Music Management - what's it all about eh?

[silverfoxnik]

[quote name='BigBeefChief' post='317424' date='Oct 29 2008, 11:36 AM']Why?

What makes a good manager?

I'm confident I can't do it, but I'd like to know what to look out for in others.[/quote]
Because you believe in what you're doing and have enough insight/common sense to ask pertinent questions just like the ones in your original post.. Having said all of that, if one member of a band take on a quasi-management role without everybody agreeing to it, then it can upset the dynamic of the band, which is not a good thing.

Going back to your OP, if things are going well at the moment then I don't think your band needs a manager right now, if at all. The best time to take a manager on is when the planning/coordinating of all of the band's various activities cannot be carried out efficiently and successfully without it being done on a full-time basis.

These days, there's so much that bands can do without giving away any of their rights & income to managers, publishers & record companies etc, that I don't see any value in rushing into anything. The beauty of your situation at the moment is that the band has total control of it's future.

If anything, the most important person or company to get on board would be a great agent who can get you gigs in places that will really make a difference to the band's future.....

Good luck with it all!

[mike257]

I'm going to throw in a big +1 for the DIY route. With the wonders of t'interweb, and a bit of graft, you can achieve enormous amounts on your own.

My last decent crack at a band managed ourselves, basically between the guitarist and me, and despite being an originals band on the toilet circuit, with all that it entails, we never operated at a loss. We didn't rough it either - we stayed in Travelodges for near every away gig

If you put the work in with the promotion - and it's time consuming more than anything else - you can generate enough support and interest to be asking for enough money to gig your way round the country. We managed to build a sizeable fanbase in our home town, and would hire out the Barfly/Carling Academy, run our own shows and pocket a wedge (instead of letting a promoter take it) and that more than made up for any financial defecit from gigging elsewhere. Reached the point that we were drawing respectable crowds (and fees) in a number of cities, and talked our way into a Carling Academy headline tour. If you stock up on merch, you only need to sell a few t-shirts at each show to get your petrol/breakfast/hooker money, and Bob's your father's brother.

We spoke to a couple of managers at the time, but none of them were offering anything enticing. I'm very much of the opinion that you shouldn't pay somebody to do something you can do yourself. Only work with managers/labels/whoever if they are able to do things that you [b]cannot possibly do[/b] under your own steam.

Saying that, we split up. So that might all be uselss really

Edited October 29, 2008 by mike257

[dangerboy]

I haven't met anyone yet with a positive manager experience who met their manager before getting signed. Once people get signed they needed legal and logistical help, so I think it makes sense. But if you're on your way up, you're more likely to meet someone who wants to hang out with musicians and screw girls much younger than them, than someone who can do anything good for you.

Oh, and [url="http://www.negativland.com/albini.html"]http://www.negativland.com/albini.html[/url]

[JakeBrownBass]

I couldn't be happier with my manager

We've got a kinda weird management deal though, its in two parts with two guys.
We've got one guy, local to us, almost like a 5th member of the band. We've known him for years and he's a musician himself.
Other guy is Rod Jones from idlewild, but he lives all the way up in edinburgh! Everything goes through all of us and we all have to agree on things ot they don't happen.
Since management, we've got major label interest, a supports tour, and another one coming, played live on the radio, had music on the radio, got a radio plugger, lawyer.

Management couldn't have gone better for us!

-Jake

[silverfoxnik]

[quote name='jake_tenfloors' post='319088' date='Oct 31 2008, 02:41 PM']I couldn't be happier with my manager

We've got a kinda weird management deal though, its in two parts with two guys.
We've got one guy, local to us, almost like a 5th member of the band. We've known him for years and he's a musician himself.
Other guy is Rod Jones from idlewild, but he lives all the way up in edinburgh! Everything goes through all of us and we all have to agree on things ot they don't happen.
Since management, we've got major label interest, a supports tour, and another one coming, played live on the radio, had music on the radio, got a radio plugger, lawyer.

Management couldn't have gone better for us!

-Jake[/quote]
Good to hear a positive spin on things Jake.. Are idlewild still a going concern themselves?

[BigBeefChief]

[quote name='jake_tenfloors' post='319088' date='Oct 31 2008, 02:41 PM']I couldn't be happier with my manager

We've got a kinda weird management deal though, its in two parts with two guys.
We've got one guy, local to us, almost like a 5th member of the band. We've known him for years and he's a musician himself.
Other guy is Rod Jones from idlewild, but he lives all the way up in edinburgh! Everything goes through all of us and we all have to agree on things ot they don't happen.
Since management, we've got major label interest, a supports tour, and another one coming, played live on the radio, had music on the radio, got a radio plugger, lawyer.

Management couldn't have gone better for us!

-Jake[/quote]


Good to hear a success story.

How did you find him or did he find you?

[Sibob]

Mine is a success story so far as well!

In my opinion, a manager doesn't organise the day to day running of a band, they are your connection to the industry! You employ them for their contacts and their savvy! Touting you about to the people who matter, getting people talking about you etc!
Their job is not to get gigs or tours (although this does happen sometimes as a bi-product), their job is not to get you rehearsing, it is not to run your myspace!.
Further down the line they will organise and run your diary, but that's about it, they will then start to organise an infrastructure of people around you. Agents for gigs, Tour Managers for tours, Press & PR people, Endorsements etc etc

They will of course make sure you are meeting the deadlines you are supposed to meet, and kick you up the arse once in a while, but it is down to the band to sort their daily routines IMO! (I'm talking at toilet-circuit level).

It seems to me that any people that have had negative experiences have usually done so because:

A ) it was their brothers cousins dog who was doing it, not someone with decent industry contacts
B ) they believed that EVERYTHING was to be done by the manager
C ) didn't have the contract checked out well enough and were stitched up
D ) they simply didn't 'make it' and are bitter

All of these things are very easy to overcome of you stay on top of the day-to-day running of your own band!
But realise that not many people within the industry will take notice of a 'self-managed' band contacting them, unless they have a massive following and simply can't ignore them.

Each 'scene' within the music industry is very tight knit, everyone knows each other, and so having a decent manager within those circles is priceless!

Si

Edited October 31, 2008 by Sibob

[silverfoxnik]

[quote name='Sibob' post='319269' date='Oct 31 2008, 06:32 PM']Mine is a success story so far as well!

In my opinion, a manager doesn't organise the day to day running of a band, they are your connection to the industry! You employ them for their contacts and their savvy! Touting you about to the people who matter, getting people talking about you etc!
Their job is not to get gigs or tours (although this does happen sometimes as a bi-product), their job is not to get you rehearsing, it is not to run your myspace!.
Further down the line they will organise and run your diary, but that's about it, they will then start to organise an infrastructure of people around you. Agents for gigs, Tour Managers for tours, Press & PR people, Endorsements etc etc

They will of course make sure you are meeting the deadlines you are supposed to meet, and kick you up the arse once in a while, but it is down to the band to sort their daily routines IMO! (I'm talking at toilet-circuit level).

It seems to me that any people that have had negative experiences have usually done so because:

A ) it was their brothers cousins dog who was doing it, not someone with decent industry contacts
B ) they believed that EVERYTHING was to be done by the manager
C ) didn't have the contract checked out well enough and were stitched up
D ) they simply didn't 'make it' and are bitter

All of these things are very easy to overcome of you stay on top of the day-to-day running of your own band!
But realise that not many people within the industry will take notice of a 'self-managed' band contacting them, unless they have a massive following and simply can't ignore them.

Each 'scene' within the music industry is very tight knit, everyone knows each other, and so having a decent manager within those circles is priceless!

Si[/quote]

That's a very astute take on it Si and all bar a few exceptions where bands are so good or so popular (like the Dave Matthews Band in the States), I'd say pretty spot-on as an assessment.. The best thing IMO is to be really sorted as a band and then employ a manager at the right time for you, who is also very focused..

[Lenny B]

A good manager can be incredibly helpful but they're a very rare breed.

Couple of tips;

1. When discussing a possible appointment, get a (fairly) detailed plan of what they intend to do ('get gigs and big up myspaces' doesn't count)

2. What's their experience / reputation / contacts / successes?

3. Consider a 3-6 month trial period

4. Get a music business lawyer (feel free to PM me)

Someone who is more efficient and organised than you can indeed be very helpful, but that's different from planning a career path and strategy. Consider approaching management companies who you respect, or probably the managers of bands you think have done well / had a good plan - there may be someone more junior in the office who would be willing to take you on but 'under the wing' of the more experienced managers

My tuppence'orth

[JakeBrownBass]

[quote]Good to hear a positive spin on things Jake.. Are idlewild still a going concern themselves?[/quote]

Idlewild are still going strong, they're having a break atm as roddy is having a baby!

[quote]Good to hear a success story.

How did you find him or did he find you?[/quote]

A bit of both really, His Step-mum worked at our school giving singing lessons, then she started giving me and our main singer lessons. Were friends with his sister aswel so he knew about us already!

Jake

[Dmanlamius]

[quote name='Sibob' post='319269' date='Oct 31 2008, 06:32 PM']A ) it was their brothers cousins dog who was doing it, not someone with decent industry contacts
B ) they believed that EVERYTHING was to be done by the manager
C ) didn't have the contract checked out well enough and were stitched up
D ) they simply didn't 'make it' and are bitter[/quote]

Sorry. Wrong on all four counts, concerning the negative experience with the managers that I mentioned...


But I defiantly see what you are saying.

Luckily for us, the "good" one, got us seen by Steve Lemacq, and some lovely mentions and airplay on radio one. The ball started rolling from that moment onwards.