Music Management - what's it all about eh?

[BigBeefChief]

The originals band I'm playing in is progressing nicely. Gigs are getting better/bigger and had some really strong feedback from reasonably independent sources.

The guitarist/co-songwriter has voiced a view that to take things to the next level, a manager could be a good idea.

Although usually I have an opinion on things I know nothing about, this seems to be the exception.

What does a manager actually do?

What value do they add?

Is finding (a good) one tough?


If we go down this route, do we actively search or wait for someones brother-in-law to offer to do it?

Who here has a manager? What are your experiences?


I've tried asking Dave up the pub, but he thought I was talking about Spurs and then through up on my shoes.

Edited October 29, 2008 by BigBeefChief

[cheddatom]

We had a manager for a while. It was a load of bullsh*t to be honest, so be careful because if you sign something then you're tied in for a time period.

[Bilbo]

That's a big question, BBC.

A good manager is a Godsend but there are very few of them about!!

The role is complex as it is often the case that bands that are starting out are looking for someone to get the gigs as well as to manage them. A good manager should help you define your product; image, sound, PR stuff, direction of travel etc (does he try to get your band played on Radio 1, 2 or 3...) and advise you on the best ways to move your brand forward. A good manager could be saying to you, 'love what you are doing but you need to sack your drummer'. 'Great CD but your image sucks', 'don't play that venue, play this one'. It is likely that s/he will be looking at your professionalism; timekeeping, staying sober, overall performance standards etc and trying to keep you delivering on your contracted obligations. The list goes on.

A good manager is as valuable, if not more so, that any member of the band but, be warned, a bad one can drive you into the dust. There are plenty of people out there who will offer to do it but not that many that knwo what 'it' is!!

[William James Easton]

Any decent band SHOULD be able to manage themself.
I've had 2 managers for bands (5 or 6 bands over 14years) and both have done nothing. Times without a manger where more productive, we got more and better gigs off our own back, in to a studio that we liked and not one of his mates garage studios.
Managers are leeches, just down the scale from record company suits.

FTW

[Dmanlamius]

Been through quite a few managers in my time in a touring band. I think that only one of them managed to get us big label interest. Same one got us onto the BBC, as well...

This was 2001. The internet has moved at such a stupidly quick pace, that there are a lot of things you can do for yourself now (mainly concerning networking) that would have been a little more difficult ten years ago. This guy was only good because he was such a massive networker. That was the difference.

If I were to be doing the whole gigging, living in a van, trying to get signed thing again, i'd do it without now. But thats because I've gained the knowledge through my experience.

If you haven't got any, then i'd say get a manager. If you have time to educate yourself, and have the ENERGY to do what a manager does as well as be in a band, then do that.

Always, always make sure you go through all contracts with a fine comb. If you have the finances, get a music solicitor (not cheap....vampires...but get the job done.)

Good luck.

Oh, and I think there maybe a lot of info about this over at the BBC webby...

[BigBeefChief]

Thank you for the advice people.

It seems that peoples experience has been negative.

Interesting.

[cheddatom]

[quote name='BigBeefChief' post='317370' date='Oct 29 2008, 10:38 AM']Thank you for the advice people.

It seems that peoples experience has been negative.

Interesting.[/quote]

But the people with positive experience are famous and not posting on BC.

[Bilbo]

One thing to remember is that bands have great expectations of managers and it is possible that the failure of a manager to deliver is actually the failure of the band to think strategically. For example, if a manager says don't do those gigs, many musicians will see that as a retrograde step as it means they are not working. The manager, however, may be thinking about overexposure, about something that is going to happen later on that creates a conflict. I know a lot of managers will say don't gig for less than £X whilst many bands 'just want to play'.

Being a manager in any situation is a difficult job to do and remain popular. Being a manager in the music business is even worse. If it all goes wrong, its his/her fault; not the band, not the agent, not the Producer, not the industry, not the venues, noit the music press - its all the manager's fault. Many of the 'scare' stories are true but some of them are masking the real issues.

Edited October 29, 2008 by bilbo230763

[LukeFRC]

the band i used to be in had a guy who managed us. well he did, never got anymoney from us though... (wait a mo neither did i!)
At the start it was good, he got us gigs at the next level up. But after a while it never went further than that, we were always the support band on first that brought the crowd in to his mates gig nights. Like he got us some good gigs, but at the same time we wanted more and I think we could have probably got more and better and better paid stuff if we had done it ourselves after the wee while.
He was also a wee bit devicive. This is a band I started and he started whispering in folks ears that they should loose me..... went down brilliantly....
I think we realised he wasnt really interested when he skipped our biggest gig yet to go hang out with his firends band at a large scale scottish music festival.

To be perfectly honest, if your character is like how you portray it tBBC, unless you find someone amazing you should be able to do it.

[LukeFRC]

though if you do do it yourself set up an imaginary 'management comparny' for all the bands dealings.
One of my friends was doing a wee headline tour of the south of the UK with a band his fiend had set up as part of his degree music course.
They had it all set up £50-100 a night type gigs. Except one venue was being a bit disorganised/slow in booking them. My friend rings up from "blahblah managment" all business like and efficient. And gets them sorted, when it comes to how much they are getting paid he puts in ' their usual price is £300' to which the venue says ok!
Business like efficiency good I think.

[SJA]

[quote name='LukeFRC' post='317380' date='Oct 29 2008, 10:48 AM']To be perfectly honest, if your character is like how you portray it tBBC, unless you find someone amazing you should be able to do it.[/quote]

+1
I reckon you'd be constantly butting heads with a manager.

[BigBeefChief]

[quote name='LukeFRC' post='317380' date='Oct 29 2008, 10:48 AM']To be perfectly honest, if your character is like how you portray it tBBC, unless you find someone amazing you should be able to do it.[/quote]

I couldn't do it for a number of reasons:

Lack of knowledge.

Lack of time (I'm at work 13 hours a day)

I'm not the driving force behind the band.


To a degree, we already have a manager, the guy who co-founded the band. He runs the myspace and books alll the gigs etc. It was his suggestion to look at getting proper management.

[BigBeefChief]

[quote name='SJA' post='317389' date='Oct 29 2008, 11:00 AM']+1
I reckon you'd be constantly butting heads with a manager.[/quote]


Probably, but he'd try and throw me out for being incompetent first!

[William James Easton]

[quote name='BigBeefChief' post='317392' date='Oct 29 2008, 11:01 AM']I couldn't do it for a number of reasons:

Lack of knowledge.

Lack of time (I'm at work 13 hours a day)

I'm not the driving force behind the band.


To a degree, we already have a manager, the guy who co-founded the band. He runs the myspace and books alll the gigs etc. It was his suggestion to look at getting proper management.[/quote]

D.I.Y mate. between your band you CAN do the business end.
be honest and open with other members, share out jobs to what suits each of you best and keep a diary of gigs/money/expenses etc. so everthings covered. if you can hold down a job and manage your bank account then you can manage your band easy.
Remeber the band belongs to the members not people wo just want a peice of the pie.

good luck with it.

Edited October 29, 2008 by Rusty Shackleford

[silverfoxnik]

I was in many bands over the years that had management with varying degrees of success in terms of:

1) the things the manager actually did that benefitted the band, and
2) how successful the relationship between the band and the management was.

Then after packing up as a musician in 1995, I had my own management company for 7 years, so I think I can safely say that I've seen it from both sides.

There's very good advice posted here already about managers who aren't vey good and how bands can, if they are focused and together as a unit, achieve much more through their own efforts. But having said that, Bilbo's point is worth thinking about because it highlights something that often gets lost in these discussions, which that artists and managers have inherently different viewpoints which need to be clearly articulated and explained at the beginning of the working relationship. If that communication isn't properly established at the beginning, then the relationship is doomed to failure because everybody involved is working to different objectives.

There are some very well documented stories of managers who have put the success of their bands/artists before their own well-being - such as the guy who managed Generation X years ago (Falcon Stuart I think) who remortgaged his own house to finance the band's activities.. And there's many other such stories too.

So my view is that it all comes down to belief - if you're the band, then you've got to have total belief in what you are doing. If you're the manager, you've got to have total belief in what the band/artist is doing. Without that, it doesn't matter how good the band is, what contracts you've got or who you know.. It won't happen..

I have to agree that it's highly likely that tBBC could do a great job as a manager...

Edited October 29, 2008 by silverfoxnik

[BigBeefChief]

[quote name='silverfoxnik' post='317409' date='Oct 29 2008, 11:23 AM']I have to agree that it's highly likely that tBBC could do a great job as a manager...[/quote]

Why?

What makes a good manager?

I'm confident I can't do it, but I'd like to know what to look out for in others.

[cheddatom]

[quote name='BigBeefChief' post='317424' date='Oct 29 2008, 11:36 AM']Why?

What makes a good manager?

I'm confident I can't do it, but I'd like to know what to look out for in others.[/quote]

Cheeky grin, tidy stuble, fair sized cock - all a necessity.

[waynepunkdude]

[quote name='cheddatom' post='317432' date='Oct 29 2008, 11:42 AM']Cheeky grin, tidy stuble, fair sized cock - all a necessity.[/quote]


Damn it I don't have tidy stuble.

[Dmanlamius]

[quote name='cheddatom' post='317432' date='Oct 29 2008, 11:42 AM']Cheeky grin, tidy stuble, fair sized cock - all a necessity.[/quote]

You forgot the "i'll make you a star" car bumper sticker...

[BigBeefChief]

[quote name='cheddatom' post='317432' date='Oct 29 2008, 11:42 AM']Cheeky grin, tidy stuble, fair sized cock - all a necessity.[/quote]


Unfortunately I rarely smile, am clean shaven and refuse to lose 6inches of my old chap for any band.

[cheddatom]

[quote name='BigBeefChief' post='317459' date='Oct 29 2008, 12:02 PM']Unfortunately I rarely smile, am clean shaven and refuse to lose 6inches of my old chap for any band.[/quote]

I was going by your avatar/personal experience (I suppose you were so p*ssed you don't remember our lovely evening).

[BigBeefChief]

[quote name='cheddatom' post='317496' date='Oct 29 2008, 12:47 PM']I was going by your avatar/personal experience (I suppose you were so p*ssed you don't remember our lovely evening).[/quote]



Ahh, you would have seen it with the brewers droop then.

[DirkThrust]

I would mostly agree with the views already expressed that if you divide the duties between band members, doing it yourselves is probably the best option.

My only experience with a manager was overwhelmingly negative. Back when I used to play in originals bands, I was recruited by this guy (Dave Ambrose was his name, so if you ever meet him, run like the wind) to play in this band he was getting back together. The best word to describe him would be flaky, but he talked the talk and he hooked me into his fantasy world.

The singer/songwriter who was the main creative force in the band was a very talented guy and came up with some good songs, but was rather young and naive and believed all this manager's flannel about how we'd get a record contract within x number of months. We used to hear snippets of information from other sources about this guy from time to time, one of which was that his precious "contact" in the music business actually worked in the post room at some tinpot label, but although the alarm bells were ringing we still let him get on with it.

Obviously the record contract never happened (this was before file sharing on the internet when a record contract was seen as the holy grail for any band) and one day the "manager" just disappeared along with all the band's money and demos. None of us ever heard from him again although somehow I don't think he's living the high life somewhere with the pittance we made.

Anyway, all of this waffle brings me to a point I think, which is that anyone can call themselves a manager and bullshit you about what he can do for you, and you stand a good chance of ending up with a fantasist who likes the idea of managing a band but doesn't actually have a realistic grasp of what is involved. Unless you actually know someone who you trust to do it I would avoid getting a stranger in. It'll be another mouth to feed and could cause more problems than he solves.

At the stage you're at I would think your main aim would be to build a fanbase and the only way to do that is by getting out and gigging. I've done my fair share of chasing promoters to give us gigs in the trendy venues whilst holdind down a full time job. There's no great secret about what to do. You've just got to be persistant and thick skinned, make contacts and avoid winding too many people up, like our twat used to do.

[clauster]

First you (as a band) need to decide what your goals are.

Then you need to verify that anybody who is interested in managing you has realised those same goals for other bands. If they have, they'll be a good manager for your band, if not then stop drop them pronto. You might go through a few different management companies as you progress.

I've been in two bands that had management (same management company). First time was great - we wanted paid original gigs, A&R men there and a record deal. They did this really well - loads of gigs, A&R people there regularly and we ended up in talks with Sony records, then the band went a**e up when the guitarist and drummer decided they didn't want to be pro musicians and left.

Move on to a new band where we decided we wanted to write new stuff and throw some covers in as well and just do gigs for a while, hopefully earning enough to at least make sure the formative period could be financially self supporting. Management where a nightmare, didn't like the drummer, got us gigs we weren't ready for and cancelled ones we'd booked as they weren't prestigious enough.

It's nothing you can't do yourselves (another band I was in got interest from Island records and we'd done everything ourselves), but having someone else do it for you means the band can get on with making music instead of booking and promoting gigs, hassling A&R men and finding lawyers who are good with music biz contracts.

[Jase]

Keep all your bands affairs to yourselves, keep control of everything, be your own customer and don't pay someone who only knows as much as you.....if you come across a good guy all well and good but the chances are he'll be a shmuck!