Combining a 210 and a 410 - contradicting information.

[citymariner]

Hello all,

I've a question I believe I had the answer to, thanks to this forum, however, I'm now questioning my thinking.

I've a Markbass 210 and looking for flexibility so wanted to get a 410 so I could run three combinations.
I'm sure I've read that even if both cabs are 8ohms that power will be distributed unevenly between the cabs meaning the 210 will get to the limit before the 410 causing there to an imbalance.

Whilst perusing the MarkBass website I saw that the standard 410 cab states the following:

[i][size=3][color=#333333][font=Oswald, sans-serif]"The [/font][/color][b]Standard 104HR[/b][color=#333333][font=Oswald, sans-serif] is an exceptional, professional cabinet that performs well in any club, big or small. It puts out impressive power at 800 watts and weighs only about 49 lbs. Working bassists love it for its power, high-quality sound and portability. The [/font][/color][b]104HR [/b][color=#333333][font=Oswald, sans-serif]is designed for standalone use [/font][/color][color=#ff0000][font=Oswald, sans-serif]or combination with[/font][/color][color=#333333][font=Oswald, sans-serif] a [/font][/color][b]Standard 151HR[/b][color=#333333][font=Oswald, sans-serif] or a [/font][/color][b]Standard 102HF[/b][color=#333333][font=Oswald, sans-serif]."[/font][/color][/size][/i]

This has confused me. I can't see anything that means that sends them into a different wiring configuration etc.

Is MarkBass talking crap?

Is it actually fine running a 410 with a 210 as long as you don't push to the max (and they are both 8ohms) and it's just the maths that identifies an issue that doesn't actually have real-world effects (if that makes sense)?

Thanks in advance,

Josh

[Woodinblack]

If you have two cabs which are a perfect 8 ohms, then they will get exactly half the power each. If they have the same power rating they will get to the limit at the same time.

It does mean that each 10 of the 4x10 will have half the power of the 10 in the 2x10, but that isn't necessarily that relevant.

Edited May 22, 2017 by Woodinblack

[xgsjx]

Markbass marketing are talking crap. If you want flexibility, get another identical 2x10 & stack em vertically.

Marketing always dictates that you need a 4x10 on top of a 1x15. Reality dictates that this is marketing bull that should have been left in the 70s.

[citymariner]

Thanks for your quick replies.

I do have two of the 210s already however stacking vertically is not an option anymore due to everything having to be flight cased nowadays.

I was looking to get a bit more umpf from the rig and I'm even considering the 8x10 with it standing at only 116cm and being so light but its a grand - i'm willing to spend if its right but not if there is a more flexible option.

It's actually the band that are wanting it as I can run IEMs when available (which is becoming more and more so even in old skool venues that are shifting to digital desks). They want some punch on stage to get off on, bless 'em.

[citymariner]

[quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1495485214' post='3304173']
Markbass marketing are talking crap. If you want flexibility, get another identical 2x10 & stack em vertically.

Marketing always dictates that you need a 4x10 on top of a 1x15. Reality dictates that this is marketing bull that should have been left in the 70s.
[/quote]

Interestingly none of the blurb I copied is on any of the other 410s in the their product library, which I found strange. I'm certainly not falling for 410 + 115 combo - i'd rather keep all the drivers the same size - having said that I've heard some stonkingly good 10 with 15 rigs over the years.

[Lozz196]

I`ve had a few 210/410 rigs where both cabs were 8ohms. Yes each cab gets the same power, so in the 210 each speaker gets double what the ones in the 410 do - or at least that`s how I understand it. The benefit of the 210 on the top is that you can hear if it struggles - though to get that some serious volume/lows would have to be going, surely.

I`ve been very happy with the results such rigs give, so much that I currently have exactly that, a 210/410. Additionally when using same size/brand/range cones the sound is the same, so no need to re-eq each time you use a seperate cab.

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

[quote name='citymariner' timestamp='1495484753' post='3304164']
[i][size=3][color=#333333][font=Oswald, sans-serif]"The [/font][/color][b]Standard 104HR[/b][color=#333333][font=Oswald, sans-serif].... puts out impressive power at 800 watts[/font][/color][/size][/i]
Is MarkBass talking crap?
[/quote]Big time crap. For starters, speakers don't put out power.

[bazzbass]

[quote name='citymariner' timestamp='1495485694' post='3304182']


I do have two of the 210s already however stacking vertically is not an option anymore due to everything having to be flight cased nowadays.

[/quote]

Huh? are you saying the cabs need to stay in their flight cases on stage? That seems weird, but even so, why can't you stack one on the other?

they are equal sized boxes either way

or have I missed something here?

[citymariner]

[quote name='bazztard' timestamp='1495513787' post='3304295']
Huh? are you saying the cabs need to stay in their flight cases on stage? That seems weird, but even so, why can't you stack one on the other?

they are equal sized boxes either way

or have I missed something here?
[/quote]

It's my amp/ FX/ wireless etc. that is flight-cased so putting that on the top is not strong and stable enough for a bouncy bass player.
I've tried having the amp on the floor with the stack at the side but I do tweak so its a nightmare having it low down.

[Steve Browning]

Top hat case with the amp on top of the 'top' so it'll be pretty much the same height as if it were on top of one of the cabs?

[chris_b]

8 ohm 410 and 210's are fine to run together. It doesn't matter that the 410 is receiving half the power of the 210, just make sure you are working within the 210's power range and all will be good.

A 4 ohm 410 and 8 ohm 210 is a more even set up. All speakers will receive the same amount of power. You need an amp that goes to 2.67 ohms for this though.

[Phil Starr]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1495525439' post='3304378']
8 ohm 410 and 210's are fine to run together. It doesn't matter that the 410 is receiving half the power of the 210, just make sure you are working within the 210's power range and all will be good.

A 4 ohm 410 and 8 ohm 210 is a more even set up. All speakers will receive the same amount of power. You need an amp that goes to 2.67 ohms for this though.
[/quote]

+1

The maximum power handling of the 102+104 combination (at 8 ohms each) will be 800W AES, exactly the same as the 4x10 on its own. You will halve the power between the two cabs decreasing the maximum sound output from the 4x10 but you will of course get some extra sound output from the 2x10 and probably some extra output from the amplifier which will be driving into 4ohms.

The net effect is that you will have a 2x10 sitting on top at close to ear level, your sound level will be more or less the same and you'll be £505 lighter in the wallet.

If you want a 2x10 to use on it's own then you could buy anything, if you want it for the look then that's up to you, if you want more sound then get another 104.

Edited May 23, 2017 by Phil Starr

[citymariner]

Many thanks all, for your replies.

I think I'm tempted to go for the 104 just for flexibility- the 108 would look great (and sound it) but the flexibility of owning the 104 outweighs the looks stakes.

Thanks again.

[sonnyonbass]

Or buy a 610 ;-). Then you have 1 full fange cab.

[sonnyonbass]

Or buy a 610 ;-). Then you have 1 full fange cab.

[molan]

One thing to think about in the pairing you're suggesting is the porting. The HR 4x10 is rear ported whilst your HF210 is front.

This tends to mean that the 210 is going to be a bit more dominant in the stage sound than the 410.

I've tried this with Bergantino cabs and the newer front ported ones were significantly louder up close than the rear ported ones.

There is an HF410 that might match the 210 a bit better - depends on the tone and stage sound you're after of course. It could be that the 210 will be the clarity for onstage monitoring whilst the 410 will be the 'big thumper' to spread around the stage and out into the audience

[Chienmortbb]

[quote name='molan' timestamp='1495990046' post='3307973']
One thing to think about in the pairing you're suggesting is the porting. The HR 4x10 is rear ported whilst your HF210 is front.

This tends to mean that the 210 is going to be a bit more dominant in the stage sound than the 410.

I've tried this with Bergantino cabs and the newer front ported ones were significantly louder up close than the rear ported ones.

There is an HF410 that might match the 210 a bit better - depends on the tone and stage sound you're after of course. It could be that the 210 will be the clarity for onstage monitoring whilst the 410 will be the 'big thumper' to spread around the stage and out into the audience.
[/quote]If the Bergs use the same drivers, and are tuned to the same frequency and are the same volume, at the place were you were standing, you may be correct. If any one of those parameters or the power supplied to the speakers is different, then you may be mistaken.