Great Gig, Great Crowd, Great Business $$, But We Don't Want You Back

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[quote name='arthurhenry' timestamp='1491663060' post='3274648']
The old adage of "Play stuff they can dance too, sell more beer; Happy landlady/lord" is sometimes too simple to be true. Over the years I have found that the personal taste of the venue owner has much to do with whether or not you are re-booked.
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Again, must be cultural. Over here the LLs I know, their personal taste is a genre known as "Money".

Blue

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[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1491662173' post='3274642']


I've found a lot of managers are too busy doing whatever they do to be replying to emails explaining why they don't want you.
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They don't have to explain, just say "No".

Blue

[kodiakblair]

[quote name='dmccombe7' timestamp='1491646836' post='3274529']
That's just a Falkirk thing
Couldn't help myself there.
Sorry.
Dave
[/quote]I think you may be fibbing there Dave If no then be glad it's only us bairns affected.

[blue]

[quote name='Number6' timestamp='1491663016' post='3274647']
Mostly asked back.....our gig last night the Landlord said was one of the best live music nights they've had.....i'll take that kind of compliment any day
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Did you rebook, if yes, excellent.

Blue

[blue]

Even when the turn out is poor due to bad weather conditions, a band playing a new club for the first time will take the hit.

Blue

[TimR]

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1491671240' post='3274705']


That's complicated. Over here they generally don't book rock bands in restaurants where people are sitting down eating. The landlords don't listen to anything except the sound of the cash register opening and closing.

Blue
[/quote]

No. We have clubs with background music quite a lot.

I went to a wine bar last week they had a jazz band. A rock band would not have worked. People were there to socialise.

It's a cultural thing.

[TimR]

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1491671869' post='3274710']


Again, must be cultural. Over here the LLs I know, their personal taste is a genre known as "Money".

Blue
[/quote]

Yes. In the UK people put a lot of stock in doing things they like over making money.

We have a long history of a socialist society compared to the US. We don't need money as much as you guys do. A lot of the things we need are provided by the state from the taxes of rich people.

It's a fairly unique society. You should visit.

[blue]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1491674591' post='3274732']


No. We have clubs with background music quite a lot.

I went to a wine bar last week they had a jazz band. A rock band would not have worked. People were there to socialise.

It's a cultural thing.
[/quote]

Yeah, well I mean we have those places and they'll feature a jazz trio or an acoustic duo. No Marshall stacks.😁

Agreed

Blue

[blue]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1491674928' post='3274738']


Yes. In the UK people put a lot of stock in doing things they like over making money.

We have a long history of a socialist society compared to the US. We don't need money as much as you guys do. A lot of the things we need are provided by the state from the taxes of rich people.

It's a fairly unique society. You should visit.[/quote]

I definitely should.

Over here if you don't have money they want you to die. And it's getting worse everyday.

Blue

[blue]

And then there's the club owner that wants to boost up the revenue stream and wants to try out live music.

He trys out a band on a Friday night and it bombs.

Like a miracle was going to happen after giving it one shot.

It takes a lot of time to establish yourself as a place that features live music. It won't happen overnight.

Blue

Edited April 8, 2017 by blue

[TimR]

Yes. My local tried an open mic night midweek. The pub is 100m from my house. I knew nothing about it until I just happened to walk in one night and see the PA.

He knows who I am and didn't even ask if I'd ask my friends to come down.

[leschirons]

Played a pub/restaurant by the river here a few years back. Usually all closed by 11.30pm. At 1am, we had 100 punters in front dancing and singing, another 50 along the bridge above us. Owner admitted it was the best night and takings in the 4 years he'd had the place and gave us an extra 20% on our fee. Never got another gig as the guy said he wasn't really into covers bands.!!! And there's me thinking he was running a business😂

He's since had original acts that have cost him more who've played to 6 people.

[dlloyd]

[quote name='arthurhenry' timestamp='1491663060' post='3274648']
The old adage of "Play stuff they can dance too, sell more beer; Happy landlady/lord" is sometimes too simple to be true. Over the years I have found that the personal taste of the venue owner has much to do with whether or not you are re-booked.
[/quote]

Are these freeholds or managed pubs? Managers working for a chain draw a salary. It makes no difference to them if they are making steady business or if they are packing the place out...

[ivansc]

My favourite pub gig closed as a live venue years ago,but was a cracker. Minute "stage" area but always a good crowd & never any issues with the landlord. Wednesday night was his night off, so he only ever booked bands HE liked. Result was that if your face fit, you had a guaranteed four or five gigs a year there, well paid and with a couple of drinks thrown in.
Sad day when he decided to retire and sold the pub.
We miss you, Gerry!

[grandad]

I've played a few venues who wanted to re-book us but we declined.

I remember one particular pub where the drunkeness and general bad behaviour were shocking. My brother, (rhythm guitar), was molested by a young lady who kept feeling his bottom. He couldn't concentrate on his harmonies. Beery-breathed wannabees asking to have a go on your guitar. No stage, young ladies suddenly appearing at your side in the gents and nonchalantly chatting to you about their favourite songs as you take a pee, inebriated punters trying to grab microphones and sing whilst spilling beer over monitors, and much bad language.

On the other hand, the one time we tried a showcase at a WMC we were last on, got everyone up dancing and was asked to play on longer as folks were having a good time. All our details were taken with promises of definite bookings in the near future. Never heard a thing back.

I think the secret to getting regular work at the venues you want to play at is to have someone hustling for you. Whether it's a band member, manager or agent no matter.

[blue]

[quote name='grandad' timestamp='1491724705' post='3274953']

I think the secret to getting regular work at the venues you want to play at is to have someone hustling for you. Whether it's a band member, manager or agent no matter.[/quote]

I couldn't agree more. If you want real work you have to have more than good musicians in a band at the local level.


Blue

Edited April 9, 2017 by blue

[blue]

Here's another reason why local bands might not get rebooked after a sucessful first gig at a new club.

Not being professional and complaining about anything.


Blue

Edited April 9, 2017 by blue

[PaulWarning]

change of ownership is usually the reason we don't get asked, pub companies get through an alarming number of managers, one pub we played at got through 4 different mangers and we had to prove ourselves to every one of them, the latest one has decide to stop live music altogether, another one the Tap and Tumbler in Nottingham used to book us on a regular basis, always a good night, new manger came in said we were sh*t and refused to book us, he went, new manager thinks we're great.
What you have to remember is pub management is a crap overworked under paid job, mostly, so only a bloody idiot would take it on, too many of them book the bands they like and not what the customers like.

Edited April 9, 2017 by PaulWarning

[FinnDave]

I'm the gig hustler for the Wirebirds, but after 4 years I am getting sick of it, an increasing number of our gigs are coming in via agents/promoters, and I am happy to let them to the leg work and paperwork. OK, so they take a cut, but without them, we wouldn't have the gig in the first place, so we still get a whole lot more for the gig than we would have got sat at home.

[arthurhenry]

[quote name='dlloyd' timestamp='1491683507' post='3274825']
Are these freeholds or managed pubs? Managers working for a chain draw a salary. It makes no difference to them if they are making steady business or if they are packing the place out...
[/quote]

Both, but I would say mostly freeholds. Perhaps LLs of these places have more of a vision of exactly what they want, whereas Managers for a chain don't really care if they like the band or not.

[FinnDave]

We play a mix of managed/owned pubs, and there doesn't seem to be any correlation between their musical taste/business sense and whether they own the place or just manage it. We've met good and bad in both roles.

[blue]

Here's another one that can get you in "not being asked back" status.

The band member that assumes alcoholic beverages for the band are comped or complimentary. He has a couple, the drinks are not comped and it gets back to management.

Blue

[itsmedunc]

[quote name='gjones' timestamp='1491608541' post='3274351']
We played a Saturday every month at a venue, for 4 years. Sold a sh*t load of booze and filled the place up (you have to pay to get in). The crowd loved us and danced the night away. The owner, loved the money we made for him (even though he was a Jazzer and probably wasn't really into our music) and kept on booking us, as we pulled a crowd.

Unfortunately he passed away and his daughter took over the bar. Since then we haven't been booked for any gigs and she ignores our emails. Now she books muso Jazz bands, which are not going to appeal to an under 30s crowd, on a Saturday night.

Good luck to her, I hope she doesn't go out of business..
[/quote]

We played at a home town pub, it used to be very busy but the landlords daughter took it over and made it into a dance sort of rave pub? Weird as ravers were renowned for not drinking! Anyway, St George's Day we played and it was unbelievably busy from 11am. So much so that, although we were on free beer all day, we went to the local Wetherspoons to get served! We played and then they shut the gig down, turned it into a rave thing again. Everybody left and about 14 kid 'ravers' turned up and we're incredibly obnoxious to the folk that were left. We decided not to play there again...

[blue]

Interesting discussion. It's tough for me to get a consensus on why under certain unknown circumstances when bands do well but are not asked back.

I guess forgetting to ask for future dates could be a reason.And I can see that happening with certain bands. Musicians are generally not known as being astute business people.

Money rules in the States unless you piss someone off, complain about something, or behave in an unprofessional manner.

And that change in ownership or management applys to the States too.

Blue

Edited April 10, 2017 by blue

[TimR]

[quote name='dlloyd' timestamp='1491683507' post='3274825']


Are these freeholds or managed pubs? Managers working for a chain draw a salary. It makes no difference to them if they are making steady business or if they are packing the place out...
[/quote]

It makes quite a bit of difference. If they make a lot of money, their rent increases. It's a weird business model.