes just to gwt rhe sound and feel of how they were played. When recording alot of people hear the dry bass track and thinks it sounds awful and won't Bruce that it will work.

What i do find amazing is some vocal dry tracks that don't sound great, or have serious headphone bleed... but end up alright! Studio guys are magicians sometimes!
[/quote]
Since I started listening to isolated tracks I've also been amazed at some of the "sloppy technique" and "bad sound" on some classic bass lines. I must confess I've also wondered whether the clanks and scratches and string noises, even though they're seemingly inaudible in the mix actuallay help the feel of the track. You know, make it seem a bit more "live" and "in the moment". Add a bit of excitement to the track and stop it sounding sterile and "studio like"? It would only be a subtle psychological effect but who knows.

On a tangent, another isolated track education is listening to Karen Carpenter's singing on those familiar Carpenters hits. The vocals can slip by you a bit within the smooth production of the track. However, listening to her on isolated tracks shows what an absolutely amazing singer she was. The mixture of tone, control, precision, fluidity and emotional communication in her singing is astonishing
. And she always considered voice as her "second" instrument after drums!

[Steve Browning]

There is a site somewhere (you'll have to Google) where you can get the tracks for various Queen songs. John Deacon is DI'd and then mic'd on a 12" speaker and an 18 in his Acoustic cabs. Very interesting to have a play with those and hear the difference in the sound. I always DI and mic after listening to those tracks.

[project_c]

There's also the whole thing of music being a form of art and self expression. If you took a great painting and looked at individual brush strokes out of context, they also might look sloppy, but in the context of the whole thing they fit perfectly. A perfect clean straight line might be technically impressive but it might not be what the painting needs.

[miles'tone]

[quote name='project_c' timestamp='1491466979' post='3273194']
There's also the whole thing of music being a form of art and self expression. If you took a great painting and looked at individual brush strokes out of context, they also might look sloppy, but in the context of the whole thing they fit perfectly. A perfect clean straight line might be technically impressive but it might not be what the painting needs.
[/quote]
Well said!

[Lozz196]

Many of the isolated bass tracks I`ve heard have been clanky, gainy and middy, yet they all sound great in their respective mixes.

[gjones]

I remember the last time I recorded. I listened back to the bass track with just the drums and I my gast was flabbered when I heard all the ghost notes I was playing throughout the bass line. It sounded very messy but once the rest of the band came in it all blended in just fine.