Item Damaged by courier...Advice needed.

[fleabag]

The point is, that even if you win, and they dont pay, you dont get the money. You then have to spend more chasing it

The other may well have the CCJ, but the idea of invoking the online action is to get your money back, surely ?

[Twincam]

[quote name='Ghost_Bass' timestamp='1493199047' post='3286361']
That's the port panel on a barefaced cab by the looks of it. I can say from experience that that is a weak spot on the cabs due to the lightweight plywood. I've had to ask the band members to stop lifting my cab by it's side using only the port side handle as it broke the glue and came loose. I had to glue the pannel back.

Having said that i think that i wouldn't take much force to do this damage, just an infortunate situation like the carrier stepping on the box to go over it and catching it in the edge and in the middle of two braces could be enough to break it as it's a weak spot.

In your case, you have pictures to prove the damage in the box, you have payed for insurance, go all the way up to threatning them with court as you're entitled to a refund for the damage. No package handled properly should show signs of exterior damage like that. It was either a big knock or somebody used your cab as a step.

Good Luck
[/quote]

I was going to say I've seen a couple of bf cabs with damage in that area too.
The wood does look rather thin. Not saying it's not strong etc in normal use, but you have to question durability of lighter thinner materials when accidents happen and they do happen.
Again not knocking the design, as I would love a bf cab myself. Just i too have also seen them damaged in that area. A slightly thicker ply in that area would of maybe prevented it. Not that it should of been impacted in transport of course.

To me its clear there's been an impact which really shouldn't happen, but things do happen and that's why they offer insurance and you certainly should be compensated.

[fleabag]

If it was forklift truck forks, there's not much a cab builder can do to prevent that.

[Twincam]

[quote name='fleabag' timestamp='1494092947' post='3293241']
If it was forklift truck forks, there's not much a cab builder can do to prevent that.
[/quote]

True but the others that broke in that area can't all of been hit by a forklift.
But I'm not knocking the cabs as such but evidence may suggest a little weakness there.

Whatever hit it damaged it, the only one at fault is the courier. And they should pay up.

Edited May 6, 2017 by Twincam

[fretmeister]

[quote name='fleabag' timestamp='1494090467' post='3293210']
The point is, that even if you win, and they dont pay, you dont get the money. You then have to spend more chasing it

The other may well have the CCJ, but the idea of invoking the online action is to get your money back, surely ?
[/quote]

Bailiffs will get it, and will add their fees to the debt recovered, and many will abandon those fees if the collection is unsuccessful.

[darkandrew]

Just a thought ... there may be posts on here that you wouldn't necessarily want the other party to see. Maybe it would be an idea to move this thread from a publically viewable area to a "members only" area such as "off topic"?

Edited May 8, 2017 by darkandrew

[timmo]

[quote name='PauBass' timestamp='1493836449' post='3291176']
Sorry about the late reply, been away for a few days.
This is really helpful! I think it is quite clear what happened to mine after seeing those photos.

Is there any chance you can email me these photos, please?

Update:

- Courier company is ignoring many of my emails and fail to provide advice or clear instructions on what to do next to dispute the claim resolution.
- UPS won't deal with me directly as the shipper is ParcelHero but they were quick to contact me when I posted on their Facebook page. On the other hand ParcelHero accept no visitors posts on their Facebook but I did post a comment on one of their posts and they haven even bother deleting it or acknowledging.
- The cab maker has not replied to my email with advice on force needed or a few other questions.
- Visit to Citizens Advice Bureau was useless as I got seen by an old lady that did not have much idea and failed to give any advice, other that ask me to look at their website. I'm going back tomorrow, to a different town, with the hope to find someone a bit more helpful.

This is it for now....Thanks everyone for your help!
[/quote]Sorry Paulbass, I haven`t got the photos anymore. Can you just copy the photos from the thread? I may still be able to get more photos as I am at work tonight , and that box hasn`t moved since I took the photo

[moooper]

Following on from my court date they didn't turn up so the Judge awarded me everything. http://basschat.co.uk/topic/282557-broken-cab-just-arrived/page__fromsearch__1 Stick with it its taken me a year so far.

[PauBass]

[quote name='ProfJames' timestamp='1494054570' post='3292843']
I have issued an online CCJ on three occasions and won each time, This is an online action via a government website and costs around £30. It issues a summons and places a CCJ on both the company address and the name of the person. They get a month to respond and then have to attend court. Frightens the sh*t out of the accused and CCJ actions bugger up their credit ratings.........................

[url="https://www.firstreport.co.uk/Guide-to-County-Court-Judgments.aspx"]https://www.firstrep...-Judgments.aspx[/url]
[/quote]

Thanks, worth a try if they keep ignoring me!

[PauBass]

[quote name='moooper' timestamp='1494331552' post='3295009']
Following on from my court date they didn't turn up so the Judge awarded me everything. [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/282557-broken-cab-just-arrived/page__fromsearch__1"]http://basschat.co.u...__fromsearch__1[/url] Stick with it its taken me a year so far.
[/quote]

Excellent news, well done!
It's taken quite a while, I think that's their game, hoping people will give up before getting to this point.
At least that is my experience so far: slow communication, ignoring questions and points raised on emails, standard copy and paste replies...very frustrating, all I think, in the hope to make you give up your case and move on.

[moooper]

[quote name='PauBass' timestamp='1494349135' post='3295251']


Excellent news, well done!
It's taken quite a while, I think that's their game, hoping people will give up before getting to this point.
At least that is my experience so far: slow communication, ignoring questions and points raised on emails, standard copy and paste replies...very frustrating, all I think, in the hope to make you give up your case and move on.
[/quote]

That's exactly what they do. They did send me a message mid day Friday asking to settle. There offer wasn't even 50% of the cost of repair. I guess the lesson is never give up and be in it for the long haul.

[xgsjx]

I'd be demanding the full cost of repair/replacement and compensation for the time that you're without the cab.
What's the point in their "insurance" if they're not gonna honour it.

[molan]

Having unpacked quite a few cabs in my time I've been able to see how lots of different manufacturers ship things.

The better ones tend to use some sort of synthetic (polystyrene type material) inner 'frame' which sits on the bottom and top of the cardboard box. This holds the cab securely in place and provides a lot more protection than something like bubble wrap to the more vulnerable areas like corners.

It also holds the cab a few centimetres away from the outside of the box. This can mean that if a forklift pierces the cardboard it sometimes doesn't get as far as the cab. Might sound like this is an exaggeration but I've seen a lot of boxes arrive with a pierced side but the cab hasn't been touched.

Porting is another area of weakness on some cabs and there are a few builders who insert foam pads in this area for extra protection. The depth of the ply in the picture doesn't look very thick so, as mentioned by someone else, this might be a weak spot with this cab.

The other thing that does appear to help is to get that white tape with red 'fragile' all over it. Won't stop a really heavy handed courier but does provide some warning and the courier company have less of a chance to dispute that a decent warning wasn't clearly shown in the box hat the contents could be easily damaged. Making sure there are clear directions in which way to stack the box can help too. I sometimes just draw big arrows on the side

My guess is that the courier may say the bubble wrap wasn't of sufficient strength to protect a 'heavy' object and that the box needed to be stronger. I'm not saying they are correct, just that it's the kind of thing I've heard before. To be fair I've not had problems with UPS before, they are usually one of the better couriers and the one we'd use to ship expensive stuff overseas.

[PauBass]

[quote name='molan' timestamp='1494406785' post='3295632']
Having unpacked quite a few cabs in my time I've been able to see how lots of different manufacturers ship things.

The better ones tend to use some sort of synthetic (polystyrene type material) inner 'frame' which sits on the bottom and top of the cardboard box. This holds the cab securely in place and provides a lot more protection than something like bubble wrap to the more vulnerable areas like corners.

It also holds the cab a few centimetres away from the outside of the box. This can mean that if a forklift pierces the cardboard it sometimes doesn't get as far as the cab. Might sound like this is an exaggeration but I've seen a lot of boxes arrive with a pierced side but the cab hasn't been touched.

Porting is another area of weakness on some cabs and there are a few builders who insert foam pads in this area for extra protection. The depth of the ply in the picture doesn't look very thick so, as mentioned by someone else, this might be a weak spot with this cab.

The other thing that does appear to help is to get that white tape with red 'fragile' all over it. Won't stop a really heavy handed courier but does provide some warning and the courier company have less of a chance to dispute that a decent warning wasn't clearly shown in the box hat the contents could be easily damaged. Making sure there are clear directions in which way to stack the box can help too. I sometimes just draw big arrows on the side

My guess is that the courier may say the bubble wrap wasn't of sufficient strength to protect a 'heavy' object and that the box needed to be stronger. I'm not saying they are correct, just that it's the kind of thing I've heard before. To be fair I've not had problems with UPS before, they are usually one of the better couriers and the one we'd use to ship expensive stuff overseas.
[/quote]

In my case the packaging held it together well, whatever hit the box did not pierce the cardboard and it did it not get as far as the cab. The amount of packaging used, tons of bubble wrap, over 13 layers, even more on the corners, thick padded cover and the strong double-lined corrugated box did their job...well, up to a point. The parcel also had big stickers stating "Fragile".

ParclHero are being a right pain, with stupid email replies, pretty much repeating the same over and over again. So far, they have failed to prove how my cab was packed and what aspect of the packaging was insufficient. I have so far receive a so called "report", just a few lines long, provided to them by UPS, in which they merely state my claim is rejected due to insufficient packaging, in there they quote a UPS policy and the International Safe Transit association test procedure for small parcel shipments. They do not provide any facts and information on how the parcel was packed.
Just today I received a set of images, on which they are basing their claim rejection on, and there's not even a photograph of the bubble wrap, according to their images my cab was only packed with the padded cover and then the cardboard box!

My contract is with ParcelHero and I did pack the item according to their criteria, at no point I was provided with any other packaging policy or packaging standards.There seem to be discrepancies between ParcelHero's packaging criteria and that of UPS. This was not for me to know as I wasn't informed of their existence.

Yesterday I had a very productive meeting with an advisor from the Citizens Advice Bureau and the wheels are in motion, I will be following all the recommended steps they advice and go all the way to court if we need to.

Edited May 10, 2017 by PauBass

[molan]

[quote name='PauBass' timestamp='1494431233' post='3295938']
In my case the packaging held it together well, whatever hit the box did not pierce the cardboard and it did it not get as far as the cab. The amount of packaging used, tons of bubble wrap, over 13 layers, even more on the corners, thick padded cover and the strong double-lined corrugated box did their job...well, up to a point. The parcel also had big stickers stating "Fragile".

ParclHero are being a right pain, with stupid email replies, pretty much repeating the same over and over again. So far, they have failed to prove how my cab was packed and what aspect of the packaging was insufficient. I have so far receive a so called "report", just a few lines long, provided to them by UPS, in which they merely state my claim is rejected due to insufficient packaging, in there they quote a UPS policy and the International Safe Transit association test procedure for small parcel shipments. They do not provide any facts and information on how the parcel was packed.
Just today I received a set of images, on which they are basing their claim rejection on, and there's not even a photograph of the bubble wrap, according to their images my cab was only packed with the padded cover and then the cardboard box!

My contract is with ParcelHero and I did pack the item according to their criteria, at no point I was provided with any other packaging policy or packaging standards.There seem to be discrepancies between ParcelHero's packaging criteria and that of UPS. This was not for me to know as I wasn't informed of their existence.

Yesterday I had a very productive meeting with an advisor from the Citizens Advice Bureau and the wheels are in motion, I will be following all the recommended steps they advice and go all the way to court if we need to.
[/quote]

I've had something similar from one supplier who more or less just kept saying 'not our problem' over & over again.

We eventually claimed on our own policy rather than the courier because we just wanted to get it sorted.

The photos without showing the full packaging sound like them trying to get out of their obligations.

Hopefully they'll just give in rather than having the hassle of a court case

[Twincam]

[quote name='molan' timestamp='1494406785' post='3295632']
Having unpacked quite a few cabs in my time I've been able to see how lots of different manufacturers ship things.

The better ones tend to use some sort of synthetic (polystyrene type material) inner 'frame' which sits on the bottom and top of the cardboard box. This holds the cab securely in place and provides a lot more protection than something like bubble wrap to the more vulnerable areas like corners.

It also holds the cab a few centimetres away from the outside of the box. This can mean that if a forklift pierces the cardboard it sometimes doesn't get as far as the cab. Might sound like this is an exaggeration but I've seen a lot of boxes arrive with a pierced side but the cab hasn't been touched.

Porting is another area of weakness on some cabs and there are a few builders who insert foam pads in this area for extra protection. The depth of the ply in the picture doesn't look very thick so, as mentioned by someone else, this might be a weak spot with this cab.

The other thing that does appear to help is to get that white tape with red 'fragile' all over it. Won't stop a really heavy handed courier but does provide some warning and the courier company have less of a chance to dispute that a decent warning wasn't clearly shown in the box hat the contents could be easily damaged. Making sure there are clear directions in which way to stack the box can help too. I sometimes just draw big arrows on the side

My guess is that the courier may say the bubble wrap wasn't of sufficient strength to protect a 'heavy' object and that the box needed to be stronger. I'm not saying they are correct, just that it's the kind of thing I've heard before. To be fair I've not had problems with UPS before, they are usually one of the better couriers and the one we'd use to ship expensive stuff overseas.
[/quote]

Good post

[Sound&Fury]

I'm the guy who bought the cab from PauBass. It was very cool to read so much good info about how to deal with the unfortunate shipping.

But most of all: if anyone stumbles on this thread later on, don't hesitate to buy from Pablo! The cab was very well packaged. And he did everything he could afterwards to find a solution. He is a great person.

[binky_bass]

[size=3][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]I know this might be late in the day but whenever I get shafted by a company I usually go straight to their CEO and make enough noise that it's simply easier for them to cave in that it is to have me keep contacting them... CEOs seem to hate being contacted by anyone and if they have to buy you off or settle with you, they usually do. With that being said, have these details:[/font][/size]

[size=3][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]CEO of Parcelhero: [email="[email protected]"][email protected][/email] - 0208 758 4988 (generic number): [/font][/size]
[size=3][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]CEO of UPS: [email="[email protected]"][email protected][/email] (US) [email="[email protected]"][email protected][/email] (UK)[/font][/size]

[size=3][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]Fire off some stern but diplomatic emails... any CEO worth their salt would rather help a customer and settle a problem than end up in court. [/font][/size]