How long to learn a new track

[lowdowner]

Looking at some new dots today (see http://basslessons.be/transcriptions.php?i=94 for a current example) and it started me wondering how long it took people to learn a new track in readiness for performance?

I realise this depends on the complexity of the track but in the case of Doobie Brothers "Long Train Runnin'" what do you reckon? 2 hours of effort, 8? 16?

Is this a 'how long is a piece of string?' question?

[visog]

So there's two sets of memorisation here: you can probably get the finger memory for the parts quickly, especially playing along with track. Then there's the broader memory of the song for and changes between the different sections. I wouldn't like to commit to your timings but it depends on you and the tune: Ramones or Pink Floyd... very different.

[T-Bay]

I do it in chunks, so each riff/ section then chuck them together. Most stuff I can get down quite quickly then it's just practice practice practice to get it as good as I want it. Easy stuff like Creedance Clearwater Bad moon rising took about 5minutes, some stuff can be a couple of hours spread over a few nights (i divvy up my practice so only do fifteen minutes of new stuff a night unless I really need to squeeze it in). I don't do super complex stuff yet but know that Phantom of the Opera by Iron Maiden, or similar, wouldn't be sorted in that time scale.

[pbasspecial]

I have just learnt 20 tracks over a three week period for a new band.
Get them to where I am 80% happy with them but I know in rehearsals they are probably going to:
1. Change the arrangement
2. Change the bloody key!
I work on the Pareto principle/80/20 rule whereby you get 80% of the result from 20% of the effort e.g. 1 hour of practise will get you 80% and 5 hours will get you 100%.
I am experienced enough that I wouldn't want to spend 5 hours of my free time learning a song and then they either do 1 and/or 2 or possibly no. 3. Which is drop the song all together. Now that's really annoying but have only lost 1 hour as opposed to 5.

[inthedoghouse]

A lot can depend on if I've heard the track before as well as how easy/difficult it might be. One of my biggest probs (in the main) isn't so much learning the parts as remembering where all the changes come if it's song I haven't heard before or often.

As you say, how long is a piece of string. It can be a few minutes or quite a few hours. I usually break things into chunks too. Once I've learnt it I'll keep at it over and over almost ad nauseam until it's well and truly in my head and hands.

[lowdowner]

[quote name='pbasspecial' timestamp='1492719450' post='3282743']
I have just learnt 20 tracks over a three week period for a new band.
Get them to where I am 80% happy with them but I know in rehearsals they are probably going to:
1. Change the arrangement
2. Change the bloody key!
I work on the Pareto principle/80/20 rule whereby you get 80% of the result from 20% of the effort e.g. 1 hour of practise will get you 80% and 5 hours will get you 100%.
I am experienced enough that I wouldn't want to spend 5 hours of my free time learning a song and then they either do 1 and/or 2 or possibly no. 3. Which is drop the song all together. Now that's really annoying but have only lost 1 hour as opposed to 5.
[/quote]

yup - good answer... the 80/20 rule is right IMHO

[chris_b]

I had heard it on the radio years before, but the first time I played Long Train Running was on a gig. I knew it by the end of the second verse.

I rarely play complicated stuff but if anything won't go in I'll just write a chart.

[gjones]

It depends on the song. Long train running has a pretty simple structure so wouldn't take long. It depends on if I know the song by ear. I've got a good ear and pick stuff up pretty fast.

[lojo]

learning the song make up (lines, fills , breaks , middle etc) can be learned very quickly , sometimes 2-3 listens, but keeping a structure and those in your head to perform confidently without notes / sheets is where I struggle , easier for stuff you like or already have heard a million times .

I guess there are 2 parts to playing covers , learning the line and knowing the structures well enough to play without hesitation and be what a bass should be , the absolute rock

Doobie Brothers is a good example , easy line to learn , but so many bands miss getting tight with order of differing verses and the slow down part

Edited April 21, 2017 by lojo

[bazzbass]

my piece of string is 22cms

Ramones song- 5 minutes , tops

Rush or Dream Theatre? allow 2 or 3......YEARS lol

[xgsjx]

2 days ago I was given 5 worship songs to learn for Sunday morning, which is generous as I usually get the set list either Thursday evening or some time on Friday. One of them I've heard before, the other 4 are unknown to me.
I got given links to the Youtube vids & chord sheets as PDFs. One of the songs is not in the original key (it's up a 5th), but it's straightforward enough.
As of last night, I can play all the songs comfortable with the PDFs in front of me. This evening & tomorrow evening I'll spend a couple of hours practicing them without the PDFs, so on Sunday I can enjoy playing.

The good thing about these songs is that they only have about 4-5 chords & are easily broken down into Verse, Pre, Chorus, Bridge 1 & Bridge 2. Then you watch/listen to the MD for how the arrangement progresses.

The other band that I'm in, well the songs are there, but not ready to gig.

[Steve Browning]

I wonder if Alan Lancaster is lurking out there somewhere. Any ideas Alan?

[bassjim]

Long Train Running: If this was a tune alien to me: To get it nailed to the point I could easily adapt to a change to the arrangement, key change ect about an hour. And then I would probably make a note of the arrangement and take it along just as a back up.

To get a something I care about or perhaps more complex right, I could spend a week on and off , possibly more as a work in progress, but then there would be some personal gratification in that which warrants it.

I have a gig this evening where three sets are required. Its a last minuite.com job so some set fillers have been suggested. Billie Gene, Happy, Valerie type stuff. These are gonna get about 20 minutes play through/re-learn each later on but more due to the circumstances rather than any sonic perfection. I'm unlikely to go near these set filling monstrosities till the next panic so probably wont be giving them any real value time any time soon.

[Bilbo]

Depends entirely on what it is. I am working on the melody lines of Fugata by Astor Piazzolla and it is taking forever as the lines are really intricate. Recently learned Most Precarious by Blues Traveller and it took five or ten minutes.

[chris_b]

For me, the wider technique for learning a song is to get the feel, groove, structure and sections sorted. The repeats, intro, outro and riffs come later.

Once you understand the structure and relationship of the sections the key can be moved around as required.

[lowhand_mike]

in the case of the op, i reckon an hour or so and then it would be nailing the extra fills.
but it really depends on the complexity of the song, i'm currently working through Sir Duke, but only get 10-15 minutes here and there to pick it up so it taking a while but with that one its more down to gettting the speed of the main break/riff right, the song itself is fairly straight forward once you have the parts.

[crez5150]

Our band has been booked as the backing band for this years Northern Soul Festival.... So I'm currently learning sets for 6 artists, approx 80 songs. I have between now and September to get it nailed so a good bit of time.

The down side is there are pretty unknown songs, I have the dots which helps but you still need to understand the songs. I've always found that a few days of continuous play in the car/ipod/home system helps massively when coming to pick up the bass and learn the song.

[dlloyd]

Depends entirely on the context. What's the gig? How big is the setlist? How much am I being paid?

For the tune in question... Five to ten minutes to learn a passable version.

As far as rehearsing it goes... depends again on context. With musicians I'm comfortable with, one run through should be enough to produce a tight performance. A band I haven't played with before... depends how good they are.

[Nicko]

Yes, It entirely depends on the song. I Predict a Riot just doesn't want to stick, I Bet You Look Good on the Dancefloor was almost gig ready after 30 mins home practice and a coupe of run throughs with the band.

[lowhand_mike]

[quote name='Nicko' timestamp='1492775265' post='3283114']
Yes, It entirely depends on the song. I Predict a Riot just doesn't want to stick, I Bet You Look Good on the Dancefloor was almost gig ready after 30 mins home practice and a coupe of run throughs with the band.
[/quote]
we had completely the opposite outcome with those two, just goes to show really

[Bilbo]

Also, it depends on how you define learning a song. I have songs where I can play the bass part perfectly but couldn't name a single chord whereas a Jazz musician won't define a song as known unless you can play it in all keys and improvise over the changes.

[Dood]

Yeah, pretty much agree with everything said so far. It depends on the content of the song. Last year I had three dep gigs together for three different bands with only a few songs that were the same between them. I learned all three sets in a month totalling some 80 odd tunes. What made these songs more difficult to pick up is that one band strung the whole set together via medley versions and interesting musical segways, so not really learning straight from a known source. As a rule, I don't go in with 'nearly right' bass lines ever.

[Japhet]

I always have a few listens through and write down the structure first, and I always take those notes to rehearsal so that when the guitarist launches into the middle 8 at the wrong time I know I'm right. Learning the actual song can be anything from a few minutes to eternity and beyond in my experience.

[leschirons]

The upside of being an old git in his mid 60s is that I've heard hundreds of thousands of songs over the years. I only play in covers bands so the chances are, I've come across 90% of the songs I'm likely to be asked to play even if I've only heard them once or twice. It's still an advantage. Obviously it depends on the song and a lot of the French songs I get asked to play are unknown to me but I reckon I can do a passable version of anything pop or rock in about 30 mins.

At the last gig, we had a request for "I want to break free" Only the guitarist had ever played it and only at home😂

Singer seemed to know the words and the guitarist had learned it in D. We had to up it to E and then went for it. It's not a hard song by any means but familiarity is the key. It was perfectly gig-able and is now in the set.

[Dad3353]

[quote name='dood' timestamp='1492792331' post='3283303']...and interesting musical segways...
[/quote]

Such as these..?



The word you were looking for is, I believe, 'segue'. A common enough mix-up, but always good for a quick chortle.