Change a pre amp in a bass, or not?

[Grangur]

Not considered changing the pre in any of my basses in the past, but in another thread someone said about changing the Warwick MEC pre to an Aguilar OBP3. Wanting to find out about this I searched the greatest source of info on the subject; The BC forum.
What I saw is almost references that came up were for basses for sale. So it's not a killer amp to stop folk selling basses is it?

I notice the Aguilar uses an 18v source. So you'll need 2x 9v batteries. I assume you can get both in the Warwick enclosure.

The other consideration is there are 3 pots, but this doesn't cover the volume and blend. So this might not be a conversion for all if you don't want to drill more holes in the bass.

Here's a comparision
http://youtu.be/eCOL-nUm-ps

This does show the Aguilar is better, but If you don't usually boost the bass or treble to the max, will it still be better or is the difference being if you only 50%boost on the MEC, the Aguilar will only need 20%. In which case, is this worth doing?

Here's another set of comparisions
http://youtu.be/CwxXVRxhndA?list=RDeCOL-nUm-ps

Any other thoughts from folk?

Have you upgraded?
Why did you do it?

[Chiliwailer]

I had a Bartollini preamp in my old Lull, couldn't stand it as it's natural tone was way too clean for me, but I totally get why others would love it and berate me for saying that. I ended up playing my passive Lull more so I sold it. If I'd have kept the bass I would have tried a different preamp, like the Aguilar perhaps, because they do alter the tone to their own style. Pretty sure the Aguilar can run on 9v too if theres no space, and that there are different pot selection options.

I'd say it's only worth doing if you love the bass itself, but think the active tone could be better suited to you via different shaping.

[chris_b]

I have no idea what the MEC sounds like and I'm not a fan of Warwick basses in general or any of the sounds I've heard them make in particular, but the OBP3 is a stonking preamp. It has a huge tone, almost too much. A little goes a very long way. Did I say it sounds good? You can run it at 9v or 18v but Aguilar recommend you remove one of the battery clips if you go 9v.

I sold a J5 with the OBP3 preamp and I'd rate it as one of the best basses I've owned. It was sold because I found, in spite of all the good points, I still preferred my passive P bass. People buy and sell gear for a variety of reasons, so I wouldn't draw any conclusions from the "merry-go-round" that is the Basschat classifieds.

[Al Krow]

Hmmm...really good question Grangur and Lukeward raised this as something he is considering doing on the Warwick Streamer advice thread:

[quote name='lukeward2004' timestamp='1494353352' post='3295297']
Preamp wise, I've never had any issues with the stock MEC preamp but I have taken a shining towards the Aguilar obp 3 - dammit now I have to look at getting one on my ss2
[/quote]

I'm just arriving into the world of active basses and wondering whether an on-board preamp, even as good as the Aguilar OBP 3 can ever really go head to head with a quality pre-amp pedal?

If you have the option of both active and passive settings, I'm guessing that passive setting PLUS a Tech 21 Sansamp / Aguilar Tonehammer / Darkglass Vintage Ultra / Mesa Pre, or whatever you particularly like as a pre-amp, will ALWAYS give a better tonal colour and EQ variety than any on-board preamp can deliver?

And the cost of a decent preamp pedal isn't going to be much different to the cost and effort of swapping in something like an OBP 3, once you've paid for labour (unless you've got the expertise to do it yourself)?

Obviously this alternative of "passive PLUS pedal" isn't going to be an option on an "active only" bass.

Edited May 23, 2017 by Al Krow

[Grangur]

Fair point Al K. Also 1 pedal will do basses, where it gets expensive buying on-board preamps for numerous basses.

[prowla]

Well, the Corvette 5-string I had for a while had plenty of space for a 2nd battery.
The Streamer I'm doing is passive, but I reckon there'd be space for two if I did want to make it active.

[Woodinblack]

If you want your preamp to do tonal changing, you are probably better off doing that on the amp or the floor, and just have as close to unity preamp in the bass to maintain the signal until you can get to alter it.

[Al Krow]

[quote name='Woodinblack' timestamp='1495577836' post='3305092']
If you want your preamp to do tonal changing, you are probably better off doing that on the amp or the floor, and just have as close to unity preamp in the bass to maintain the signal until you can get to alter it.
[/quote]

Hmmm...not sure I agree with that, but I suspect I may have misunderstood what you are getting at?

For me a big part of getting a pre-amp pedal is tonal shaping and colour. And indeed having the convenience of tonal shaping even closer to hand, on the bass itself, is obviously great for live playing and that is what the active EQ (aka tone controls) of an onboard bass preamp is providing.

Following your logic to its conclusion, there would be no point having an active bass with a pre-amp at all, or indeed pre-amp pedals. Just go passive, by-pass the onboard EQ, avoid a preamp pedal and go straight into the amp. The end. Ok, that is one philosophy for sure and it's not a bad one. Get the best bass and best amp = great sound.

But if you've got a transparent, but otherwise really good, solid state amp and love the warmth of a valve amp sound but don't want to break your back lugging heavy valve amp gear, then the only real way to square the circle is to embrace the tonal magic that a pedal can provide into the mix.

Just as the tonal shaping of a quality pre-amp pedal is going to be "over and above" that provided by the bass' own internal preamp (which you would definitely expect given the cost and dedicated nature of the pedal vs the cost and quality of preamp hardware in a bass), a dedicated preamp pedal will also likely provide something "over and above" that available from most amps in terms of colour and flavour.

Edited May 23, 2017 by Al Krow

[bakerster135]

Isn't the Tone Hammer pretty much just an OBP-3 in pedal format, but with sweepable mid control and an overdrive circuit? Maybe get one of those and see if you like how it sounds, without having to carve your bass up!?

[chris_b]

[quote name='bakerster135' timestamp='1495616080' post='3305241']
Isn't the Tone Hammer pretty much just an OBP-3 in pedal format[/quote]

. . . . and I believe the TH* amps are and extension of the same.

[Woodinblack]

[quote name='Al Krow' timestamp='1495581696' post='3305123']
Following your logic to its conclusion, there would be no point having an active bass with a pre-amp at all, or indeed pre-amp pedals.
[/quote]

Obviously you can't have an active instrument without some kind of preamp by definition. But the preamp is there primarily to buffer your signal so that your tone is not decide by your cable and to cut down on noise by giving you a low impedance outpu. Tone shaping is provided because you might as well as you have a preamp there.
If you have a decent quality preamp it should not be noticeable with a perfect and short cable, except a slight loss of treble on the passive due to the tone cap. On the g&l L2500 (and probably the other Ls), the tone controls are entirely passive with an active preamp afterwards for buffering

[bassjim]

Been using a preamp pedal for about 2 years now with a passive bass.
Plus points:
Bass is as it was. No gut changing.
Can use it with other basses.
Its very much set and forget. Maybe every now and then I bend down to make minor adjustments but these are usually set and forget once done on a gig.
Can use the passive tone control on the bass at the same time for even more tonal options.
You get a bit of a boost in the signal chain so you get the same omph as an active without having to turn the gain up on the amp further than you might be happy with.
Volume control to adjust the gain. (didn't know how useful this was till I got this pedal).
It works.
Has as seperate (the one I use) tuner out and DI out.
Has a light that tells me if the battery is low.
Can also use mains power.
Mute switch.
Minus points:
Nope.

Edited May 25, 2017 by bassjim

[Grangur]

[quote name='bassjim' timestamp='1495723503' post='3306155']
Been using a preamp pedal for about 2 years now with a passive bass.
Plus points:
Bass is as it was. No gut changing.
Can use it with other basses.
Its very much set and forget. Maybe every now and then I bend down to make minor adjustments but these are usually set and forget once done on a gig.
Can use the passive tone control on the bass at the same time for even more tonal options.
You get a bit of a boost in the signal chain so you get the same omph as an active without having to turn the gain up on the amp further than you might be happy with.
Volume control to adjust the gain. (didn't know how useful this was till I got this pedal).
It works.
Has as seperate (the one I use) tuner out and DI out.
Has a light that tells me if the battery is low.
Can also use mains power.
Mute switch.
Minus points:
Nope.
[/quote]

Thanks Jim. I think that's the way I'll go. I'll experiment a bit more with the Zoom B3 for now.

[fretmeister]

I am very interested in this.

My main bass is a Marleaux Consat Custom. It sounds great but sometimes I wish it was a bit more aggressive sounding.

The pickups are Delano and I don't think the shells are the same size as any other makes to just drop some in, and I'd like to avoid routing. The bass has a Glockenklang preamp but I'm wondering about a swap to something more sizzly. Maybe the Darkglass Tone Capsule.

It's either that or asking someone like Nordstrand to make custom pickup sizes but that would be really quite expensive!

[Grangur]

[quote name='fretmeister' timestamp='1495795628' post='3306655']
I am very interested in this.

My main bass is a Marleaux Consat Custom. It sounds great but sometimes I wish it was a bit more aggressive sounding.

The pickups are Delano and I don't think the shells are the same size as any other makes to just drop some in, and I'd like to avoid routing. The bass has a Glockenklang preamp but I'm wondering about a swap to something more sizzly. Maybe the Darkglass Tone Capsule.

It's either that or asking someone like Nordstrand to make custom pickup sizes but that would be really quite expensive!
[/quote]
Have you thought of changing the body wood to maple? That can give more attack to the sound.





Joking aside, Nordstrand would only be interested if you want 500+

You could mail Jess Loureiro. He specialises in custom pups.
http://jlguitars.com/

[chris_b]

From what I've read a Glock pre amp is more smooth than aggressive, so that's probably where your attention should be. Replace the preamp rather than the pickups.

But I'd first try an outboard preamp/pedal.

[fretmeister]

[quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1495797025' post='3306673']

Have you thought of changing the body wood to maple? That can give more attack to the sound.





Joking aside, Nordstrand would only be interested if you want 500+

You could mail Jess Loureiro. He specialises in custom pups.
http://jlguitars.com/
[/quote]

Not true. They offered to build me a 1-off single coil last year with 17.5mm spacing.

Unless they've changed policy lately.

[Grangur]

I stand corrected. Really surprised though. I imagined it was all highly automated mass manufacture.

Thank you.