Amp test drive; Aguilar, Darkglass, Genzler and Mesa Boogie

[Osiris]

This started out as New Amp Day thread for my Genzler Magellan 800 but has grown a bit more than I was originally anticipating….

DISCLAIMER - what is stated below is just my opinion based on my experience with my bass and my cab being played at smallish pub gig volumes. I thought I'd throw that in because there might be 1 or 2 comments below that some people might not agree with. This thread just relays my experience, thoughts and feelings at the time.

Having been in the market for a new amp for a while, I'd managed to narrow down a shortlist of amps that, on paper at least, ticked all my requirements; lightweight, plenty of power for bigger/outdoor gigs, more voiced towards a vintage rather than a toppy hi-fi tone, and, sensibly priced (not cheap as such, but nothing ludicrously expensive either). In the end I'd managed narrowed it down to the Aguilar Tone Hammer (either the 350 or more likely the 500), the Darkglass Microtubes 900, the Mesa Boogie Subway D-800 and the Genzler Magellan 800.

A recent trip to Bass Direct armed with my own cab, a Tecamp M212 and my trusty passive Sandberg TT4 jazz bass, I had the chance to try out and compare the Darkglass (DG), Mesa (MB) and the Genzler (GZ).
My test driving session was in BD's store room which is nothing more than an industrial unit full of boxes, so possibly not the best acoustic environment to test gear out, but that's how it was.

I started off running each amp with all the tone controls at 12 o'clock. Any adjustable preshape filters were set to their off/minimum settings and the GZ and DG were set to their clean channels.
All 3 amps the were broadly similar tonally, but there were differences. The MB had noticeably more bottom end than the others. The GZ sounded flat with no obvious frequencies either cut or boosted. The DG, somewhat surprisingly, had what sounded like a bit of a roll off at the lower end. Not much, but it was noticeable compared to the others. However, the DG had something more pleasing in the mids to my ear. It probably all comes down to what each manufacturer perceives a 'flat' sound to be.

Next came an hour or so of finding out what each amp had to offer by going through various eq settings and swapping the amps over to compare each one with similar tones dialled in.
Each amp yielded some fantastic tones and each had their own distinctive voice too. In fact I wasn't able to coax a bad or unusable sound out of any of them. It was a tough call as each amp has its own strengths.

Mesa Boogie Subway D-800

The MB was the least versatile of the 3. Tonally, it goes from shouty and aggressive to really shouty and aggressive. Not that it has a bad tone, far from it, but it is anything but subtle. With the 4 eq points set to 12 o'clock and the voicing control set flat there was more inherent low end than the GZ and the DG in particular. Using the bass control, voicing filter and deep switch, you had 3 options to dial in even more bass. Not that you need any of them. I found that I was having to wind the bass eq back to 11 or even 10 o'clock and keep the deep switch off to stop it getting overpowering. Not that the bottom end was dominating the other frequencies, but I'd imagine that it could get overbearing in a band situation if you're not careful. The voicing control on the MB, which is an adjustable mid-scoop, has a wide range and to my ear but anything over about 9 or 10 o'clock and you were getting into 'sounds great on its own but makes you disappear from the mix' territory. Less is definitely more with that one.

The tone that really put a smile on my face was playing the Sandberg on the neck pickup, the voicing set at about 8 o'clock, deep switch off, the bass eq set about 10 o'clock, low mid at 12, upper mid at about 1 and the treble at about 11. It pretty much turned the TT4 jazz into a Precision! This tone very nearly sold the Mesa to me there and then. But much as I loved the core tone of the MB, it was hard to make it sound anything other than aggressive and bass heavy. It felt like it was constantly having to be kept in check.

Darkglass Microtubes 900

There's no denying that there's a lot of hype about the DG, and rightly so, it's a cracking amp. On the clean channel with the EQ set flat, it was the least bassy sounding of the 3 but had something going on in the mids that I really liked but can't quite describe. It was in no way thin sounding, it just didn't have quite as much low end as the other 2 with all bass eq at noon. Upping the bass eq to about 1 o'clock bought the low end back up to a similar level as the GZ. Of the 3 amps, the DG has the most comprehensive eq section which was quick and easy to get a great sound out of. It was the only amp not to have a preshape or contour feature, just a 4 band eq with each mid band having a switch for 3 preset frequencies. A setting that sounded great to my ear was bass between 1 and 2 o'clock, low mids at 11 on the 500hz setting, hi mids at 1 on the 750 hz setting and the treble just backed off a touch.

The big selling point of the DG is the Microtubes circuit which has both the Vintage Microtubes and B3K voice settings available. Tonally, like a lot of guys, I want a bit of warmth/hair/grit/additional harmonic content (insert your favourite adjective here) in my sound, not overdrive as such, but something that is neither squeaky clean nor yet dirty. A bit grubby I suppose. I was expecting to get some mild warmth using the VMT setting at lower gain, but even with the drive and blend controls down in the 8 to 9 o'clock regions there was still too much on tap for what I am looking for. Switching to the B3K mode changed the voicing and actually sounded less driven to me, somewhat surprisingly. It also introduced a slight mid-scoop too. At higher gain settings there are some great overdrive and distortion sounds to be found, but these are way over the top for anything that I play these days, everything from 70's disco to contemporary indie. Having said that, the hairy teenage rocker in me who first picked up the bass more than 30 years ago was screaming at me to buy it for the fun factor alone. Unfortunately, the podgy, balding, middle aged man in me (which is me these days) was urging something more sensible. The DG was still tempting for the tone and flexibility of the clean channel alone but why pay extra for the Microtubes engine that I'm not going to use other than for a bit of fun?

Just to be clear, I'm not saying that the Microtubes engine is inherently bad sounding or unusable, it's just that even at minimum drive settings it was too full on for my requirements. I read recently someone describing the DG sound as like the bass being played through both a bass amp and a guitar amp at the same time (or words to that effect) and I think that sums it up perfectly. It's not your classic Ampeg saturated valve bass sound, it more like a bass being played through a Mesa Boogie dual rectifier.

Genzler Magellan 800

Of the 3 amps being compared, the GZ was a last minute addition to the short list. I'd borrowed a friends Genz Benz amp a few years ago (can't remember what model it was, unfortunately) and found that it had a bump in the boxy sounding low mids that I struggled to eq out. I'd just assumed that this would likely also be the case with the GZ. The good news is that this assumption was misplaced. On the clean channel with the tone controls at noon and the contour control wound right back the tone was to my ear the flattest of the 3 on trial. The blurb online talks about a “weighted feel to the notes” which I'd just assumed was the usual marketing claims. However, the low end is definitely forceful, punchy and powerful but without feeling overbearing like the MB. The mids and treble are equally present without being boxy or brittle. The eq section is simple and flexible and contains bass, treble and a single semi-parametric mid plus the contour control that has 2 different voicings, A & B. Voice A is a variable mid-scoop which doesn't have the range of the one on the MB but is far more usable for it. It was only when I cranked it up to 2 or 3 o'clock that it started to get into the realms of potentially not cutting through in a band situation. The MB voicing filter hit that spot much sooner. Voice B is a more vintage sounding mid bump with a slight low end roll off. Voice B set to about 10 o'clock with the bass pushed up between 1 and 2 o'clock gave a great, useable retro tone.

Like the DG, the GZ has a dedicated drive channel, but even when ragging it the range of drive available on the GZ still seemed less driven than the DG at minimum settings. That's no bad thing. The drive sections on the DG and the GZ are very different creatures. The GZ is on the more subtle but extremely usable side. I've been through many different amps and pedals trying to find the perfect warmth/hair/etc. tone and the only that came close was the Aguilar Tone Hammer. The GZ drive (more warmth and enhanced harmonic content than a pedal style overdrive) is rich and creamy with plenty of clarity left in the underlying bass tone. There's no fizz either, just smooth, dynamic warmth. Think along the lines of the Tone Hammer but with more definition or a SansAmp at lower gain but without the mid-scoop. This was what convinced me to go with the Magellan. It just sounded right, my favourite settings being with both A or B contours at about 10 o'clock and the eq section all at noon.

Even though I was looking for exactly the warm/hairy tone that the GZ delivers, the clean channel has a real immediacy about it. With contour A at about 9 o'clock, bass and mids at noon and the treble back at about 11'o clock, the tone was powerful, punchy and clear. Even now having played through the GZ for several hours I can't decide whether I prefer the punchy clean channel or the warmth of the drive channel the best.

Aguilar Tone Hammer 500

I didn't try the Tone Hammer (TH) directly against the other 3 at the time, but having already played through a TH 500 a couple of weeks before, I was leaning more towards the other 3 over the TH which is lower powered (although in reality would probably have easily covered every possible gigging situation that I'd ever need it for) and although it does the warm, vintage tone brilliantly, it didn't seem to be massively versatile.

Summary

Without sounding like a cop out, these are all truly great amps and I could happily live with either of them. I wouldn't say that any one is any better than the others as each one has something different to offer. Ultimately I ended up buying the Genzler as that was the one that suits my needs. But it was a tough decision. The GZ also happened to be £150+ cheaper than the others, but that was in no way a deciding factor in my choice.

If you want a set-and-forget single tone amp, the TH and MB are great choices if their inherent sounds are to your liking. The TH is perfect for warmer vintage tones and the MB is the ideal choice if you want something more aggressive. But if you're looking for subtlety you definitely won't find it in the MB.

If you find yourself asking "is it any good for metal?" on a regular basis, the DG is the obvious choice, although the MB is definitely worth considering too. Don't write off the DG purely as a metal amp, the clean channel is good. Really good. For my needs, I found that I was having to reign back both the MB and DG to keep them under control. But I'm sure there are plenty of guys who would just let them rip and sound a damn sight better than I ever could!

The simply great tone and the versatility of the Genzler is what made me choose it over the others. It doesn't do the insane drive and distortion of the DG but instead it delivers a convincing smooth valve like saturated sound that could be used across many different genres. It's not dissimilar in that respect to the Tone Hammer, but the GZ has more clarity to its drive sound. The clean channel has a lot of power behind it, real weight, dare I say the H word? The drive channel and the different voices of the contour are usable through pretty much their entire ranges. The only thing I don't like about it is its daft name  

Edited December 7, 2017 by Osiris

[Cuzzie]

Nicely done

Great review and it would almost be word for word what I would think about those amps for me.

Does your Sandberg have the Delano pups or the Sandberg ones?

My friend and I both have saandbergs and DG amps. He has a TT with Delano's and I have the MarloweDK with Sandberg's. inherently the voicing makes for quite different sounds even when we are set at about the same, and he could not find a useable tone to his ears on a P bass, but the Jazz was king.

It's wonderfully interesting the little things that make the amps, but for me as you adeptly described it, having less bass boom in the DG compared to Mesa, lets me not get lost, but I then have the drive for a little extra oomph on the microtubes circuit.
The DG also plays very Nicely with pedals infront of it.

Thanks again for your thoughts and review

[Kev]

Great review

Regarding the Microtubes circuit in the Darkglass, how it reacts is hugely dependant on what bass goes in. It's also very interactive with the gain knob and switch.

[Musicman20]

I suspected the DG may be well too gainy for me...I like a little grit but I wouldn't buy an amp just for that. I agree, and I think it is part of their signature sound, that it is almost like a bass driven through a guitar amp at high gain with your signal underneath.

[burno70]

Brill reviews - very informative. Thanks bud.

[DBerriff]

Thank you for such a comprehensive review.

[fretmeister]

I leave the B3K element active even when I'm playing clean.

Drive low - about 2 ish, but with the blend over halfway.
It's clean but with an edge. I really like what it does to the sound. Even in big band / motown / film score type things.

Sounds great!

[Osiris]

Thanks for the feedback everyone

[quote name='Cuzzie' timestamp='1491924237' post='3276529']
Nicely done

Great review and it would almost be word for word what I would think about those amps for me.

Does your Sandberg have the Delano pups or the Sandberg ones?

My friend and I both have saandbergs and DG amps. He has a TT with Delano's and I have the MarloweDK with Sandberg's. inherently the voicing makes for quite different sounds even when we are set at about the same, and he could not find a useable tone to his ears on a P bass, but the Jazz was king.

It's wonderfully interesting the little things that make the amps, but for me as you adeptly described it, having less bass boom in the DG compared to Mesa, lets me not get lost, but I then have the drive for a little extra oomph on the microtubes circuit.
The DG also plays very Nicely with pedals infront of it.

Thanks again for your thoughts and review
[/quote]

My Sandberg TT is passive but the pickups are unbranded. They don't have the over-sized pole pieces of the Delano or Sandberg own branded pickups. I have seen other Sandberg's with Haussel pickups fitted so they could possibly be those perhaps? I checked the paperwork that came with the bass and it doesn't say what they are and the link on Bass Direct's website for the original listing is now dead. They seem to have a bit more of a mid range grunt compared to a lot of other Jazz basses that I've tried, but that suits me!

I also have a Sandberg VM that has their own brand pickups with a Glockenkland pre-amp in but I've only played that through the Genzler at in-house volumes although so I'm yet to see what the difference is between the two basses at volume, but even at low volume the distinction between their inherent sounds is obvious. I'll find out how the VM sounds at my next gig in a couple of weeks - It's at the Grainstore in Oakham on the 29th April, if you wanted to swing by and say hello, and let me know what you think, DBerriff?

[quote name='Kev' timestamp='1491940971' post='3276701']
Great review

Regarding the Microtubes circuit in the Darkglass, how it reacts is hugely dependant on what bass goes in. It's also very interactive with the gain knob and switch.
[/quote]

In an ideal world I'd have played a few different instruments through each amp to see what they had to offer. But alas, it wasn't to be.
But there is undoubtedly a multitude of great drive and distortion tones available and I'd love to have one if only for the fun factor
Let's see what next years salary bonus brings....

[Cuzzie]

I would say Haussel probably for the pick ups and they are mighty fine pick ups at that.

[Osiris]

[quote name='Cuzzie' timestamp='1492018407' post='3277270']
I would say Haussel probably for the pick ups and they are mighty fine pick ups at that.
[/quote]

Without doubt [size=4] [/size]

[afterimage]

Excellent review in the market for a new amp too

[stevie]

A real quality review, which clearly took a lot of time and effort. Thanks for that.

[Osiris]

[quote name='afterimage' timestamp='1492028270' post='3277367']
Excellent review in the market for a new amp too
[/quote]

It goes without saying, but try as many different models as you can.

[quote name='stevie' timestamp='1492029356' post='3277381']
A real quality review, which clearly took a lot of time and effort. Thanks for that.
[/quote]

Thank you, It was a slow day at work....

[Yank]

Excellent review. I have a D800, and using a passive fretless with flats, I don't seem to have the same impression of having to rein it in. I find it full and rich with plenty of power in reserve. I also run it through the mesa cabs, a 15 and a 2-10, as that might also affect my impressions. I always love good reviews with other's impressions. Well done.

[Yank]

Last night I plugged in the Mesa and tried to listen with your ears. I tried your settings also, before reverting to my own. I had never thought about it being aggressive, but found your review spot on. I mellow it out by playing technique, but you're right, it wants to be aggressive and powerful, in the same way that a Precision tone is more aggressive than a Jazz tone. I also keep the deep switch off, but have the bass at 12, low-mids at 2, high mids at 12, treble at 10, with the voicing off. This gives a mellower tone, and for punch, I'll boost the high mids to 1 or 2. Also, the aggressiveness, means that your tone won't get lost/overpowered in a band setting.

Great review, you have good ears!

[Al Krow]

Great review, thanks. The Genzler wasn't a head I had really considered before, but am definitely going to now!

[Osiris]

[quote name='Yank' timestamp='1492423332' post='3280056']
Excellent review. I have a D800, and using a passive fretless with flats, I don't seem to have the same impression of having to rein it in. I find it full and rich with plenty of power in reserve. I also run it through the mesa cabs, a 15 and a 2-10, as that might also affect my impressions. I always love good reviews with other's impressions. Well done.
[/quote][quote name='Yank' timestamp='1492507937' post='3280737']
Last night I plugged in the Mesa and tried to listen with your ears. I tried your settings also, before reverting to my own. I had never thought about it being aggressive, but found your review spot on. I mellow it out by playing technique, but you're right, it wants to be aggressive and powerful, in the same way that a Precision tone is more aggressive than a Jazz tone. I also keep the deep switch off, but have the bass at 12, low-mids at 2, high mids at 12, treble at 10, with the voicing off. This gives a mellower tone, and for punch, I'll boost the high mids to 1 or 2. Also, the aggressiveness, means that your tone won't get lost/overpowered in a band setting.

Great review, you have good ears!
[/quote]

Thanks Yank, my guess is that using a flat equipped fretless would mellow the naturally aggressive tone (in my opinion!) of the amp.

But to be fair, I'm not always the most subtle of players, I tend to dig in a lot with my right hand (a legacy of being an old rocker) so regardless of the bass and amp being used at the time, the sound I'm getting is usually a bit more aggressive than it is polite and restrained, if that makes sense? The Subway enhanced that aggressiveness to my ear. But as I said, it was far from a bad tone, it's just that I couldn't imagine it being the first choice of amp for a jazz or acoustic gig. Having said that, I'm happy to be proved wrong!

[quote name='Al Krow' timestamp='1492554125' post='3281251']
Great review, thanks. The Genzler wasn't a head I had really considered before, but am definitely going to now!
[/quote]

Al, I'd read your 'That warm valve amp sound thread' and it sounds to me that you and I are after pretty much the same thing. I'd been through a lot of pedals to try and get [i]that [/i]sound - The tone hammer pre-amp does it really well as does the Sansamp VT bass, but I found with the VT that there was a bit too much compression going on and it got lost in the mix when playing with the band. But I've not heard anyone else have that issue, so maybe it was just me?

Anyway, I can definitely recommend the Genzler amp for the warmth and smoothness of the drive channel if you're looking for that silky, rich, traditional tone. No doubt some of the valve purists will turn their nose up at it, but for me it's close enough and has the advantage of much less weight to lug about. Like you I started off going through pedals, but ultimately I ended up with a new amp! If you can get your hands on one, definitely give it a go and see what you think for yourself.

[Al Krow]

Cheers Os. That's made me doubly interested in checking out the Genzler! The other lightweight head I'm thinking about for the very same reason is the GK MB Fusion 800 - with 3 12ax7s tubes in the pre-amp. Is this an amp you have come across in your travels? The silky rich tone is one I am getting in spades from my Mesa M6 Carbine Combo, which I love, but at 80lbs that's a monster and not practical for gigging! (I picked it up end of line for a bargain price I couldn't refuse). I'm hoping that the Genzler or GK will come close?

I'm thinking of pairing the amp head with a Barefaced Super Midget which is 8ohm rated and should handle 600W. The Genzler pumps out 400W and the GK 560W at 8ohms (not sure why the difference here given they are both rated 800W at 4ohms?). So I'm thinking the Barefaced SM shoud be able to handle either head comfortably? If so, it would make for a very lightweight and portable rig!

[Osiris]

Sorry, I have no experience with the GK MB Fusion so I can't comment on how it sounds or compares to anything else. A lot of guys speak highly of them so it's got to be worth trying to track one down to have a blast through.

Having either owned or played through a couple of amps over the years that have a valve in the pre-amp (Trace Elliot SMX, Hartke, Mark Bass and Genz Benz) I've never been completely enamoured with the sounds - admittedly these are older amp models and the technology has moved on a bit since then. But this is purely my experience, plenty of other folks seem happy enough with what these amps and other hybrids have to offer.

The Genzler doesn't have any valves in it at all, but just seems to nail the sound that I had in my head - it's subtle but very usable and the eq curve that rolls of the high and low end helps to stop it from getting farty or frizzy. It just sounds right to me. But you really need to try it and hear it, the YouTube clips that I have seen and listened to don't do it any justice whatsoever!

[Muzz]

Hey Al,

I had a GK MBFusion 500 as a run of heads which has pretty much stopped with the Magellan - I liked the Fusion, but found it had pretty 'baked in' tone which was very GK, and a little too harsh for me. I've no doubt that with judicious EQing it could be tamed, but I try to find an amp which is close to my sound before I start having to EQ. I find the Magellan to be the most versatile head I've tried in a very long time, and the two channels make switching sounds very quick and easy. I use it primarily for my function band work, which requires a very wide range of sounds (or approximations thereof), and I have a BF cab (the Super Twin, but I've also run a Compact/Midget pair, and a BB2) through which it sounds grand. And yeah, for a head without a valve in the pre, it can sound more 'valvey' than others with 1,2 or 3 valves in there...

Definitely worth trying...

All IMHO, YMMV, etc, etc...

Oh, and I wouldn't worry about watts with that combination: it'll be plenty loud...

Edited April 19, 2017 by Muzz

[Al Krow]

Cheers Muzz - that is pretty high praise for the Magellan. I see you still have a Mesa WA in your gear listing. How would you compare the Magellan + Barefaced to the Mesa WA? Kinda interesting as I think the two separates come to about the same price as the WA?

[Muzz]

The WA is just the head - I run that with the BF cab, too. I use the WA with my other 'Rawk' band - one sound, one setting, lots of drive; I like the sound it makes, the mids are warm and 'there'. It's not as versatile as the Genzler, and although it's a good deal lighter and smaller than an 80lb monster, by the time you've got it cased it's a deal bigger...

On the 'watts' thing, the WA puts out theoretically 300w into the 4 ohms of the BF Super Twin, yet the pairing can very very easily hang with two loud guitarists, both with JCM100 heads and 4x12s. Of course, I've played with both heads in both situations, and both combinations are plenty. The BF cabs (well, the ones I've played through) are VERY efficient, and convert every watt into plenty of volume.

[Al Krow]

Here's a GZ M 800 YouTube review which I think illustrates the points that Osiris has made very well, for those of you interested.

https://youtu.be/YzkCtlcffw0

It's clearly a really good amp. My only hesitation is that I'm not convinced that the in built drive on the Magellan comes close to competing with some of the best dedicated drive pedals and that a GZ M 800 on its own would therefore improve on a transparent, but true, Markbass amp (which I have already) + good drive pedal.

[DBerriff]

Osiris. I missed you at the Grainstore. Sorry. That is what comes from skim- reading posts.

[Osiris]

[quote name='Al Krow' timestamp='1493809954' post='3290795']
Here's a GZ M 800 YouTube review which I think illustrates the points that Osiris has made very well, for those of you interested.

[url="https://youtu.be/YzkCtlcffw0"]https://youtu.be/YzkCtlcffw0[/url]

It's clearly a really good amp. My only hesitation is that I'm not convinced that the in built drive on the Magellan comes close to competing with some of the best dedicated drive pedals and that a GZ M 800 on its own would therefore improve on a transparent, but true, Markbass amp (which I have already) + good drive pedal.
[/quote]

I'd also watched that YouTube clip (plus a couple of others) before buying the amp and had come to the same conclusion as you had, that the drive channel was nothing special. Mind you, he plays through the amp with a Stingray and I've never been a fan of that nasal tone. Plenty of guys love it, but it does nothing for me

In the real word the drive channel is much smoother sounding, has a ton of clarity and a great dynamic touch response, the harder you dig in the more it growls, ease up with your right hand and it cleans up again. There's no low end mush or harsh, fizzy top end. It just sounds good. Really good. In my opinion, of course!

Anyway, as I'm sure you know, when trying something in real life, there is usually little tonal resemblance to what something sounds like online plus there's a multitude of other variables to factor in that have an impact on the tone on a YouTube clip. I'd still recommend you try one out if you can - if only to eliminate to from your list of potential new amps. And I'm guessing that Muzz would second me on this too!

Obviously tone is a personal thing and we all have different ideas of what the perfect tone is, or what we want our sound to be. This obviously includes drive sounds too. The Genzler drive channel just sounds right to me. It's definitely on the low gain, smooth and silky side, but that's what I want. That's not to say that it's what you want, but from your other thread, I'd be surprised if the Genzler isn't in the same ball park even if it's not exactly what you're looking for.

Try one and let us know what you think

Edited May 3, 2017 by Osiris