The trouble with iRealPro, backing tracks and jazz

[project_c]

[font=Helvetica][size=3]Like almost everyone studying and playing jazz, I would be screwed without iRealPro, it’s invaluable to my practice routine as well as for jam sessions. But I’ve noticed that there’s a problem with using this stuff and being too reliant on it. [/size][/font]

[font=Helvetica][size=3]When I’m learning to walk over a tune, or working out a solo for it, I normally have iRealPro running in the background with the bass turned off. I get to a stage where I have a decent solo down and can walk through the tune without too many issues, then I go to a jam or rehearsal, and discover that my solo is sloppy and full of small mistakes, and doesn’t sound as good as I thought. The same applies to playing along to Aebersold backing tracks. My solo will sound great with the backing track, but live the same solo is sloppy. [/size][/font]

[font=Helvetica][size=3]This has been bugging me a lot recently, and I usually just put it down to nerves ‘on the night’ affecting my playing, but after some thinking I turned off the drums in iRealPro and replaced them with a click on 2 & 4, and lo and behold, my mistakes were more audible. I then turned off the chords too, and realised that my solos sounded disconnected and abrupt in isolation with just a click track. [/size][/font]

[font=Helvetica][size=3]Essentially the backing tracks were giving me a false sense of being on top of the tune. When you make a mistake, the backing track just flies past it, and the drums cover up sloppy playing really well.[/size][/font]

[font=Helvetica][size=3]The problem is when you take a bass solo in real life, other instruments tend to drop out, and even the drums can give you no more than a single hi-hat, and your solo has to stand up to scrutiny even when there is no support or backing behind it. So your solo has to sound decent even if it is completely in isolation.[/size][/font]

[font=Helvetica][size=3]I’m sure this is obvious to more seasoned jazz guys but it’s a big game changer for me, I’ve changed my practice routine and I’m re-visiting all the tunes I know to iron out mistakes by playing all my solos in total isolation, with perhaps just a click on 2 & 4 to make sure I don’t drift out of time. So I guess my point is - don’t be too reliant on this stuff, it’s great but it will fool you into thinking you’re playing better than you are if you’re not careful.[/size][/font]

Edited April 11, 2017 by project_c

[Bilbo]

You are entering a whole new universe with your playing when you start playing Jazz. A solo is not a pretty prepared thing but needs to exist IN CONTEXT. Playing along with backing tracks of any kind is useful but, yes, you need to be able to make it work in real time. You need to get your head around theme and variations, question and answer phrases etc. I recommend you find some real Jazz players and have a chat about what it is you are trying to do.

[Bilbo]

http://youtu.be/6vzZWAd-k_I

Listen to this. At the end of Herbie Hancock 's piano solo, Branford Marsalis picks up the closing phrase and constructs an entire solo by buiding on that four note phrase, moving it around his horn. Listen to it closely. That is what a Jazz solo should do.

[project_c]

[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1491948354' post='3276773']
You are entering a whole new universe with your playing when you start playing Jazz. A solo is not a pretty prepared thing but needs to exist IN CONTEXT. Playing along with backing tracks of any kind is useful but, yes, you need to be able to make it work in real time. You need to get your head around theme and variations, question and answer phrases etc. I recommend you find some real Jazz players and have a chat about what it is you are trying to do.
[/quote]

Thanks, I am aware of this and do play with a lot of jazz players, and have done so for a while but I am not at a stage where these things come without significant preparation and learning. I am still learning the language, and will be for some time, so I can't just pull stuff out of the hat without having some framework prepared in advance. It's not about having a pretty ready made solo, it's more about having a set of options ready in advance. The call / response stuff and fully improvised stuff you're talking about comes much later but it's what i'm working towards.

It's easy for guys that are many years deep into playing jazz to forget how long it takes to get to the stage you are taking about. I understand exactly where I need to be but to get to that takes years of learning and transcribing, and applying the stuff you learn and transcribe.

Think about the actual process behind being able to come up with the example you posted. To get to that stage, those guys have internalized a wealth of information which probably involved memorizing licks, solos, chord progressions etc.

[The Jaywalker]

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Edited November 28, 2017 by The Jaywalker

[project_c]

[quote name='The Jaywalker' timestamp='1492186352' post='3278578']
A large part of your issue, rather than using playalongs, is the standard of backing you're getting when you perform. If the piano barely plays or drops out and the drummer does that awful hi-hat thing then that leaves little to no harmonic or rhythmic context for your solo - perfectly good phrases can sound less logical as a result. There's an NHOP interview where he references this by saying something like "plinky-plink-splat...who the hell can play a solo over that!"
It's not 1952 anymore: bass solos dont need to be unaccompanied unless we ask for it that way. Tell the guys you play with that you need the same backing as anyone else, just at a lower dynamic. Could be some issues if the piano player is still subconsciously listening to you for changes and form (commonly happens), so be prepared for the odd form mishap etc as you all get used to it. Once the mental leap has been made to supporting you rather than being supported by you, then things should work out better for your solos:-)
[/quote]

This is all very true - I hate being abandoned during a solo, one of the pianists I play with is particularly bad at this, his comping and general feel and time is crap, so the band usually supports him and without the bass he either fumbles around a lot or just plain stops playing. I've spoken to him about it and it's going to change slowly, but it will take some time. Can't really fire him because in that particular band, he's the leader. Every other musician in the band is great, but we have no guitars which means he has rhythm section responsibilities, and he is neglecting them, probably through lack of ability more than anything.

Having said that this is not quite the point I was getting at. It was more about the tools we use to practice both our solos and our walking lines, and the fact that they cover up too many mistakes and sloppy playing. It's not so much about our note choices, more about the quality of the playing itself. Since I started this thread I've changed they way I practice and I now just use nothing but simple hi-hats playing a straightforward pattern to test of how my solos sound in isolation. It has highlighted a lot of issues.