How to quickly tell what key a song is in?

[danonearth]

How to quickly tell what key a song is in?

I am just starting to jam with several groups, and one thing I have noticed is that nobody seems to know what key they are in - not even the singers! I try and guess from the chords, but it can often be several keys that are possible for a 3 or 4 chord song

Do you have any advice for quickly guessing a key (without having to memorise every possible scale? Often it is 'on the fly' as I figure out the chords from watching a guitar player...

Thanks!

[Dandelion]

Usually the first Chord played indicates the key of the song.

[danonearth]

[quote name='Dandelion' timestamp='1491643390' post='3274474']
Usually the first Chord played indicates the key of the song.
[/quote]

Thanks Dandelion,

Yes, I usually go by that rule, but today we played ‘Stand by Me’ by John Lennon, and the first chord is G, so I assumed G, (which worked fine for the most part) but it is actually in Em - meaning my ‘root’ should have been on the E instead of the G - no big deal, but it just took me by surprise when I later looked it up…

[chris_b]

Don't know what you mean by "root". In Stand By Me you play the chords.

[FinnDave]

[quote name='danonearth' timestamp='1491643784' post='3274486']
Thanks Dandelion,

Yes, I usually go by that rule, but today we played ‘Stand by Me’ by John Lennon,
[/quote]

John Lennon?? Thought it was originally sung by Ben E. King, and written by him with Leiber & Stoller. Unless there're two song with that name.

[bazzbass]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1491644692' post='3274492']
Don't know what you mean by "root". In Stand By Me you play the chords.
[/quote]

you've never heard this term used in relation to scale notes?

Bass players don't play chords in Stand By Me. They play chord tones, made up of the Root third and fifth of the major scale for major chords.

[PaulWarning]

[quote name='FinnDave' timestamp='1491645342' post='3274501']
John Lennon?? Thought it was originally sung by Ben E. King, and written by him with Leiber & Stoller. Unless there're two song with that name.
[/quote]Lennon covered it on his Rock and Roll album, think he had a hit with it as well

[FinnDave]

[quote name='PaulWarning' timestamp='1491651453' post='3274561']
Lennon covered it on his Rock and Roll album, think he had a hit with it as well
[/quote]

Didn't know that, never been much of a fan of his, and never really listened to hits! Only know the song because I play it with a band from time to time.

[Hobbayne]

[quote name='danonearth' timestamp='1491643784' post='3274486']
Thanks Dandelion,

Yes, I usually go by that rule, but today we played ‘Stand by Me’ by John Lennon, and the first chord is G, so I assumed G, (which worked fine for the most part) but it is actually in Em - meaning my ‘root’ should have been on the E instead of the G - no big deal, but it just took me by surprise when I later looked it up…
[/quote]

It is in G so the relative minor is Em. The same notes occur in each scale.

[markstuk]

[quote name='Hobbayne' timestamp='1491658235' post='3274616']
It is in G so the relative minor is Em. The same notes occur in each scale.
[/quote]

From the versions I've looked at on Youtube, the Lennon version is in A Maj.. The second chord is F#m (the relative minor of A)

So I suspect you were playing it in G Maj..

Edited April 8, 2017 by markstuk

[markstuk]

[quote name='Dandelion' timestamp='1491643390' post='3274474']
Usually the first Chord played indicates the key of the song.
[/quote]

More reliably the last chord but a little late if you're jamming..

[markstuk]

[quote name='bazztard' timestamp='1491648571' post='3274544']
you've never heard this term used in relation to scale notes?

Bass players don't play chords in Stand By Me. They play chord tones, made up of the Root third and fifth of the major scale for major chords.
[/quote]

More correctly the "Tonic".. If E minor and G Major use the same notes, how can you tell the difference ? This is part of the OP's question.. It's the "home" note basically (it's actually a bit more complicated than this but it's a good place to start).. In stand by me's OP's case it';s pretty easy, it starts and ends on G Major... I've just played it on the piano with G Em C D G in the right hand and E C# A B E in the left hand and it sounds very dark (and weird) ..

[Grangur]

[quote name='Dandelion' timestamp='1491643390' post='3274474']
Usually the first Chord played indicates the key of the song.
[/quote]

If it's a 1,4,5, such as a blues this will be right. Would this follow if it's a 2,5,1? I guess not?

The way I know of to do this is by the sound of the tune. Every tune, when ending will sound right when it 'resolves' to a certain note or chord. That note that it resolves to is the chord thst it is in.

[Bilbo]

[quote name='markstuk' timestamp='1491659253' post='3274623']


More reliably the last chord but a little late if you're jamming..
[/quote]

Even the first chord from the bar before the last one

[Horizontalste]

I was taught to pick out the tonic by ear, so as you listen imagine one note that represents the whole song & hum it.
If you get it right the note you're humming will fit right through the song & will feel spot on when the "one chord" is played. So for example if you're humming an E & the "one chord" roles around & happens to be a major then bingo, you're in E.
It's easy to practice & worthwhile in my opinion, you can practice picking out the tonic while listening to the radio or whatever. Try it!

[Grangur]

[quote name='Horizontalste' timestamp='1491726715' post='3274978']
I was taught to pick out the tonic by ear, so as you listen imagine one note that represents the whole song & hum it.
If you get it right the note you're humming will fit right through the song & will feel spot on when the "one chord" is played. So for example if you're humming an E & the "one chord" roles around & happens to be a major then bingo, you're in E.
It's easy to practice & worthwhile in my opinion, you can practice picking out the tonic while listening to the radio or whatever. Try it!
[/quote]
Very true, assuming we can hum or sing in tune.

[Horizontalste]

[quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1491726895' post='3274982']

Very true, assuming we can hum or sing in tune.
[/quote]
Ha, you're right & if we can't we've highlighted a development opportunity :-)

[Grangur]

[quote name='Horizontalste' timestamp='1491728509' post='3274997']

Ha, you're right & if we can't we've highlighted a development opportunity :-)
[/quote]
... and a practice regime.

[dand666]

1 6 4 5 - Stand By Me. That chord progression is often known as the 50's progression or 'Ice Cream Changes'.

[Bobthedog]

When at home and still trying to develop my ear, I just slowly run my finger up the E string until I find the note that fits the one chord root.

It works for simple stuff.

[danonearth]

[quote name='dand666' timestamp='1491816525' post='3275494']
1 6 4 5 - Stand By Me. That chord progression is often known as the 50's progression or 'Ice Cream Changes'.
[/quote]

Lol! I'll never think of 'Stand by Me' the same again... I'll think of Ice Cream!

Thanks everyone for all the great tips & ideas

cheers,
Dan

[dand666]

Think of Ice Cream for all these songs as well:

Every Breath You Take
Chain Gang
Crocodile Rock
Enola Gay
Happiness is a Warm Gun
Mandy
The Man comes Around
There is a light that never goes out
Twistin the night away
Nothings gonna stop us now
All I want for xmas is you

And thousands more...

And you saved yourself loads of time! Usually at a gig the band leader will call a key, then go from there :-)

[Mottlefeeder]

Anf other point that may help

Keep the verse, chorus and bridge separate in your head. If one of them has a keychange, it can throw you off what you thought you had nailed down. Taking this example from our set list, I could not identify the key, but another musician pointed out that it was two keys (it's Tom Jones - Delilah)

Verse: Dm /A7 /Dm /A7 /D7 /Gm /Dm /A7 /Dm /C7 /
Chorus: F /C7 /F /F7 /Bb /Gm /F /C7 /F /A7 /

There is more information in this thread - http://basschat.co.uk/topic/288025-here-are-the-chords-but-im-on-capo-4/

David