leftybassman392 Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 It is a bit juvenile if we're honest, but if it's the worst thing we have to worry about today then we'll have done pretty well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yank Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 Hell, once you lose your sense of humor and try to tell others how to phrase things, you might just as well move to a communist country where you'd fit right in. In a free country you can call me a jerk and unless I want to fight you over it, I have to let it slide or insult you right back. Remember, if someone insults you with a smile on their face it's male banter. Sometimes you gotta have a thick skin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beer of the Bass Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 [quote name='Yank' timestamp='1494322224' post='3294905'] Hell, once you lose your sense of humor and try to tell others how to phrase things, you might just as well move to a communist country where you'd fit right in. In a free country you can call me a jerk and unless I want to fight you over it, I have to let it slide or insult you right back. Remember, if someone insults you with a smile on their face it's male banter. Sometimes you gotta have a thick skin. [/quote] Free speech (or as close as we have to it) doesn't exempt you from criticism though. Say what you like, and people will tell you what they think about that; you can't have one without the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpondonBassed Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 [quote name='mep' timestamp='1494272852' post='3294636'] ...I'm I being too PC or just overreacting?... [/quote] Yes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpondonBassed Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 [quote name='Bassassin' timestamp='1494274070' post='3294651'] Since I'm currently not in a gigging band, I'm playing a lot more guitar than bass, that being how I compose. So if I'm now a guitard, that's fine with me. Although I'd prefer to be called a guit@rshole. [/quote] Better than being called a guiturd I suppose... Heeheehee (come back over to the low side) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpondonBassed Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 [quote name='Cato' timestamp='1494280976' post='3294740'] Joshing ginger mates ,fine, almost a duty. Picking on ginger women, misguided. Red and orange are the most beautiful hair colours. I have unusual tastes... [/quote] Ahhh but are you bothered whether the rug matches the curtains? I mean, when I take the wee out of Simply Red I like to humour myself with the fact that he probably has ginger pubes too. Imagine how I'd feel about him if he played guitar as well? For the record, I am envious of Simply Red's success and the above is merely schoolboy banter. I hope you comprehend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikel Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 (edited) Most of us on here are Brits, I believe, so we all get the piss take sense of humor. If we start gasping at any word with "Tard" in it then the thought police have won, and I will move to a country that retains a sense of humor. Edited May 9, 2017 by mikel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandad Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 (edited) Retard is a verb meaning to slow down. As a noun it was used as slang term. I often heard it in the 80's in the USA to call someone stupid or annoying. The fashion nowadays is to not call a spade a spade but to adopt softer, kinder labels to many things in a quest to appear polite and avoid offending. A broad sense of humour by it's nature challenges the status quo as much as any art, if not more so. Pushing/testing the boundaries in society sometimes gives a positive result and sometimes a negative. Often only time will tell if we got it right. The 'Equality and Diversity' courses promoted in many occupations can be rather incredulous. The language a person uses often speaks more about them than the object. To end my waffling, I've accompanied a few musically challenged guitarists over the years. I have also had the pleasure of accompanying one or two fine guitarists. Edited May 9, 2017 by grandad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowdown Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 (edited) [quote name='bazztard' timestamp='1494309846' post='3294788'] It's just banter, ever hear how guitarists put us bassists down? After 36 years I finally came up with an answer back to the "you only have 4 strings to our six" "Yes, but TWO of your strings are tuned exactly the same !" only took me 36 years, pretty quick eh? [/quote] If you are referring to two 'E' strings, you might have a 'Guitard' running off in embarrassment, but I am pretty sure a 'Proper Guitarist' will point out that they are not "tuned exactly the same !", but are tuned two octaves apart from each other. If it was any Guitarists I know, they would also point out you have wasted 36 years of your life. But, as you put it..."It's just banter", and if your post is talking about some other kind of tuning, ignore my drivel. Edited May 9, 2017 by lowdown Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmo Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 I guess that is the problem with humour. There is always someone going to be offended at a joke. Whick jokes are you laughing at which others find offensive. I am reminded of the women who took her disabled son to watch Frankie Boyle. He obviously ripped into her son, and quite rightly, she was offended. We all know Boyle is near the knuckle, so what made her go, and what jokes was she laughing at that was bound to be offensive to others? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikel Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 Thats why Billy Connelly starts his latest tour shows with "Shaking all over" For anyone who is not aware Billy has Parkinsons, amongst other things. He refuses to be beaten down by his illnesses so he laughs at them, to make them smaller and less threatening. It's what the Brits do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat Burrito Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 In my family we actively hate the phrase retard as my step son has Down Syndrome & it is nasty term occasionally used by thick people to describe my step son. Thankfully although still common place in the US, it appears to be in the decline here. The Guitard is clearly a play on that word. I've never publicly challenged anyone for choosing to use the word but I personally find it distasteful and wish people wouldn't use it. Banter can have it's place (I love a laugh and a joke with my friends) but banter can often be a polite phrase for bullying too. That's not the same thing. It always used to be drummer jokes, it seems to have shifted to bass and onto other instruments. I respect all roles within a band but this is more to do with egos and people who don't live up to the role. Thankfully the guitarists in both my bands are class acts. I have worked with a couple of difficult singers in the past though. [quote name='mikel' timestamp='1494339533' post='3295106']Thats why Billy Connelly starts his latest tour shows with "Shaking all over" For anyone who is not aware Billy has Parkinsons, amongst other things. He refuses to be beaten down by his illnesses so he laughs at them, to make them smaller and less threatening. It's what the Brits do.[/quote] The difference is that Billy is taking ownership of his own condition and I agree that is the best of what Brits do. Laughing at easy targets though isn't (not that I'm suggesting that is what YOU are saying but I think this is where some tend to get it slightly wrong). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RhysP Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 [quote name='Burrito' timestamp='1494349111' post='3295250'] The difference is that Billy is taking ownership of his own condition and I agree that is the best of what Brits do. Laughing at easy targets though isn't (not that I'm suggesting that is what YOU are saying but I think this is where some tend to get it slightly wrong). [/quote] Absolutely this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikel Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 [quote name='Burrito' timestamp='1494349111' post='3295250'] In my family we actively hate the phrase retard as my step son has Down Syndrome & it is nasty term occasionally used by thick people to describe my step son. Thankfully although still common place in the US, it appears to be in the decline here. The Guitard is clearly a play on that word. I've never publicly challenged anyone for choosing to use the word but I personally find it distasteful and wish people wouldn't use it. Banter can have it's place (I love a laugh and a joke with my friends) but banter can often be a polite phrase for bullying too. That's not the same thing. It always used to be drummer jokes, it seems to have shifted to bass and onto other instruments. I respect all roles within a band but this is more to do with egos and people who don't live up to the role. Thankfully the guitarists in both my bands are class acts. I have worked with a couple of difficult singers in the past though. The difference is that Billy is taking ownership of his own condition and I agree that is the best of what Brits do. Laughing at easy targets though isn't (not that I'm suggesting that is what YOU are saying but I think this is where some tend to get it slightly wrong). [/quote] Agreed, but the difference is that most guitarists dont have an illness, any jokey term is not used because they are ill and an easy target, because they are not. Its a joke. If it were aimed at someone who was ill that would be entirely different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Number6 Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 Having worked in a heavy industrial setting from the age of 16 i have been called pretty much everything you can imagine. The only exceptions are race and religion which are sacrosanct. After nearly 30 years of daily banter the skin is like saddle hide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris2112 Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 [quote name='mep' timestamp='1494272852' post='3294636'] I'm I being too PC or just overreacting? What do others feel about this term? [/quote] Both. It's terribly modern to be offended by every little thing but there is something to be said for having a certain degree of robustness, to the point where one doesn't need to feel the need to try and censor what others say so that they can feel better. 'Guitard' may seem mildly offensive to some since it's obviously a derivation of 'retard', but I wouldn't break too much of a sweat about it, we're all grown men here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandad Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 (edited) Upon reflection I've edited my post. Guitard is obviously offensive to many, rhyming as it does with retard. As for the comedy thing, much of the material I hear nowadays seems purile. +1 for having a thick skin. I personally couldn't give a dam, (comes with old age), what anyone thinks or says about me, sticks and stones etc. But some are more sensitive. In life one has to learn judgement in social situations. Quite often what you say and how you say it depends on the company. Edited May 9, 2017 by grandad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lojo Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 I totally get Burittos point that it's a play on a word which should not really be used to discribe someone who is challenged in anyway , however I also believe that when it's used as we are the motivation is not in anyway to offend those connected to or struggling with physical and mental challenges. Most likely time to find another word , but the banter should not cease , very much like calling the backs "girls" in rugby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 I totally get Burrito's post too but I actually though Guitard was a play on Bastard if I'm honest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cato Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 Guitarshole has been the best offering so far, if we're looking for an alternative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat Burrito Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 [quote name='mikel' timestamp='1494354739' post='3295310']Agreed, but the difference is that most guitarists dont have an illness, any jokey term is not used because they are ill and an easy target, because they are not. Its a joke. If it were aimed at someone who was ill that would be entirely different. [/quote] I understand why musicians have a cheeky knock at each other, that was never my point. My issue is solely the origins of the word being given a new life. I guess as a moderator I could have taken an issue with this a long time ago... and I didn't. I don't feel personally comfortable with the word myself so choose not to use it but I wouldn't want to restrict the freedom of other's speech. I do think there are cleverer terms we could be using though. And Les, I guess it is open to a number of different interpretations and I massively prefer your one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bassassin Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 [quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1494280630' post='3294734'] I might start a thread about picking on gingers now ......... [/quote] I'm a Ginger Tosser. Knock y'self out... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seashell Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 [quote name='Chris2112' timestamp='1494356061' post='3295326'] Both. It's terribly modern to be offended by every little thing but there is something to be said for having a certain degree of robustness, to the point where one doesn't need to feel the need to try and censor what others say so that they can feel better. 'Guitard' may seem mildly offensive to some since it's obviously a derivation of 'retard', but I wouldn't break too much of a sweat about it, we're all grown men here. [/quote] Except for those of us who are grown women. I really ought to post more! :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 I'd never use the term to offend anyone. I'd never dream of using it to refer to someone whom has a condition or difficulty. I use the term guitard only to refer to those whom are not musically gifted & not willing to learn either. Those that just make a noise & noodle constant piffle. I'm still looking for a phrase to use to describe those baw heedit numpties who turn up for singer auditions & don't know a thing about music or able to hold a decent tune! They rip ma nitting oot!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmccombe7 Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 We all get called names at some point in our life and it makes us who we are. You either take offence with it and suffer or you just laugh it off and get on with living your life. I personally have never seen the need to use the term but its more an age thing for me. Its just not my normal type of vocabulary. Retard is used in many walks of life ie ignition systems can be retarded. It simply means delayed or held back in terms of progression. (not my words - that's the definition) I just accept it as humour and take no offence as its an indirect term rather than specific slander of a named person. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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