danonearth Posted April 8, 2017 Share Posted April 8, 2017 How to quickly tell what key a song is in? I am just starting to jam with several groups, and one thing I have noticed is that nobody seems to know what key they are in - not even the singers! I try and guess from the chords, but it can often be several keys that are possible for a 3 or 4 chord song Do you have any advice for quickly guessing a key (without having to memorise every possible scale? Often it is 'on the fly' as I figure out the chords from watching a guitar player... Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandelion Posted April 8, 2017 Share Posted April 8, 2017 Usually the first Chord played indicates the key of the song. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danonearth Posted April 8, 2017 Author Share Posted April 8, 2017 [quote name='Dandelion' timestamp='1491643390' post='3274474'] Usually the first Chord played indicates the key of the song. [/quote] Thanks Dandelion, Yes, I usually go by that rule, but today we played ‘Stand by Me’ by John Lennon, and the first chord is G, so I assumed G, (which worked fine for the most part) but it is actually in Em - meaning my ‘root’ should have been on the E instead of the G - no big deal, but it just took me by surprise when I later looked it up… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted April 8, 2017 Share Posted April 8, 2017 Don't know what you mean by "root". In Stand By Me you play the chords. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FinnDave Posted April 8, 2017 Share Posted April 8, 2017 [quote name='danonearth' timestamp='1491643784' post='3274486'] Thanks Dandelion, Yes, I usually go by that rule, but today we played ‘Stand by Me’ by John Lennon, [/quote] John Lennon?? Thought it was originally sung by Ben E. King, and written by him with Leiber & Stoller. Unless there're two song with that name. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazzbass Posted April 8, 2017 Share Posted April 8, 2017 [quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1491644692' post='3274492'] Don't know what you mean by "root". In Stand By Me you play the chords. [/quote] you've never heard this term used in relation to scale notes? Bass players don't play chords in Stand By Me. They play chord tones, made up of the Root third and fifth of the major scale for major chords. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulWarning Posted April 8, 2017 Share Posted April 8, 2017 [quote name='FinnDave' timestamp='1491645342' post='3274501'] John Lennon?? Thought it was originally sung by Ben E. King, and written by him with Leiber & Stoller. Unless there're two song with that name. [/quote]Lennon covered it on his Rock and Roll album, think he had a hit with it as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FinnDave Posted April 8, 2017 Share Posted April 8, 2017 [quote name='PaulWarning' timestamp='1491651453' post='3274561'] Lennon covered it on his Rock and Roll album, think he had a hit with it as well [/quote] Didn't know that, never been much of a fan of his, and never really listened to hits! Only know the song because I play it with a band from time to time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobbayne Posted April 8, 2017 Share Posted April 8, 2017 [quote name='danonearth' timestamp='1491643784' post='3274486'] Thanks Dandelion, Yes, I usually go by that rule, but today we played ‘Stand by Me’ by John Lennon, and the first chord is G, so I assumed G, (which worked fine for the most part) but it is actually in Em - meaning my ‘root’ should have been on the E instead of the G - no big deal, but it just took me by surprise when I later looked it up… [/quote] It is in G so the relative minor is Em. The same notes occur in each scale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markstuk Posted April 8, 2017 Share Posted April 8, 2017 (edited) [quote name='Hobbayne' timestamp='1491658235' post='3274616'] It is in G so the relative minor is Em. The same notes occur in each scale. [/quote] From the versions I've looked at on Youtube, the Lennon version is in A Maj.. The second chord is F#m (the relative minor of A) So I suspect you were playing it in G Maj.. Edited April 8, 2017 by markstuk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markstuk Posted April 8, 2017 Share Posted April 8, 2017 [quote name='Dandelion' timestamp='1491643390' post='3274474'] Usually the first Chord played indicates the key of the song. [/quote] More reliably the last chord but a little late if you're jamming.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markstuk Posted April 8, 2017 Share Posted April 8, 2017 [quote name='bazztard' timestamp='1491648571' post='3274544'] you've never heard this term used in relation to scale notes? Bass players don't play chords in Stand By Me. They play chord tones, made up of the Root third and fifth of the major scale for major chords. [/quote] More correctly the "Tonic".. If E minor and G Major use the same notes, how can you tell the difference ? This is part of the OP's question.. It's the "home" note basically (it's actually a bit more complicated than this but it's a good place to start).. In stand by me's OP's case it';s pretty easy, it starts and ends on G Major... I've just played it on the piano with G Em C D G in the right hand and E C# A B E in the left hand and it sounds very dark (and weird) .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grangur Posted April 8, 2017 Share Posted April 8, 2017 [quote name='Dandelion' timestamp='1491643390' post='3274474'] Usually the first Chord played indicates the key of the song. [/quote] If it's a 1,4,5, such as a blues this will be right. Would this follow if it's a 2,5,1? I guess not? The way I know of to do this is by the sound of the tune. Every tune, when ending will sound right when it 'resolves' to a certain note or chord. That note that it resolves to is the chord thst it is in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted April 8, 2017 Share Posted April 8, 2017 [quote name='markstuk' timestamp='1491659253' post='3274623'] More reliably the last chord but a little late if you're jamming.. [/quote] Even the first chord from the bar before the last one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horizontalste Posted April 9, 2017 Share Posted April 9, 2017 I was taught to pick out the tonic by ear, so as you listen imagine one note that represents the whole song & hum it. If you get it right the note you're humming will fit right through the song & will feel spot on when the "one chord" is played. So for example if you're humming an E & the "one chord" roles around & happens to be a major then bingo, you're in E. It's easy to practice & worthwhile in my opinion, you can practice picking out the tonic while listening to the radio or whatever. Try it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grangur Posted April 9, 2017 Share Posted April 9, 2017 [quote name='Horizontalste' timestamp='1491726715' post='3274978'] I was taught to pick out the tonic by ear, so as you listen imagine one note that represents the whole song & hum it. If you get it right the note you're humming will fit right through the song & will feel spot on when the "one chord" is played. So for example if you're humming an E & the "one chord" roles around & happens to be a major then bingo, you're in E. It's easy to practice & worthwhile in my opinion, you can practice picking out the tonic while listening to the radio or whatever. Try it! [/quote] Very true, assuming we can hum or sing in tune. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horizontalste Posted April 9, 2017 Share Posted April 9, 2017 [quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1491726895' post='3274982'] Very true, assuming we can hum or sing in tune. [/quote] Ha, you're right & if we can't we've highlighted a development opportunity :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grangur Posted April 9, 2017 Share Posted April 9, 2017 [quote name='Horizontalste' timestamp='1491728509' post='3274997'] Ha, you're right & if we can't we've highlighted a development opportunity :-) [/quote] ... and a practice regime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dand666 Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 1 6 4 5 - Stand By Me. That chord progression is often known as the 50's progression or 'Ice Cream Changes'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobthedog Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 When at home and still trying to develop my ear, I just slowly run my finger up the E string until I find the note that fits the one chord root. It works for simple stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danonearth Posted April 11, 2017 Author Share Posted April 11, 2017 [quote name='dand666' timestamp='1491816525' post='3275494'] 1 6 4 5 - Stand By Me. That chord progression is often known as the 50's progression or 'Ice Cream Changes'. [/quote] Lol! I'll never think of 'Stand by Me' the same again... I'll think of Ice Cream! Thanks everyone for all the great tips & ideas cheers, Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dand666 Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 Think of Ice Cream for all these songs as well: Every Breath You Take Chain Gang Crocodile Rock Enola Gay Happiness is a Warm Gun Mandy The Man comes Around There is a light that never goes out Twistin the night away Nothings gonna stop us now All I want for xmas is you And thousands more... And you saved yourself loads of time! Usually at a gig the band leader will call a key, then go from there :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mottlefeeder Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 Anf other point that may help Keep the verse, chorus and bridge separate in your head. If one of them has a keychange, it can throw you off what you thought you had nailed down. Taking this example from our set list, I could not identify the key, but another musician pointed out that it was two keys (it's Tom Jones - Delilah) Verse: Dm /A7 /Dm /A7 /D7 /Gm /Dm /A7 /Dm /C7 / Chorus: F /C7 /F /F7 /Bb /Gm /F /C7 /F /A7 / There is more information in this thread - http://basschat.co.uk/topic/288025-here-are-the-chords-but-im-on-capo-4/ David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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