thebrig Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 My guitarist friend and myself have just formed a new band playing lots of AC/DC material, and he's brought his brother-in-law along as our vocalist because he said he can do the Bon & Brian vocals, as it turns out, he can't do them in standard tuning, we tried tuning down half a step and it was still a struggle, so now we are thinking of transposing them. First of all, I don't play, or have a 5-string bass, and I don't particularly want one, so how do I get round this? A vast majority of their songs require the low E, going up to the high E is just not going to sound right, and I feel the songs in general won't have the impact if I'm playing up the board. Any advice would be very welcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MoJo Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 (edited) I use a Digitech 'Drop' pedal. My basses are tuned in standard pitch and I use the pedal to drop to Eb. The pedal drops in half-step increments. It tracks really well. I'm in Sedgley. If you want to pop over, I'll give you a demo. Link to a YouTube video below https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Ux3pEIpxjc&t=55s Edited May 21, 2017 by MoJo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No. 8 Wire Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 (edited) What drop tuning are you trying to get to? I think the rule of thumb is that you can increase your string gauge by 1 for every semitone you drop. So if you use 100 gauge, increase to 110 for a D tuned bass. You might even get to a C tuning that way. What is the guitar player doing? It seems to me that he is going to have bigger problems. ACDC uses a lot of open chords that aren't going to sound right transposed. Another way would be to play up the neck with an octave down pedal applied. Edited May 21, 2017 by No. 8 Wire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebrig Posted May 21, 2017 Author Share Posted May 21, 2017 [quote name='MoJo' timestamp='1495355036' post='3303102'] I use a Digitech 'Drop' pedal. My basses are tuned in standard pitch and I use the pedal to drop to Eb. The pedal drops in half-step increments. It tracks really well. I'm in Sedgley. If you want to pop over, I'll give you a demo. Link to a YouTube video below [url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Ux3pEIpxjc&t=55s"]https://www.youtube....x3pEIpxjc&t=55s[/url] [/quote]Thanks for the offer MoJo, not too far from me, we are actually rehearsing this morning, so I will find out soon what keys the singer is happy with and see how they sound, I will let you know if I need to take you up on your kind offer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebrig Posted May 21, 2017 Author Share Posted May 21, 2017 (edited) [quote name='No. 8 Wire' timestamp='1495356068' post='3303115'] What drop tuning are you trying to get to? I think the rule of thumb is that you can increase your string gauge by 1 for every semitone you drop. So if you use 100 gauge, increase to 110 for a D tuned bass. You might even get to a C tuning that way. What is the guitar player doing? It seems to me that he is going to have bigger problems. ACDC uses a lot of open chords that aren't going to sound right transposed. Another way would be to play up the neck with an octave down pedal applied. [/quote]We've tried half a step which was still a struggle for the singer, I suggested we try a whole step but my guitarist friend says it's too much and the action will be too sloppy, I did suggest heavier gauge strings but he's not keen on the idea. Edited May 21, 2017 by thebrig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 This isn't about what you want. It's about what you need. Tune down and all the required changes that entails, get a 5 string bass and embrace the flexibility or get another singer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 . . . . or choose another band to copy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebrig Posted May 21, 2017 Author Share Posted May 21, 2017 [quote name='hiram.k.hackenbacker' timestamp='1495355516' post='3303107'] My thoughts are that songs are written the way they are for a reason. By all means perform them in whatever key you like, but a lot of them just aren't going to sound the same inverted. [/quote]That's what I'm fearing, AC/DC songs are what they are, and I think that if we start messing around with them they will lose their impact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebrig Posted May 21, 2017 Author Share Posted May 21, 2017 [quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1495356753' post='3303129'] . . . . or choose another band to copy. [/quote]Ouch!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yank Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 Keys are in a circle, you can go up so he can sing lower. If you capo (shudder) you'll have an open string. As much as we might not like it, vocals come first. Do what you must. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 The Who are the same. You can't change any of Pete Townsend's chord shapes or inversions. They just won't work, so poor old Roger Daltry has to keep on hitting those notes when most other singers of his age have dropped their numbers by several keys. Stevie Wonder is still in the original keys but he takes weekly singing lessons to keep his voice in shape. Maybe your singer needs lessons, exercises and advice more than a key change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PawelG Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 I think this is something very brave that you are trying to do. I love AC/DC and I'm actually quite curious what that would sound like in different keys (trying to be as optimistic as possible! :-) ) Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mentalextra Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 This is the problem when you are an enthusiastic fan and know every note of every song, when you hear a cover band that makes changes, it can be painful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebrig Posted May 21, 2017 Author Share Posted May 21, 2017 I appreciate all the advice so far, and I do agree that the singer's needs comes first, but it's not just about the bass lines not having the impact, if the guitarist are playing different chord shapes etc, the overall sound just won't be right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebrig Posted May 21, 2017 Author Share Posted May 21, 2017 [quote name='mentalextra' timestamp='1495358047' post='3303146'] This is the problem when you are an enthusiastic fan and know every note of every song, when you hear a cover band that makes changes, it can be painful. [/quote]Exactly, that's my fear. Well I'm off to rehearsal now so I will find out soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 To die-hard fans they`ll probably notice, to others they probably won`t even care as long as you`re in time and in key (and some might still not care at that point. I`d do the de-tune thing though, playing a high note where it should have gone low isn`t going to feel right to you guys, and that will make cracking the set more laborious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jezzaboy Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 As Lozz says, the die hard fans will notice but it is very difficult to get a bloke who can sing in the original key. The solution is to get a female vocalist but that doesn`t help yourselves. Good luck anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazzbass Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 (edited) [quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1495356753' post='3303129'] . . . . or choose another band to copy. [/quote] this he is not being rude, but you either need a different set of songs to cover, OR you need a singer that can sing ACDC songs. ACDC songs usually involve As and Ds a lot, playing them transposed won't sound right, trust me I know tribute bands where the singer can't copy the original vocalist are very lame, very Edited May 21, 2017 by bazztard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muzz Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 Last time I went to see Whitesnake, they were dropped about a yard so Dave C could keep up. The bassist's E was flopping about like a washing line... If the singer can cope a full step down, you can put a D-tuner on your bass and you're good, but yeah, the guitarist will struggle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FinnDave Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 There's one song in our set that the singer can't manage in E (the original key) so I drop the E string to D, works fine on my Precisions strung 50-105 and my Jazzes strung 45-100. I think if I was playing in that tuning for more than one song, I'd string one bass with heavier strings as a 100 gauge a full step down is little bit slack under the fingers. I only drop the bottom string, I leave the rest in standard tuning, messes with my head if we haven't played it for a while and the singer calls it in the middle of a gig! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 [quote name='hiram.k.hackenbacker' timestamp='1495368998' post='3303246'] Sorry, but I disagree. What about the original artist that can't sing in the original key? Is it fine for them to do it and not anyone else? [/quote] Yes. Rush are writing new material all the time. It doesn't have the ridiculously high pitch vocals anymore. When you see them live, the number of old tunes they play is limited to the really well known, expected tunes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcnach Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 [quote name='thebrig' timestamp='1495353840' post='3303091'] My guitarist friend and myself have just formed a new band playing lots of AC/DC material, and he's brought his brother-in-law along as our vocalist because he said he can do the Bon & Brian vocals, as it turns out, he can't do them in standard tuning, we tried tuning down half a step and it was still a struggle, so now we are thinking of transposing them. First of all, I don't play, or have a 5-string bass, and I don't particularly want one, so how do I get round this? A vast majority of their songs require the low E, going up to the high E is just not going to sound right, and I feel the songs in general won't have the impact if I'm playing up the board. Any advice would be very welcome. [/quote] You will probably be able to get away with changing the strings and detuning the whole instrument. You will still play your E string where the original plays a low E, even if now it is actually a C or whatever your vocalist needs to go down to. I'd rather do that than getting one of those pedals, unless you need to use that same bass for normal tuning stuff too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcnach Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 [quote name='thebrig' timestamp='1495356626' post='3303126'] We've tried half a step which was still a struggle for the singer, I suggested we try a whole step but my guitarist friend says it's too much and the action will be too sloppy, I did suggest heavier gauge strings but he's not keen on the idea. [/quote] well, he's going to have to if he wants to continue playing the right chord versions a few semitones down! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebrig Posted May 21, 2017 Author Share Posted May 21, 2017 Well I've just got home from the rehearsal and we were tuned half-a-step down from the off and the singer sounded fine, and he didn't appear to be struggling too much, but because the guitarists weren't willing to tune down a whole step, he then asked if we could try them in higher keys, and quite honestly, it sounded awful. We are not actually an AC/DC tribute band, but we do want to play quite a bit of their material, but personally, I would rather not play them at all than play them in keys that just don't sound right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SH73 Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 [quote name='hiram.k.hackenbacker' timestamp='1495368998' post='3303246'] Sorry, but I disagree. What about the original artist that can't sing in the original key? Is it fine for them to do it and not anyone else? [/quote] This https://youtu.be/Syf_HS-_Bns Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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