Fretless:: Lined or Naked?

[rubis]

I made my own with quarter lines, best of both worlds

[drTStingray]

It has to be blank plank for me, purely for the look if nothing else.

As an avid Pino fan, his Musicman has no lines so I don't buy the neccessity of them as extolled by other worthies of bass mentioned in this thread. My Fretless Stingray has no lines - bought used but I was very pleased it was unlined.

I rely a bit on the dots on the top of the fretboard (one very dark gig made this very clear to me - and made me use my ears more). I also struggle with intonation more above fret 12, especially if I haven't played Fretless for a while.

As you would guess, I'd suggest unlined.

I've used mine live and in the studio - generally no problem with intonation although it did shock me initially that I needed to learn to play accurately. That said it didn't take long to acclimatise and I used the bass on most of a recording a couple of weeks after receiving it without problems.

Edited April 17, 2017 by drTStingray

[JoeEvans]

[quote][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]I'm thinking of getting a 5 string fretless. I like the Marcus Miller (I think). It has a lined neck.[/font][/color][/quote]
Find a five-string fretless you really like. If it has lines, then lines are good. if not, then no lines is good.

[radiophonic]

Lines. Unlined lookscooler but I'm under no illusions about my intonation and I need the training wheels. I only started playing fretless late last year and I was actually pretty surprised that it wasn't as hard as I'd feared. I guess I've got the 34" scale more or less programmed in by now. If I had infinite spare time to practice - rather than a job and two kids - then I'd aspire to an unlined neck but in reality I'm just never going to have the time to get good enough. Anyway, Jaco and Mick Karn had lines, so I don't feel too bad about it.

[Pinball]

[quote name='radiophonic' timestamp='1492496987' post='3280623']
I guess I've got the 34" scale more or less programmed in by now.
[/quote]

An important point there for me as I really struggled to play fretless until I got a fretless that was similar to my Musicman bass. After that it just felt and sounded right and gave me the confidence to stick at it. I didn't need the lines at all.

[Rothko]

I've got a lined fretless, but rely on the side lines 90% of the time, especially when playing strapped on. I've got no problem at all with the dots being in the 'fretted' positions - it makes transitioning between fretted and fretless visually seamless.

+1 on the improvement to fretted playing fretless makes - it's possible to get really lazy and sloppy in fretted l/h technique, and playing fretless really shows this up. I've got the fretless set up so it's in tune when I'm playing just behind the fretline - so in exactly the same place I'd place my finger on a fretted bass.

[dmccombe7]

[quote name='Mastodon2' timestamp='1492450954' post='3280372']
He can play unlined with no issues, but says he prefers lines because he is a "visual" player in that he relies less on muscle memory and visualises a lot of patterns on the board. That's fair justification I think, it's just whatever works for the individual.

He does say that he thinks new fretless players should start out with lined, just to help their eyes program their muscle memory. It's just a suggestion though, we're all free to make our own choices.

Personally I prefer unlined but have not yet owned a fretless bass, but I've played a few, never spent any real time on them yet. I will be getting one at some point and haven't decided which way I'd go. Those Ibanez lines on the side of the fretboard look great. I also like the lines where they have a tiny bit of each fret line on the board for a centimentre or so, to make it look almost unlined but still having a visual reference on board. If Alain Caron likes a little pointer here and there then I wouldn't feel to ashamed to have them either!


[/quote]

My Overwater 6er fretless has the additional markers between G & C strings from 12th fret up and it seems like a great idea but when playing i find you can't actually see those markers unless you tilt the bass upwards a bit which isn't practical playing live.
I'm no expert on fretless and this bass was me getting back into playing in bands again after 20yr gap and i wanted to tax myself a bit. It was also a 50th pressie from my wife so wanted something quite special.

[attachment=243295:LindavidOverwaterB#E442C6.jpg]

I've had lined and unlined fretless basses over the years but never really found the lined version (WAL bass) really helped that much. If you only have one bass and its a fretless and you play it often enough you get used to getting it right very quickly.

I've used them in rock, prog and jazz-rock bands over the years. Some like it some don't.

If you feel "safer" with lines then go for it.
Have to say i do like the Ibanez idea of 1cm lined on edge of the neck.

Dave

[franzbassist]

Side dots only for me. Anything else just confuses....

But people should go with what works for them.

Edited April 18, 2017 by walbassist

[Japhet]

I've got a lined fretless because I'm not very good at it and don't practice enough to get better. There, I said it.

P.S. I've also heard a few players who could do with lined necks.

Edited April 18, 2017 by Japhet

[geoffbyrne]

Whatever works for you. I learned on unlined, so that's my preference.

G.

[Chris2112]

I'm happy with an unlined board. My first and best fretless basses have all been unlined, and once your hand and ear are settled in you should have no problem. I'd probably be faster and a little more accurate with lines, but I don't profess to be a wizard anyway.

The important thing is to keep practicing with music, so that you can hear when you're getting your notes in tune. Playing with a perfectly intonated instrument like a keyboard is the real test of how good you really are!

[Bass Culture]

My first fretless was a lined Aria SB900. Sold it and went through several years of various unlined fretlesses before ending up again with a lined fretless, which I just feel much more comfortable on. Don't really know why, perhaps simply because it's what I learned on. One thing though is that lined fretless basses tend to have the lines placed where the fret would be - which, because of the idiosyncracies of the tempered scale, is not precisely where the note is located. Higher up the neck the note is located incrementally further behind the fret. We're not talking inches, obviously ( ) but even though I prefer a lined neck I'm kidding myself really if I think it's because I'm in tune on the line.

[ambient]

What on earth have looks got to do with anything?

It's all surely about being able to play accurately in tune.

What have Jaco, Gary Willis, Steve Lawson got in common?

[Steve Browning]

[quote name='Jus Lukin' timestamp='1492455285' post='3280434']
He seems like a lovely guy and quite the player, but we should be careful of the deification of folks. There's a logic in using lines to aid intonation, but there's a hell of a lot of logic in improving your ear and muscle memory too.
[/quote]

This was sort of why I replied as I did. We all play as we play. No-one can play like me as well as I can and, similarly, I can't play like anyone else either. That's just as it should be.

In truth it doesn't matter either way. I happen to prefer the look of an unlined (and both of mine are unlined) but that's just me.

The fact that I could never get the hang of slapping led me to tell anyone that it wasn't a valid way of playing a bass. Maybe I should change my username to Devil's Advocate.

[Grangur]

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1492520598' post='3280881']
What on earth have looks got to do with anything?

It's all surely about being able to play accurately in tune.

What have Jaco, Gary Willis, Steve Lawson got in common?
[/quote]
Looks: Have you seen the other threads where folk argue over the merits of "Candy Apple Red" or "Lake Placid Blue"? (They then pooh-pooh the effect if tonewood, but that's another can of worms)

Jaco, Willis and Lawson? Phuur! What do they know? We're MEN here! We're tough. We know what we're doing!

Edited April 18, 2017 by Grangur

[LiamPodmore]

I work on muscle memory mostly and last time i played an fretless it was unlined and i didn't seem to have any issues. Personally i'd always get unlined just because it looks nicer IMO.

[Grangur]

[quote name='dmccombe7' timestamp='1492502499' post='3280660']
My Overwater 6er fretless has the additional markers between G & C strings from 12th fret up and it seems like a great idea but when playing i find you can't actually see those markers unless you tilt the bass upwards a bit which isn't practical playing live.
I'm no expert on fretless and this bass was me getting back into playing in bands again after 20yr gap and i wanted to tax myself a bit. It was also a 50th pressie from my wife so wanted something quite special.

[attachment=243295:LindavidOverwaterB#E442C6.jpg]

I've had lined and unlined fretless basses over the years but never really found the lined version (WAL bass) really helped that much. If you only have one bass and its a fretless and you play it often enough you get used to getting it right very quickly.

I've used them in rock, prog and jazz-rock bands over the years. Some like it some don't.

If you feel "safer" with lines then go for it.
Have to say i do like the Ibanez idea of 1cm lined on edge of the neck.

Dave
[/quote]

Dear Dave,
I've been GASsing for a fretless Overwater 5 or maybe 6 fretless. And you have a truly beautiful bass I'd love to try.

I don't suppose you fancy moving slightly closer to the M25 sort of area do you?

[Geek99]

[quote name='TheGreek' timestamp='1492447100' post='3280309']




I luuurve the look of an unlined board...that minimalist look...been trying to find somebody who makes black frets (for my fretted basses) to no avail.
[/quote]

You could always "paint it black"

I'll get me coat

[dmccombe7]

[quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1492522670' post='3280903']
Dear Dave,
I've been GASsing for a fretless Overwater 5 or maybe 6 fretless. And you have a truly beautiful bass I'd love to try.

I don't suppose you fancy moving slightly closer to the M25 sort of area do you?
[/quote]

I can send it down for a few weeks to let you try it or i'll just bring it down. Its only 800 miles round trip

Seriously they are fantastic basses. Not cheap but being an hours drive from Chris at Overwater it was easy for me to visit and try one.
I don't class myself as a fretless bass and i don't use them enough to be as good as i should be.
I guess i just like my 4 strings fretted as they are a bit more practical for what i need.

Surely there must be someone nearer you with one that would let you try it out. Or even a local bass shop. Would have thought Essex is virtually London for us Scots Well to be honest anything South of Watford is London

Dave

[EliasMooseblaster]

I've owned both. When I started with an unlined RB Corvette, I became quite confident below the 12th fret, but my intonation definitely became quite dodgy further up. The following year, I traded it in for a (lined) Fender Jazz, and was quite surprised by how much the lines didn't help! They certainly gave me some reassurance as to where the notes were supposed to be, but if anything they emphasised how much a subtle nudge or roll of the fingertip could throw off my intonation at the top of the neck.

Last summer, I part-ex'ed the Jazz to pay for the unlined Tony Franklin I'd been dreaming of. The dusty end is now a bit more of a tightrope without the visual guide, but if it forces me to train my ears rather than my eyes, that surely can't be a bad thing. Plus that blank ebony board does look lovely!

[Grangur]

Well, I've been and done it now...

Just pressed the trigger on a Marcus Miller 5
https://m.thomann.de/gb/marcus_miller_v7_swamp_ash_5_nt.htm?ref=msg_a_2

Thhe Overwater can wait until I'm more certain that it's what I want. Assuming I can't get one used and Dave's isn't coming my way anytime soon, £3k is too much in my world to pay out and find it's in the Marketplace in no time at a great loss. So the Sire will do me as a starter.

I also ordered some Shaller Lightweight tuners to make it look smoother.

Thanks all for your imput. It makes interesting reading.

[dmccombe7]

[quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1492528511' post='3280968']
Well, I've been and done it now...

Just pressed the trigger on a Marcus Miller 5
[url="https://m.thomann.de/gb/marcus_miller_v7_swamp_ash_5_nt.htm?ref=msg_a_2"]https://m.thomann.de...htm?ref=msg_a_2[/url]

Thhe Overwater can wait until I'm more certain that it's what I want. Assuming I can't get one used and Dave's isn't coming my way anytime soon, £3k is too much in my world to pay out and find it's in the Marketplace in no time at a great loss. So the Sire will do me as a starter.

I also ordered some Shaller Lightweight tuners to make it look smoother.

Thanks all for your imput. It makes interesting reading.
[/quote]

A wise choice. I hate driving to London area to let people try my bass. Worse when i'm not even selling it.

That Marcus Miller 5er is a good price and looks really nice. Probably more practical too and you'll get more use from it i would think.
6 stringers can be quite heavy and sore on the neck muscles if using a full gig or rehearsal for that matter.

Good luck with the new bass and let us all know your opinion on it.

If you are ever heading up this way Grangur let me know and you can drop in and try out my odd collection of basses.

All the best
Dave

[RhysP]

[quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1492522294' post='3280900']
Looks: Have you seen the other threads where folk argue over the merits of "Candy Apple Red" or "Lake Placid Blue"? (They then pooh-pooh the effect if tonewood, but that's another can of worms)

Jaco, Willis and Lawson? Phuur! What do they know? We're MEN here! We're tough. We know what we're doing!
[/quote]

To me colour choice is important. There are colours that I just don't like & wouldn't own a bass or guitar in those colours.

However, if I was buying a fretless (unlikely as I've come to loathe fretless bass with a passion over the years) I wouldn't care less if it had lines or not if I liked the bass. I don't get this whole "unlined is cooler" thing at all. Do people honestly think people will see them playing an unlined fretless & think "wow, that's really cool, what a badass player"?

[Dandelion]

I have his...

I can't play it..


[URL=http://s1314.photobucket.com/user/lycanthropy1/media/tmp_31859-IMG_20170401_1530342150712544_zpsyzyvrapa.jpg.html][IMG]http://i1314.photobucket.com/albums/t580/lycanthropy1/tmp_31859-IMG_20170401_1530342150712544_zpsyzyvrapa.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

[ead]

Unlined for me but luminlay side dots (on the fret positions).