Tuners and tone

[Cow]

(Wasn't sure if this would be better here or in repairs and technical, mods feel free to move if I chose poorly)

This is probably going to be a strange post so I apologise in advance.

Long story short(er), I fitted a set of hipshot ultralite tuners to my fender precision last year and was ecstatic with the result, made a world of difference to the balance and comfort of the instrument with no negatives I could perceive. I was very keen to get the same result with my Rickenbacker, which while not as neck heavy as the pbass had been I'm also constantly aware of the weight and drag on my shoulder regardless of the type of strap used, which is a constant distraction from just getting on with enjoying playing.

However, I soon discovered (surprisingly I thought) that apparently no one makes a lightweight tuner that's a direct fit and doesn't require the headstock holes to be enlarged, which I am really not keen on at all.

I did however have a conversation with a chap who informed me that he had had success fitting the hipshots by simply leaving the stock bushing in place rather than using the ultralite one, and therefore not having to enlarge the holes. Decided it was worth a go since I thought worst case scenario I end up with a screw hole that would be hidden by the original tuners if they went back on.

Sure enough, I was able to fit them, but, the results were a bit confusing. Weight wise, they made a difference, but not nearly as drastic as on the fender. Playing for a little while I'd say there's still some 'pull' towards the floor but it was definitely easier to ignore and my shoulder wasn't fatiguing nearly as much.

However, more importantly, as soon as I strung it up I immediately noticed a change in tone, which I did not with the fender. I shall freely admit to not having the best ears in the world, so I'm really struggling to understand or explain what the change was.

The best I can put it is that it was almost like putting a new set of strings on (I did not), it's sort of like a more metallic/trebley/clank that's audible both amped and acoustically. It's sort of like a hollow body sound maybe, a little like plucking on the Hofner I have. I wondered if it was perhaps to do with taking the strings on and off so for comparison I took the hipshots off and put the stock tuners back on, and it immediately went back to 'normal'.

It's pretty annoying because I can't for the life of me figure out if the change is good/bad/inconsequential or what it even is, and it's making me feel a tad silly. All I can think is that perhaps because the hipshots are designed to be used with a screw bushing rather than the press fit one used for the standard rick tuners, the single screw isn't enough on its own to create a snug enough fit and is causing everything to resonate differently and or wrongly? Especially since I didn't notice any change with the fender as I say and haven't read anything about anyone else experiencing a tone change switching over.

I guess what I'm asking in amongst my rambling, is has anyone had any sort of similar experience or thoughts on what could be going on?

Ultimately, the weight and balance difference is a positive, but I don't want to have messed anything up in the process and I don't think it's enough to have convinced me drill out the holes to try and fit them 'properly'. But I also don't want to say forget it and go back to stock if it's nothing negative or detrimental and is only because I'm hearing something 'different' that I'd get used to and forget about.

Anyway, hopefully some of you can forgive my vagueness and offer some helpful advice.

[dannybuoy]

If you have an old set of strings on, simply taking them off and putting then back on again can make them sound brighter. I guess it's the same phenomenon as this, just without the slapping!

http://youtu.be/s8OYeN9mAL4

[gjones]

[quote name='dannybuoy' timestamp='1495732939' post='3306243']
If you have an old set of strings on, simply taking them off and putting then back on again can make them sound brighter. I guess it's the same phenomenon as this, just without the slapping!

[media]http://youtu.be/s8OYeN9mAL4[/media]
[/quote]


I have been saying this for years but everybody thought I was just iNsANe!



Edit: Well of course, I am insane......but it still works.

Edited May 25, 2017 by gjones

[Cow]

[quote name='dannybuoy' timestamp='1495732939' post='3306243']
If you have an old set of strings on, simply taking them off and putting then back on again can make them sound brighter. I guess it's the same phenomenon as this, just without the slapping!

http://youtu.be/s8OYeN9mAL4
[/quote]

This was my initial thought, which is why I tried swapping back to the old tuners to see if the change remained, but that seemed to revert it back to how it was before :/

[Crawford13]

I guess it's possible that the break angle after the nut could have been affected if the tuning pegs were a slightly different height. Next time you change strings try to use more or fewer wraps around the post to create the same sort of angle you had with the original tuners.

[Yank]

I put the ultra-lites on my fretless MIM Jazz, and yes, big weight difference. Didn't notice any tonal change.

[SubsonicSimpleton]

If you change the mass of the headstock, you will alter the resonant(and cancelling) frequencies of the neck - resonances and cancellations act like EQ, exactly how much cut/boost you get and the frequencies at which this occurs will vary from instrument to instrument.

[Cow]

[quote name='SubsonicSimpleton' timestamp='1495794958' post='3306643']
If you change the mass of the headstock, you will alter the resonant(and cancelling) frequencies of the neck - resonances and cancellations act like EQ, exactly how much cut/boost you get and the frequencies at which this occurs will vary from instrument to instrument.
[/quote]

I guess it could be something along these lines, I'm just concerned that somehow not fitting them 'properly' is the culprit in some sort of negative way.

[Bolo]

If you like the tone, and you didn't force the pegs through the holes, you're fine.