The highs and lows of action.

[stewblack]

Since my better half got central heating installed (much against my wishes - I'm a jumper and woolly hat man through and through) all of my basses have to a greater or lesser degree suffered. I picked one up to play last night and the action was a little higher than I like but it's a nice bass so I soldiered on. I noticed that the sound was different. Substantially different and highly variable too. I've always been aware that one can change ones sound by playing closer and further from the bridge, stroking softly or plucking hard etc, but these are all right hand techniques (for a right hander). What I'm discovering is that with a high action there is potential to alter the sound of the instrument with the left too. It seemed somehow more dynamic. Not sure I like it but it is 'twangier' What do people think? Is it worth persevering? Or should I get the action set 'properly' again? What are, if any, the advantages of a high action?
Cheers.

[sgt-pluck]

In my not very experienced experience, I've always got more/better tone with a slightly higher action. Every bass I get, I always set it up as low as I can get it ( which usually equates to medium-low ), and then up it marginally. For me that's about the sweet spot for tone/playability.

Pluck

Edited October 28, 2008 by sgt-pluck

[stewblack]

[quote name='sgt-pluck' post='316425' date='Oct 28 2008, 11:13 AM']In my not very experienced experience, I've always got more/better tone with a slightly higher action. Every bass I get, I always set it up as low as I can get it ( which usually equates to medium-low ), and then up it marginally. For me that's about the sweet spot for tone/playability.

Pluck[/quote]
It's a trade off from what I've noticed. More lively tone for harder playability.

[charic]

i personally like a nice high action on my fender p

[stewblack]

[quote name='charic' post='316483' date='Oct 28 2008, 11:04 AM']i personally like a nice high action on my fender p [/quote]
Why though, charic? That's what interests me. I've always seen action as a no brainer, low as possible = easier to play well. However I am open to new ideas at all times.

[charic]

my theory is if u can play a bass with high action then u can play one with low action. Although if its too low i do tend to rattle as im an aggressive player.

[ped]

I am really fussy about my action. I like it as low as possible because I am a complete wuss. I used to hate the winter because my basses would shift (when the action is so low, a few mm is really noticeable) and as a result I sold a few on, most notable of all was a lovely Pedulla MVP which seemed to shift every day.

Since changing to graphite I have not touched the action at all (well actually I don't ave a truss rod anyway!) but it is fortunately totally solid despite being shifted from cold rooms to car boots to warm rooms and various seasons. Not all graphite necks are the same though, so it is not the be all and end all.

I think a higher action does give the sound you describe - more dynamics possibly because the strings movement is not restricted by proximity to frets and perhaps the distance from the pickups has a part to play. I play REALLY lightly (wuss) so think the dynamics are definitely there with a super low action, but I like the consistency when digging in or slapping. I always find with a higher action the sound I produce is less even and 'slower', but that is my fault for being a wuss.

The advantages high action gives are dependant on the player - some perceive less fret noise, a more rounded sound. I think you should keep at it for a while so you get used to it and then switch back to your previous setup and compare. You could try recording them both and do a blindfold test - you might find they actually sound identical, at which point it boils down to which you prefer the feel of...

Cheers
ped

[mcgraham]

Practically, with slightly higher action than your lowest action, you'll have a lot more dynamic range available to you, as when the action is low, the limit to how hard you can pluck the strings is determined by the height of the action. If you raise it, then you have a greater range over which you can alter your plucking force.

Another 'advantage' (or maybe difference is a better word?) that I've identified as nice (for me) is that the strings are slightly further away from the fretboard (duh!). When they're miles away from the fretboard or it's tiring to play, it's not nice, but I find a little bit of extra distance makes me feel a stronger connection to the instrument. Particularly during hammer-ons/pulloffs/legato, it's very physically rewarding to be effectively physically 'plucking' and 'hammering' with your left hand, instead of just 'touching' your fingers to a higher fret or 'releasing' the string to a lower fret, which is the sort of physical reaction you get when you have a low action. It isn't as easy to play [i]at first[/i], but it feels very rewarding (IMO).

Mark

[Protium]

Setting my precision up atm is proving to be a nightmare - can't get the action any lower than ~4mm @ 12th fret without buzz on/above the 15th fret

[mcgraham]

[quote name='Protium' post='316893' date='Oct 28 2008, 05:39 PM']Setting my precision up atm is proving to be a nightmare - can't get the action any lower than ~4mm @ 12th fret without buzz on/above the 15th fret [/quote]

Sounds like a fret levelling or the like is needed.

[Protium]

[quote name='mcgraham' post='316900' date='Oct 28 2008, 05:44 PM']Sounds like a fret levelling or the like is needed.[/quote]

pwned I'll look into it.

[stewblack]

Thanks guys - all makes a lot of sense. I'm going to do some work on a new song tonight and I'm leaving the action as it is to see how it feels (and sounds)

[mcgraham]

Bear in mind there are all sorts of things you can do to a bass's setup to change its feel. For example, you can have an (almost) completely flat board and a low nut height with saddles raised to give a certain string height at the 12th fret (or whatever fret you like), but you could also add some relief to the neck, same low nut height, and adjust the saddles to attain that same string height at the 12th (or other) fret. They will both feel very different, as the first (flat) setup will have comparatively higher action/string height the further you go up the neck, whilst the second will have comparatively even string height after the first fret or two.

There was even an article with Anthony Jackson on setup where he advocated setting your bass up with a flat board, lowering the saddles, and then actually raising the nut so as to get an even setup over the whole board and also achieve the best intonation possible. Not sure I fully submit to the raising of the nut, but I concur with the flat board being a good thing.

Mark

[Guest]

Hi Stew, i think i know the feeling you describe. I used to try for the lowest possible action but now set mine up higher why? I can play tighter, punchier lines easier. when you only need a tiny amount of pressure to fret a note it's a less positive action.With a higher action you can pluck notes harder if needed also playing staccato notes with left hand damping is easier due to greater pressure when you lift off. As already mentioned this is also good for pull offs as you can't simply lift the fretting finger off as it chokes so i tend to almost pluck the higher note with my left hand, same with the hammer ons you have to be more positive so may be it sounds cleaner?

Quite an interesting thread, Ive never really thought about it before

[Guest]

[quote name='mcgraham' post='317294' date='Oct 29 2008, 08:59 AM']There was even an article with Anthony Jackson on setup where he advocated setting your bass up with a flat board, lowering the saddles, and then actually raising the nut so as to get an even setup over the whole board and also achieve the best intonation possible. Not sure I fully submit to the raising of the nut, but I concur with the flat board being a good thing.

Mark[/quote]

Not sure if i would agree with the flat board myself, a lot of fender type necks seem to bend in an uneven or slightly 's' shaped curve I assume due to the truss rod ending at the heel block, go too flat and low at the bridge and you can get buzzing around the 17th fret area. Personally I would always have a little relief even on a neck through bass.

[stewblack]

I'm starting to like it. At first there was too much noise as I eased off the strings a funny twanging zing which I eliminate by being more 'bold', more 'definite' as I take my finger off if that makes sense.
This exercise has made me look more closely at the instrument in question. I've never been wholly comfy with it and along with the action I'm altering the strap length and eliminating a bit of neck dive with cunning and cable ties. Minor tweaks but it's coming together.

[EssentialTension]

I favour a 'not too low' action. Sometimes I have a tendency to play quite hard with my right hand - 'digging in' I believe some politely call it - and a higher action leaves room for that. However I also feel a higher action makes the bass sound more vibrant most particularly on a hollow or partially hollow bass but even on a solid body. Something about how the whole thing resonates. I think you can hear this if you play without any amplification.