New band quandary - advice sought, please...

[ahpook]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1491832798' post='3275710']
You'll put down a guide track first that will be to a click track.

Then the drumer will play along to that, so all willl be good. You'll have a vocal track to guide you.

There will be no problem with reading off a pad as there's no audience. If you mess up, you can just re-record the part you messed up.

Relax.
[/quote]

I'd agree (and with Tonteee).

The band seem confident enough in your abilities to go into the studio, so go with that vibe.

If they want to record a song you're not 100% with then that's fine - you've told the band you feel stretched so just give it your best shot. I rather suspect you'll surprise yourself.


Good luck.

Edited April 10, 2017 by ahpook

[Marc S]

It's a bit rum of the band, if they've not listened to your thoughts at all
But as everyone else on here has said - this could be a good experience for you
Not being unkind, but it does sound as though you feel you're not quite "ready" yet, or not as well rehearsed as you'd like to be
I know that feeling, cos I personally like to be as well rehearsed and prepared as I can be

In the studio though, as you'll have chord charts, drums and guide vocals (ask if the guitarist will do some guide guitar with you too, maybe?) I'm sure you'll be fine. These days, in a studio, they can move individual notes around, and even shift syllables!

As someone else has already said - maybe your new band have already got confidence in you - it certainly looks that way.
BTW, a few months ago, I recorded some songs with a singer / guitarist pal of mine. We'd played together a bit, but not for some time...
anyhow, one of the songs he wanted to record he had never sent me (even though he swears he had) and another song I'd played with him almost 2 years previously, was in a different key - with a very different structure. Put it this way, if an old dog like me can be taught new tricks, I'm sure you can do it

Most of all, best of luck with it - don't chuck the band just yet, you've already said they're a good band. (EDIT: Good bands can be few and far between, depending on where you are, and being in the right place etc) Again, it's a shame if they really haven't listened to your thoughts, but I'm sure you can do this & move on

Don't forget to let us know how you get on with the studio, and the new set

2nd EDIT - Lol. I'm in a band who really NEED some demo tracks, to promote ourselves - but pinning everyone down to do it is proving harder than I thought it would be... shame, as they're a great band too...

Edited April 10, 2017 by Marc S

[solo4652]

Thank you everybody for the support and encouragement. You've all made me much more confident about giving the recordings an honest shot.

[bassjim]

I know where you are coming from. I am doing first of a run of 10 dep gigs in a few weeks and haven't played 80% of the tunes before ever. Because its more than in, this instance, a semi permanent position ( if it goes well = member of a dep pool) for a well established and pro standard band, I need to have it all spot on rather than any "that'll do" stuff that I have gotten away with before.

Although I've been practising a lot, some of the tunes are not where I like them to be yet. I like to have a tune "under my fingers" and know it inside out and backwards so to speak before I can confidently say its in the bag, and even then how the band play as a unit can alter my approach. If you haven't even gigged yet and only rehearsed a few times, unless the parts are painfully simple and straight forward, its not as easy to feel confident.

I would say firstly keep on with the set list learning. Your brain needs time to process information and as you well know you can wake up some mornings and something that was bugging you yesterday suddenly falls into place.

The band having replaced the old bass player obviously want to get every thing back to normal asap and may see the recording as a way of reinforcing that vibe.

If you already know which are the chosen tunes, then I would in your shoes keep playing them as much as possible as well as keeping to learning the set. But I would tell the band that although you are committed and look forward to band life together, there could be a revisit to the studio to re do bass parts in the following month or two.
If the parts go well then cool but just as a back up you may need to redo them. Ideally you would like to put it on hold but because you know they want to get on with it, you don't want to put a downer on it. Another reason to come back and do any fixing is because you could see every one getting fed up waiting for you to redo and fix parts during the initial sessions. Also they wont be happy wasting a lot of engineering time just for you.

Having said all of that you still have two weeks.........

If its a case of if you don't someone else will then that's a whole different kettle of fish.

[dmccombe7]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1491828172' post='3275641']
I don't see a problem here other than your confidence is sagging a little.

The songs you're recording are also in the set? You don't need rehearsals, you need practise time.So learn those 5 till you can play them in your sleep, then focus on the rest.

You can do this. You've got nearly 2 weeks. For 5 songs? Play those 5 as many times a day as you need. When you're done with them run through the rest of the set.
[/quote]

+1 on this.

You'll be fine if you focus on those 5 songs. Doesn't matter if you've only played them with the band once or twice. You're not recording them as a band so as long as you know your bit it will work out just fine and as somebody pointed out a good engineer can drop in to correct any mistakes that might be made and believe me the rest of the band will be doing the same.
Its a different ball game when you do recording and find out what you can and cant do. Guitarists are renowned for wanting to do retakes cause they haven't quite captured "their sound"
I'd just go with it, try and relax and just enjoy it for what it is. An adventure and all part of band fun time.

Dave

[steve-bbb]

in my humble experience most established covers bands do not win gigs on the strength of their website or demo recordings alone

99.999% of your gig bookings will come from people who have been to see you live in the flesh and were impressed enough to shake their booty or tap their foot accordingly

the cost of a pro recording session is quite significant - if he is willing to foot the bill himself then maybe just humour him as whilst its handy to have it on the website there will also be a small element of it that will be perhaps (trying to be diplomatic) 'his personal vanity project' (which is all well and good if he is footing the bill)

the fact they ask you means they must think you are up to the standard required - and theyve certainly offered plenty of notice

tricky call if you have plenty of other commitments and if all your concerns are falling on deaf ears then maybe thats an indicator of a possible future predicament

[Les]

[quote name='solo4652' timestamp='1491831300' post='3275694']
Well Les, that's the pretty clear message here, isn't it! as Chris_b says, my confidence is sagging.
[/quote]

Sorry Steve I hadn't read between the lines. There's obviously a vote of confindence in you from the band or they wouldn't be committing the time and money to the recording process if they weren't sure you were up to it pal

Good luck

Les

[Trueno]

You'll spend most of the recording session sitting around bored out of your crust while they are "mixing down"... I think that's the expression. Then the vocalist will want to re-do his bits, and add his own harmonies... then maybe add some of his expert tambourine playing. You'll probably get the bass parts down in twenty minutes, then you'll have to decide if it's undiplomatic to say, "do you mind if I nip off home now... I urgently need to watch some paint drying".
This is why I always regarded myself as a 100% live player... and I absolutely hate recording studios... they are the most boring places in the world.
In short... you don't have anything to worry about... it's a bit like a trip to the dentist, when it's over you've got all those lovely gigs to concentrate on.

[PaulWarning]

[quote name='Trueno' timestamp='1491840864' post='3275792']
You'll spend most of the recording session sitting around bored out of your crust while they are "mixing down"... I think that's the expression. Then the vocalist will want to re-do his bits, and add his own harmonies... then maybe add some of his expert tambourine playing. You'll probably get the bass parts down in twenty minutes, then you'll have to decide if it's undiplomatic to say, "do you mind if I nip off home now... I urgently need to watch some paint drying".
This is why I always regarded myself as a 100% live player... and I absolutely hate recording studios... they are the most boring places in the world.
In short... you don't have anything to worry about... it's a bit like a trip to the dentist, when it's over you've got all those lovely gigs to concentrate on.
[/quote]yep I can relate to this having just recorded an album, 5 days in the studio. first 2 getting the basic tracks down, next 3 mixing down sorting out timing issues and getting the best take of a certain part of the song, oh and then guitar overdubs, tedious doesn't even begin to describe it, everybody getting tired and fed up, tensions within the band certainly came to the surface

[TimR]

[quote name='steve-bbb' timestamp='1491839061' post='3275772']
in my humble experience most established covers bands do not win gigs on the strength of their website or demo recordings alone

99.999% of your gig bookings will come from people who have been to see you live in the flesh and were impressed enough to shake their booty or tap their foot accordingly

...
[/quote]

Whilst I agree with this 100%, if the band are looking for high end gigs where they're booked by committee, one member of the committe will say they have seen or know a really good band but they'll often need a way to convince the rest of the committee.

[TimR]

Just to clarify on the guide track;

IME The guide track will be everyone playing together and then relevant tracks dropped out during the re-recording of each part.

Sometimes (usually) the original drum track is used. Assuming there is no bass bleed into the drum mikes this will give a more authentic feel to the recording. If the bass is then good on that first take there may only be a requirement to drop in parts.

[blue]

[quote name='solo4652' timestamp='1491825142' post='3275599']

What shall I do? I’m very much the band New Boy and I certainly don’t want to be obstructive or awkward 4 weeks in. However, neither do I want to go to a studio ill-prepared. My priority right now is learning the setlist for the gig. If the band continues to insist on the studio recording next weekend, despite me suggesting that it's postponed, I'm close to saying I won't be there.

Steve
[/quote]

Depends on why you joined the band in the first place.

In my band I'm a commissioned sideman. I joined the band to make money (I'm a Yankee 😁). I don't make suggestions and my priority is to do what I'm told.

You guys have heard me say a million times, have a clear understanding of what your looking for in a band and why your joining before you join.

Blue

[blue]

[quote name='steve-bbb' timestamp='1491839061' post='3275772']


tricky call if you have plenty of other commitments and if all your concerns are falling on deaf ears then maybe thats an indicator of a possible future predicament

[/quote]

Agreed

Blue

[bazzbass]

Unless it was booked before you joined, it's very unproffessional of them to expect a new player to be ready to record so soon.

On the other hand, in the studio you will have more time to come up with parts that suit, maybe.

Either way, the second you record a song, you will be coming up with better basslines, ALWAYS happens

[steve-bbb]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1491845462' post='3275832']
Whilst I agree with this 100%, if the band are looking for high end gigs where they're booked by committee, one member of the committe will say they have seen or know a really good band but they'll often need a way to convince the rest of the committee.
[/quote]

agreed - but i think youll find even then with the higher end better paid corporate gigs and such, that someone on that committee might be connected to a band member - we have had a few like this and they are through such connections of a social/business nature but in those instances the person hiring us has still seen and heard us in the flesh

this whole process very rarely if ever happens just from a google search or review/comparison website alone - when bookers are prepared to pay good fees for entertainments then they need to be sure they are getting good value for money and most punters would agree that booking a band purely on how their demos sound on their website might not be the wisest of choices

Edited April 11, 2017 by steve-bbb

[pete.young]

[quote name='Tonteee' timestamp='1491828775' post='3275659']
A Bandcamp or Soundcloud page is still a useful tool, but I agree that physical copy is a bit 2005. Cards (IME) with a Web address for tracks / videos work just as well for physical presence and are 10 times cheaper.
[/quote]
There is at least one venue in these parts where the landlord won't consider booking a band he hasn't heard before without a CD. He reckons he is working 15 hour days and doesn't have time to watch web based promos.

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='pete.young' timestamp='1491896674' post='3276147']
There is at least one venue in these parts where the landlord won't consider booking a band he hasn't heard before without a CD. He reckons he is working 15 hour days and doesn't have time to watch web based promos.
[/quote]

It it an originals venue, or a covers gig?

[mcnach]

[quote name='RhysP' timestamp='1491825797' post='3275605']
Do the recording.
If it comes out OK then fine, if it doesn't then bask in the smug feeling of "I told you so..." for years to come.
[/quote]

This.

Sometimes you just have to watch the car crash unfold, as there's only so much warning you can give. And sometimes we can be wrong and the car crash never happens after all.

I'd just concentrate on getting the songs ready as planned, for the gig, and coming recording time do your best. If a song doesn't come out right it'll be abandoned and another one used instead... I'm sure it'll be fine in the end even if it seems like extra unnecessary stress right now.

[mcnach]

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1491825925' post='3275609']
Surely it's not being suggested that you (all...) record all 30 songs in one recording session..? That smacks of folly, to me. If it's simply a matter of going through two, three or five of the numbers for a 'sampler' CD, what's the harm..? Go along, record your best take and enjoy the experience; it'll be fine, I'd say. Don't over-think it, maybe..?
[/quote]


That's how I read it too. No way they're going to record all 25-30 songs in one session.

[mcnach]

[quote name='solo4652' timestamp='1491828495' post='3275651']
Yes. I don't think the band needs a CD for marketing. Much more important in my view is some half-decent real-time videos of the band playing live to an appreciative audience. However, the band still wants to do the studio recording in 10 days time. What I'm struggling with is why can't it be postponed until after the gig? The studio will still be there, the band will be much better-rehearsed, pressure will be off etc.
[/quote]

Do you think it would affect how prepared you'll be for the gig?

I don't think so. If you said you only had 3 days to prepare, sure, one day is a big chunk to remove. But as it is? It may actually be quite good, especially if you record without the other instruments to guide you. I recorded the first EP of my main band that way just a month after I joined... it was not the easiest but I sure knew the songs perfectly after the recording.

I understand your worrying... but I think you worry too much

I think it'll be a good experience to have before your gig. Don't fight it! You're outvoted... go with it and see what happens. I doubt it'll be a disaster.

[solo4652]

[size=4]Quick update.[/size]

[size=4]Yes, yes, I know - I worry too much! Story of my life. I'm over-critical, over-cautious and under-confident. I use B/C to check my natural pessimism. I know I can come across as a bit of hand-wringer, but I value the external advice and support I get here.[/size]

[size=4][color=black]Following on from all the excellent advice and support from you lot, I've decided to take a pragmatic approach. I'll concentrate on the recording songs for now, once the band has agreed which ones...I'll keep on practising the giglist but without adding any new ones until after the recording session. The recording songs haven’t been fully rehearsed, and the starts and endings are still largely undecided. I’ll just turn up and play what I’ve practised and let them cut, paste and edit my tracks to create what they want. That approach gives me 9 days to nail the recording songs and, after that, 2 weeks to focus on the gig songs including a couple of new ones. Onwards and upwards, then.[/color][/size]

[size=4][color=black]Steve[/color][/size]

Edited April 11, 2017 by solo4652

[Nick Riffed]

Do the tracks for the CD.
You will probably be the most well rehearsed one there.
Enjoy it. The worst case scenario, you do a great job, the rest do a bad job, you get a demo cd that you can't use. Hopefully they will then understand your concerns.
Best cas scenario, it turns out brilliantly, you are proud to hand people your demo and you get lots of gigs.
Either way you have put the effort in and nobody died.

Hope it goes well.

[Marc S]

[quote name='solo4652' timestamp='1491899680' post='3276185']
Quick update.

......[color=black]I've decided to take a pragmatic approach. I'll concentrate on the recording songs for now, once the band has agreed which ones...I'll keep on practising the giglist but without adding any new ones until after the recording session......[/color]
[color=black]Steve[/color]
[/quote]

That sounds the best approach, and would be the sort of way I'd look at it. If as you say, the band hasn't sorted out the beginnings & ends of songs, it sounds like they're no more rehearsed than yourself. Just write down a few crib sheets of notes, with keys, key changes and structure.... that should help you a lot.

I know you've said you lack a bit of confidence - but I hope this will help boost that a bit.

[chris_b]

Endings are a doddle. . . . just . . . [size=2]fade . . . [/size] [size=1]out . . . . [/size]

[solo4652]

Flurry of band emails this afternoon. Planned rehearsal for this week is cancelled, and next week's is looking highly unlikely. That means the next time we meet will be at the recording studio to play a list of 4 or 5 songs that has yet to be agreed but will probably include 1 song I haven't learned yet, 1 song that I've learned at home but haven't yet played with the band and 3 or 4 songs which, at most, we will have played together 3 times, because we've only played together 3 times in total. "Don't worry Steve - it'll be great fun", the band tells me. Depends on your idea of fun, I suppose.

All I can do is tell them what I'm practising and then turn up at the recording studio and and play that. I'm not going to stress any more about this.

Edited April 11, 2017 by solo4652