Twigman Posted April 12, 2017 Share Posted April 12, 2017 (edited) We've decided we'd like a multitrack off the desk of one of our forthcoming gigs. The next gig is at a venue with a Soundcraft EH3 desk - this is old tech totally analogue so would need a fair bit of gear to get a multitrack from. The gig after that is at a venue with a Midas Pro1 desk. This is a digital mixer but I'm struggling to see how to get digital audio out of it. It seems to not have any optical connections but passes audio via ethernet. The Midas peripheral software (offline editor via network) only works on Mac/iPad. I only have a Windows 7 PC running Sonar Platinum and a MOTU 828X ( takes 16 inputs via ADAT optical)..... Other than taking a bundle of XLR/TRS cables and perhaps a 2nd 828X to take a multitrack via the analogue outs, does anyone have any advice (other than buy a Mac/iPad) to get digital multitrack off the desk??? I can't talk to the venue ( it's in Spain and the man in charge of the desk isn't a great English speaker). Edited April 12, 2017 by Twigman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubsonicSimpleton Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 If the desk uses DANTE as the protocol for passing audio, I think it is possible to get a virtual soundcard app that allows you to use the ethernet port on the PC as a virtual soundcard which would allow you to just connect the desk to the PC with an ethernet cable. https://www.audinate.com/products/software/dante-virtual-soundcard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike257 Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 (edited) Pretty sure you need to connect a Klark Technik DN9650 to the AES50 port of the Midas, and the 9650 needs to be loaded with either: A: a Dante card which can be connected to a computer running Dante Virtual Soundcard Or B: a MADI card which can be connected to a computer with something like an RME Madiface in between I'd start with asking the venue if they're happy to facilitate it, as it's a bit of extra faff and configuration for the guy behind the desk to worry about, when he's likely to already be dealing with tight changeovers and all the other complexities of a live show. If he's happy to do it, I'd approach a pro audio hire company local to the venue and enquire about the kit. Might have to do a bit of ringing around as it's quite specialist equipment and will probably only be carried by rental houses that predominantly use Midas consoles. If it looks like it'll all come together, I'd go in there with a well prepared template file in your DAW of choice, and have an extra person with you to operate the recording laptop, as there's every chance that the house guy might be pressed for time to check it's all good before your show starts. I'd also suggest either bringing along or asking the venue to supply ambient mics to be recorded along with the rest of your input list. These can be phase aligned with the rest of your mix and blended in to add the feel of something actually happening in a real space, and can be brought up at top and tail of tracks to give crowd noise etc. Edited April 13, 2017 by mike257 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike257 Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 Another alternative is to check if the venue is also running a monitor desk and if that is going to be simpler to take a feed from. If it's another Pro series on a digital split from a Midas stagebox then it makes no difference, but if it's a different desk on an analogue split, you might be able to find an easier solution. In fact, if it's a different house monitor desk, you could (with agreement of the venue) hire something like a Midas M32 (or Behringer X32) to be used as house monitor console for the night, as that has a 32x32 USB interface on board and is much simpler to record from. If there's no monitor guy, it might even be cheaper hiring an M32 locally for the house FOH guy to mix your show on and taking a multitrack over USB. Not as nice a console, but perfectly capable of mixing a great show and much less complex to record from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike257 Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 Also - the Mac/iPad editor software is irrelevant here as it doesn't transmit audio to the host device, it's solely for control of the console. So definitely don't go and buy a Mac/iPad for that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike257 Posted April 14, 2017 Share Posted April 14, 2017 Woke up today with another option to consider! If you've already got eight analogue inputs to your computer from the 828x, you could add a Behringer ADA8200 for ~£150 and give yourself a 16 input recording system, then just get a couple of TRS to XLR looms and record from the direct outs of the Soundcraft MH3 - assuming you can fit it on to 16 channels, that is. Cost difference between buying that and hiring the digital stuff will be negligible, and you have the benefit of expanding your own recording rig in the process Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crez5150 Posted April 14, 2017 Share Posted April 14, 2017 [quote name='SubsonicSimpleton' timestamp='1492075921' post='3277656'] If the desk uses DANTE as the protocol for passing audio, I think it is possible to get a virtual soundcard app that allows you to use the ethernet port on the PC as a virtual soundcard which would allow you to just connect the desk to the PC with an ethernet cable. [url="https://www.audinate.com/products/software/dante-virtual-soundcard"]https://www.audinate...rtual-soundcard[/url] [/quote] This is the easiest way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike257 Posted April 14, 2017 Share Posted April 14, 2017 [quote name='crez5150' timestamp='1492165307' post='3278383'] This is the easiest way [/quote] I'm pretty sure you can't Dante directly out of a Pro1 and you need the DN9650 network bridge with a Dante card fitted to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twigman Posted April 14, 2017 Author Share Posted April 14, 2017 (edited) Thanks for the advice, chaps VERY helpful..... I have access to 2 828x machines (which I could piggyback and sync) for free so suspect the old fashioned record from the direct outs on the old analogue board will be the cheapest solution.. 2 828xs +PSUs and 16 XLR/TRS leads is quite a lot of extra hand luggage....but needs must Edited April 14, 2017 by Twigman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike257 Posted April 14, 2017 Share Posted April 14, 2017 No worries, hope you get sorted one way or another! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twigman Posted April 18, 2017 Author Share Posted April 18, 2017 (edited) [quote name='mike257' timestamp='1492118829' post='3278168'] Pretty sure you need to connect a Klark Technik DN9650 to the AES50 port of the Midas, and the 9650 needs to be loaded with either: A: a Dante card which can be connected to a computer running Dante Virtual Soundcard Or B: a MADI card which can be connected to a computer with something like an RME Madiface in between I'd start with asking the venue if they're happy to facilitate it, as it's a bit of extra faff and configuration for the guy behind the desk to worry about, when he's likely to already be dealing with tight changeovers and all the other complexities of a live show. If he's happy to do it, I'd approach a pro audio hire company local to the venue and enquire about the kit. Might have to do a bit of ringing around as it's quite specialist equipment and will probably only be carried by rental houses that predominantly use Midas consoles. If it looks like it'll all come together, I'd go in there with a well prepared template file in your DAW of choice, and have an extra person with you to operate the recording laptop, as there's every chance that the house guy might be pressed for time to check it's all good before your show starts. I'd also suggest either bringing along or asking the venue to supply ambient mics to be recorded along with the rest of your input list. These can be phase aligned with the rest of your mix and blended in to add the feel of something actually happening in a real space, and can be brought up at top and tail of tracks to give crowd noise etc. [/quote] Thank you very much for your advice. I have secured the loan [b]FOR FREE[/b] of a DN9650 with a MADI network card AND an RME MADIface USB complete with 30m CAT5 - this will allow all the gear to be on stage and allow me to start recording at the start of the show and some BNC cable for the weekend. The owner is even cool with me taking it to Spain!!! And the venue are cool with it and have confirmed an open AES50 port on the Pro1 I've also managed to get hold of a 250Gb external SSD (USB3) (I do have internal SSD too but it's getting full) to collect all the audio on......we'll have a live album yet - you heard it here first folks! THANKS! Edited April 18, 2017 by Twigman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twigman Posted May 22, 2017 Author Share Posted May 22, 2017 Thanks to the advice given here the recording was a success! It took a while for FOH to work out how to route tracks to the correct AES50 port but once that was sorted it all worked great. The language barrier didn't help. THANKS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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