Strains, tendons ect

[philsimmonds]

Hey guys...

just wondering if people have any good warm ups, ect for muscles...

been over practising a little on my degree.. this week, with some auditions n what not, n have come into a bit of strain, nothing to much, but enough to worry,

whos had expericance with problems like this?? ways to over come? and what not.. nice to know some other opinions apart from what ive been told..

Would Be cool to hear from ya

Phil

[Jean-Luc Pickguard]

Dr Randall Kertz wrote a very good book called "The Bassist's guide to injury management, prevention & better health" - available from his web site.

[markytbass]

I had my first proper practice in weeks last night going through a 2 hour set. My fingers on my right hand are aching this morning, but with any form of excersize if you over do it things will start to ache (not that that is always a bad thing).

[Protium]

If that's you in the avatar, stop playing with wrists bent like that.

[doctor_of_the_bass]

[quote name='Protium' post='314443' date='Oct 25 2008, 11:46 AM']If that's you in the avatar, stop playing with wrists bent like that.[/quote]

Phil! Protium tis correct! Try wearing your bass a little lower (I know I can't really talk being a King acolyte!) - I had some major right hand problems in my teens (23 years ago!) as I was playing with my bass far too high upon the chest. It tended (tendoned!) to get better on its own - I had to stop playing for a month or so, but thank the Cosmos its ok nowadays! Never play with really cold hands - espec. now the weather is getting nippy.

[Dmanlamius]

Hiya, Phil. I have done a video on keeping RSI and carpel tunnel (i've had it) at bay, right here:

[url="http://mrlamius.blogspot.com/2008/02/bass-tips5-hand-and-tendon-excercises.html"]http://mrlamius.blogspot.com/2008/02/bass-...excercises.html[/url]

;)I hope it helps.

[Legion]

Take heed of the good advice here whilst you are getting early warning signs.

I'm still on the recovery from the starting signs of RSI in both my hands and a similar problem with my right shoulder. It's seriously frustrating to be forcing yourself to take time out to recover.

As it turns out I believe my problems were mainly related to the setup of my motorbike, but playing bass and using computers all day just became extra factors that aggravated things to the point where I've had to take time off work and seriously evaluate how I play the bass, use computers and ride my bike. Particularly I always played too hard - so have lowered my action a lot and been working on very light right and left hand technique and I'm finding it a lot less strenuous on my hands.

Don't push on through any pain, get it sorted now before you do any damage.

Gotta look after number 1 as they say

[philsimmonds]

[quote name='doctor_of_the_bass' post='314712' date='Oct 25 2008, 08:13 PM']Phil! Protium tis correct! Try wearing your bass a little lower (I know I can't really talk being a King acolyte!) - I had some major right hand problems in my teens (23 years ago!) as I was playing with my bass far too high upon the chest. It tended (tendoned!) to get better on its own - I had to stop playing for a month or so, but thank the Cosmos its ok nowadays! Never play with really cold hands - espec. now the weather is getting nippy.[/quote]


Cheers guys,

yeh i've been lookin at my left hand technique alot, and kinda left the right hand behind...

needs sorting out.. i'm givin the playing a rest, n just transcribin stuff without the bass atm, just to keep the juices flowing.. but definatly something i need to look at...

and cheers for the vid link man, il check it out now..

i've been to oblivious to the whole thing n wanting to play.. i just need to take a step back and sort it out now.

thanks again x

[OldGit]

Has anyone had any Alexander technique training for this?
I've not suffered from this but now I've had my technique "improved" things are hurting ...

[joe_bass]

Yeah the angle of your wrist in your avatar could become a real problem. I tend to do this with my thumb bass, guessing because of the smaller body.


Despite being only 20 I have extremely bad wrists, I've been lifting weights for about 3 years, however the problem was caused by just one gym session in which I tried some weighted wrist exercise & that was it. Problems since & it spurs up every now & again to different degrees.

As mentioned above don't work through it, if it hurts then put the bass down.


As for warm ups etc just do some scales & stuff & build up the speed. Try soaking your hands under hot water as well. If your wrists start to hurt soak them under cold water.


Hope this helps.

[mcgraham]

Good advice so far. Here's a couple of tips that helped me:

1. Keep straight, or at the very least straight[i]er[/i] wrists. This will help significantly.

2. Play with a lighter touch. Just turn your amp up to get the volume, and work on getting desired punch from your fingers alone. It is a balance of playing light enough to make it effortless and heavy enough to get good tone, but put the work in and you'll be fine.

3. Set your bass up and use string gauges that complement the above (purely personal choice of what that is). Angle your bass to be less parallel to the floor and more at a 45' angle. Doesn't need to be as extreme as this but it helps. Find a comfortable height for both left and right arms/hands in order to keep wrists straight on both hands, and to also keep muscles relaxed and not all tied up, i.e. prevent chicken wing on the right arm.

Mark

Edited October 27, 2008 by mcgraham

[bremen]

[quote name='mcgraham' post='315709' date='Oct 27 2008, 12:23 PM']chicken wing on the right arm.[/quote]

What's that?

[Geek99]

I've had carpal tunnel syndrome and it isnt nice.
WHat happened to me was that my hand started to feel colder, and I got tingling in my middle and ring fingers.
The solution after much physiotherapy was an intra wrist injection with Benisol (a steroidal anti-inflammatory) - we have a specialist hand clinic near us and it took a long time to get thgrough the medidal hurdles. The alternative to Benisol is an operation where they cut and restitch your wrist ligaments.

I have found that by altering my playing position and using lighter strings, it hasnt flared up again.

Edited October 27, 2008 by Geek99

[Buzz]

For your wrists, I'd recommend getting a Power Ball, it's not directly related to bass, but they do help quite drastically tone up and strengthen wrist muscles.

Being a computer student, riding motorbikes and also having to use a computer all day at work over the summer I kept getting twinges of pain in my right wrist starting about 18 months ago, 6 months ago I got myself a powerball, it's been great, no more pain at all, although mine was due to the onset of RSI, it strengthens your fingers and arm as well. Can't sing it's praises high enough.

[Ray]

+1 for the Powerball.

[mcgraham]

[quote name='bremen' post='315724' date='Oct 27 2008, 12:46 PM']What's that?[/quote]

If you look at bassists who don't keep good form on their right arm, i.e. bent wrist and bent accompanying elbow, it looks remarkably like a chicken's wing. Avoiding this/mitigating this form is good to do!

Mark

[bremen]

[quote name='mcgraham' post='315823' date='Oct 27 2008, 02:11 PM']If you look at bassists who don't keep good form on their right arm, i.e. bent wrist and bent accompanying elbow, it looks remarkably like a chicken's wing. Avoiding this/mitigating this form is good to do!

Mark[/quote]

You mean the elbow sticking out in front of the bass?

I tend to do this a bit, maybe because I hit the strings pretty hard? I know it's bad when it makes my right shoulder ache (having a broken collarbone doesn't help). I keep both wrists pretty straight though.

[mcgraham]

Umm, not quite? Look at Bill Dickens, or Victor Wooten (as examples). They both have their basses (somewhat/relatively) high, their wrists are cocked with the underside of their forearm resting on the top of the bass. Due to the height of the bass and the cocked nature of their wrists, their elbows are inevitably bent up alongside their body.

For me, even when my wrist is straight and I'm not resting on the bass, having a bent elbow introduces too much tension/resistance in my right hand movement. I consequently have my bass height lower than other bassists who are conscious of their playing (i.e. not just having it low or high for appearance's sake) in order to straighten out my elbow and help my arm and hand movement feel more relaxed.

Mark

[bremen]

[quote name='mcgraham' post='315854' date='Oct 27 2008, 02:43 PM']Umm, not quite? Look at Bill Dickens, or Victor Wooten (as examples). They both have their basses (somewhat/relatively) high, their wrists are cocked with the underside of their forearm resting on the top of the bass. Due to the height of the bass and the cocked nature of their wrists, their elbows are inevitably bent up alongside their body.[/quote]

Gotcha.

I definitely don't suffer from that. My odd posture is another animal entirely.

[mcgraham]

Everyone's posture is different. I don't pretend to be an expert on such things, but I consider that you've got to do what feels most comfortable, whilst bearing in mind basic understanding of the human anatomy to see what would/could cause damage in the long run. Also, people often forget that you need to re-evaluate what 'feels' comfortable as you improve and develop. What feels comfortable plucking root notes at 8ths at 80bpm as a beginner isn't necessarily going to be comfortable when playing arpeggios and complex lines at 16ths @ 200bpm at a more advanced level. I think this is often the downfall of certain players, being limited by what they started out doing and not allowing themselves to progress beyond that.

What exactly is so odd about your posture if you don't mind me asking?

Mark

[bremen]

[quote name='mcgraham' post='315902' date='Oct 27 2008, 03:34 PM']What exactly is so odd about your posture if you don't mind me asking?

Mark[/quote]

I've seen a couple of photos where my right elbow is forward of the rest of me, as if I'm wrestling with an extra-heavy-duty whammy bar. Then again, I've seen loads where I look twice as relaxed as Family Man Barrett so maybe the awkward-looking ones were taken at the moment I played a particularly stinky chord.

Did I mention I had a broken elbow as well as the collarbone. It's a miracle I can play at all.

[mcgraham]

Ohhh, I think I get when you mean... Do you mean like Oteil Burbridge looks when playing? Try searching for a picture when you've got the time.

If you look at Todd Johnson or Gary Willis, they use the floating thumb and advocate 'holding' your forearm/hand in place by way of your shoulder, i.e. effectively holding it out in front of you rather than resting it on anything. It's just a question of how much one is doing it and whether it's painful or not. You say you play hard, maybe try lightening up and seeing how that affects the pain? If that doesn't help, try half holding your arm (as you're doing) and half resting it on the bass, i.e. have some contact between the forearm and the bass, but not placing the full weight of the arm on the bass. Does that makes sense? This is what I do and it helps me stay relaxed whilst keeping good form.

You could also try bringing the neck side of the bass closer to your fretting hand and pulling the bridge side of the bass further out from your right shoulder to even out the way your hands approach the bass. Of course, I can't see you so you may be doing all of these things, but off the top of my head those are some suggestions that may help. I hope they do.

FWIW, sorry about the broken bones bud! They sound a bit unpleasant.

Mark

[bremen]

[quote name='mcgraham' post='315921' date='Oct 27 2008, 03:52 PM']Ohhh, I think I get when you mean... Do you mean like Oteil Burbridge looks when playing? Try searching for a picture when you've got the time.


If you look at Todd Johnson or Gary Willis, they use the floating thumb and advocate 'holding' your forearm/hand in place by way of your shoulder, i.e. effectively holding it out in front of you rather than resting it on anything. It's just a question of how much one is doing it and whether it's painful or not. You say you play hard, maybe try lightening up and seeing how that affects the pain? If that doesn't help, try half holding your arm (as you're doing) and half resting it on the bass, i.e. have some contact between the forearm and the bass, but not placing the full weight of the arm on the bass. Does that makes sense? This is what I do and it helps me stay relaxed whilst keeping good form.

You could also try bringing the neck side of the bass closer to your fretting hand and pulling the bridge side of the bass further out from your right shoulder to even out the way your hands approach the bass. Of course, I can't see you so you may be doing all of these things, but off the top of my head those are some suggestions that may help. I hope they do.

FWIW, sorry about the broken bones bud! They sound a bit unpleasant.

Mark[/quote]

Thanks, I'll have another read of this when I get home and behind a bass.

I think for the most part I play as you recommend - it's only recently that I've been gettting the occasional ache and it may well be old age and reckless mountain-biking to blame as much as the playing.