Preconstructed vertical 4x10 cab

[CameronJ]

So I'm sure most of us have read about how stacking a couple of 2x10s together apparently produces a much more evenly dispersed sound (I say apparently as I've never tried it in person) but why is it that I've never seen a 4x10 cab which comes constructed this way? It would be sort of like a "slim fridge". Those of you with photoshop skills feel free to do a mock up.

I guess awkwardness and stability are possible factors here but in many ways I think it would be easier to transport than traditionally oriented 4x10s? Especially with wheels and a top handle. And a modular 8x10 configuration would still be possible by simply placing 2 side by side. You could even angle one of them out slightly to spread the sound out a bit more across the stage.

Is this a ridiculous suggestion? Discuss.

[Conan]

I don't think it's ridiculous - but having two 2x10 cabs gives the added flexibility of being able to use one at a time when both are not needed.

Also, remember that the Basschat membership is only a very small percentage of the bass players across the world, and even in the UK. A lot of our members prefer the vertically arranged 4x10 system, but an awful lot of bass players just use what they've always used - i.e. standard 4x10 cabs or 1x15s for "more bass"...

Edited May 17, 2017 by Conan

[dannybuoy]

I stack a pair of Ampeg SVT210AVs. It's stable as long as nobody bumps into it, but I could see it toppling over at some of the rowdier venues I've heard other members describe playing at!

[Beer of the Bass]

It would be an awkward fit in many car boots - just a bit too long to fit across the width where a pair of 2x10" would fit easily side by side.

[Phil Starr]

There's no reason why not but I guess demand would be limited.

The reasoning behind multi speaker units like 4x10's and 8x10's has disappeared as tech has improved. Older single speakers struggled to handle the heat generated in pro gear and amplifiers were expensive. Putting lot's of cheap speakers in a cab improved efficiency and upped power handling which made sense when all you had for bass was your own stack. As materials have improved you can get relatively low cost PA speakers that can handle bass and a single 2x10 bass cab can be made with speakers that handle 500W+ and match most drummers. It just makes more sense to use two of these and put the bass through the PA if you need more volume.

[Dood]

Ahhh! Takes me back! One of the first PA's a band I was in had those 'lovely' WEM PA cabinets:

[Conan]

[quote name='Phil Starr' timestamp='1495015297' post='3300402'] ...put the bass through the PA if you need more volume.
[/quote]

Fine in principle - but not all of us play in bands (or venues) that have a PA sufficiently robust to put the bass through. I know I don't.

[markstuk]

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1495015775' post='3300415']
Fine in principle - but not all of us play in bands (or venues) that have a PA sufficiently robust to put the bass through. I know I don't.
[/quote]

And I'd still end up storing it and taking it to/from gigs and being moaned at...

[CameronJ]

[quote name='dood' timestamp='1495015522' post='3300407']
Ahhh! Takes me back! One of the first PA's a band I was in had those 'lovely' WEM PA cabinets:


[/quote]

Ha. This is exactly what I had in mind. I hadn't considered the issues of fitting in car boots though.

[markstuk]

[quote name='CameronJ' timestamp='1495020088' post='3300470']
Ha. This is exactly what I had in mind. I hadn't considered the issues of fitting in car boots though.
[/quote]

Easier than a 810 though.. Which usually fits into the boot a medium-large estate car.. I used to have a Tecamp 810..

[Dood]

[quote name='markstuk' timestamp='1495021589' post='3300490']
Easier than a 810 though.. Which usually fits into the boot a medium-large estate car.. I used to have a Tecamp 810..
[/quote]

Similarly, I used to slide the Tecamp 612 in to the back of my estate with plenty of room for bass cases etc Beast of a cabinet, full of Helium, I am sure!

[Phil Starr]

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1495015775' post='3300415']
Fine in principle - but not all of us play in bands (or venues) that have a PA sufficiently robust to put the bass through. I know I don't.
[/quote]

That's true of 80% of my gigs too sadly but there's no point in the bass drowning out the drums and if the PA can't handle bass it can't handle drums. All I'm saying is that 4x10's are enough, and most of us find it more convenient to have them as two 2x10's so the market for 4x10's is shrinking. Most people buying them will be after the retro tone or look of them so won't want a vertical stack.

I too pictured the old WEM collumn when this was first posted. Sweet memories, who else is picturing the Pink Floyd Sleeve?

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

[quote name='CameronJ' timestamp='1495006825' post='3300295']
why is it that I've never seen a 4x10 cab which comes constructed this way? .
[/quote]Because it wouldn't sell. People buy what they're used to seeing, and that's a standard 4x10. In any event, a pair of 210s is more practical, from the standpoint of cartage and the ability to leave one at home when you don't need it.

[dannybuoy]

Spotted one!

http://revsound.net/collections/bass-cabinets/products/rs410vt

[mcnach]

A standard 410 would fit in more cars without trouble than a vertical 410 would, and would be a pretty awkward thing to carry by one person (when I owned 410s, I usually had help but many times I carried the thing by myself up/downstairs and loaded it into my car).
Two separate 210 cabs are even easier... so I guess those who want a vertical 410 end up getting two 210s.

Just like if I wanted an 810, I'd get two 410s instead.

[la bam]

I really like the idea of a vertical 4x10.

Make them 8ohm and you've got potential for monster 8x10 rigs.

The main issue I always had with standard 4x10s was the lift and the elbows out trying to fit through doorways. Was always a nightmare!

With a vertical 4x10 they could fit x2 wheels on the back near the bottom, and you could wheel in like a suitcase easily through doorways.

May also help people who complain they struggle to hear themselves on stage as the speakers would be higher up?

Edited May 18, 2017 by la bam

[Conan]

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1495096066' post='3301167']Just like if I wanted an 810, I'd get two 410s instead.
[/quote]

Vertical ones? Stacked vertically?

[deepbass5]

picking it up correctly can be learned, but getting through doors could be fun.

[stingrayPete1977]

There's a few people on here using a pair of the already quite tall vertical Genz 2x12T 4 ohm cabs with the Genz shuttle 12.0 heads which put 600watt into each cab separately at the same time, talk about trouser flapping! 4x12 vertical, 1200 watts and two adjustable tweeters, lovely.

Edited May 18, 2017 by stingrayPete1977

[mcnach]

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1495107513' post='3301303']
Vertical ones? Stacked vertically?
[/quote]

[Maude]

[quote name='dood' timestamp='1495015522' post='3300407']
Ahhh! Takes me back! One of the first PA's a band I was in had those 'lovely' WEM PA cabinets:


[/quote]

I have a pair of H/H 4x12's in the shed that look just like those.
They sound terrible

[Marty Forrer]

People who struggle to hear themselves don't need vertical 4x10s, they need better quality cabs. Barefaced, Greenboy and BFM are an example of cabs (there are more) that are quality. Most cabs from your local music shop are not quality. They are built with cheap drivers and built to market requirements, not driver requirements. They are also built to maximise profit. An example of a quality cab is my Greenboy Fearful 12/6. One little light cab (32lbs) and it can take a thousand watt power amp. The dispersion, both near and far, is amazing. It will handle a low F# string no problem. Two of them is just ridiculous! Just my opinion.

[Conan]

[quote name='Marty Forrer' timestamp='1495151072' post='3301740']
People who struggle to hear themselves don't need vertical 4x10s, they need better quality cabs. Barefaced, Greenboy and BFM are an example of cabs (there are more) that are quality.
[/quote]

I'll probably get jumped on for saying so, but I certainly agree about the Barefaced cabs. I have owned several (Compact x2, Vintage and Big One) and the dispersion and tone from any of them has been better than anything else I have used - including the much feted Bergantino HD210s I sold in order to buy Barefaced again!

Would love to try BFM and Greenboy if the opportunity arose

That said, I do think that the physical positioning of the uppermost driver is a factor. The closer to your ear height, the better the onstage personal monitoring value.

Edited May 19, 2017 by Conan

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='Marty Forrer' timestamp='1495151072' post='3301740']
People who struggle to hear themselves don't need vertical 4x10s, they need better quality cabs. Barefaced, Greenboy and BFM are an example of cabs (there are more) that are quality. Most cabs from your local music shop are not quality. They are built with cheap drivers and built to market requirements, not driver requirements. They are also built to maximise profit. An example of a quality cab is my Greenboy Fearful 12/6. One little light cab (32lbs) and it can take a thousand watt power amp. The dispersion, both near and far, is amazing. It will handle a low F# string no problem. Two of them is just ridiculous! Just my opinion.
[/quote]

So your not using a 4x10 cab then, maybe there's a reason the manufacturers you mention aren't big on 4x10 cabs, Barefaced only started making one recently and it's apparently not a conventional 4x10 for the reasons of dispersion, crap cabs will always be crap I agree but your comment makes no sense, a cab of the same brand with the speakers laid out differently wouldn't suffer the same dispersion problem, the physics of the 4x10 is the problem which you've overcome with a 12+6 arrangement.

Fwiw those greenboy cabs are fantastic and probably what I'd go for if I needed a new cab!

Edited May 19, 2017 by stingrayPete1977

[la bam]

[quote name='Marty Forrer' timestamp='1495151072' post='3301740']
Most cabs from your local music shop are not quality. They are built with cheap drivers and built to market requirements.
[/quote]

I can't agree with that.

Most of the world best players and biggest bands use amps and cabs easily obtainable from your local store. The likes of Ampeg, Ashdown, orange etc.

If they're good enough for superstars and huge bands, then they're good enough for me! I very rarely see any boutique amps or cabs being used. (as good as I'm sure they are).

Edited May 19, 2017 by la bam