Doing gigs without rehearsal

[chris_b]

Sloppy Jazz band?

How can you tell?

Decide after you get an impartial second opinion from someone who knows about these things.

[project_c]

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1496242323' post='3309857']
Are you playing real book standards?

I don't see why you'd rehearse those tbh. It's improvised, so the idea is that they're not played the same each time anyway.

I play a whole lot of that stuff, if there's anything unfamiliar on the set list then I run through it a few times at home. This is what I suggest your guys do too.
[/quote]


Yeah, they are just standards for the most part, and I know what you're saying, it should be straightforward, but with this group it isn't. For me, learning a standard means learning the melody, understanding the song structure and working out solo ideas based on the melody and structure, and then applying it in a group setting so it fits in with the general feel of the whole thing. For others in the band it just means reading whatever is written in the real book, and then using whatever chops you can think of to knock out a solo, and then drinking booze until the end of the song. Without rehearsal, things like comping and communication are completely left out of the equation, as are things like trading fours and all the other small things that can make the difference between a lukewarm recital and a proper performance.

Not everyone will have practiced the material properly in their own time, and even if they have, they will have studied different versions of the same song - sometimes in different keys - so we need to practice as a group to make sure we're all on the same page.

[quote name='jrixn1' timestamp='1496243690' post='3309878']
I don't think you need more group rehearsals - I think you need fewer!

What I mean is: if people are continually getting lost in standards, or can't keep consistent time, they must do some individual practice. It is a waste of time to have a group rehearsal otherwise - particularly for you, if you are the strongest member of the group.

They could use tools like iReal Pro (or Band-in-a-Box, Aebersold tapes, etc).

Do you guys go to jam sessions (individually)? Playing with unknowns/randoms is a really great way to learn how to truly listen to, react to, and interact with other musicians.

What is your set of 15 songs, out of interest?
[/quote]

I'm definitely not the strongest member of the group, but I can't rely on the rest of the rhythm section for reliable comping so I have the responsibility of keeping it together, which means I'm probably more aware of the problems than the others. So for example, the pianist has terrible timing and his comping is not great, and he gets lost a lot. I personally think this is something that is best learnt through practice with other musicians, because getting lost is never a problem with backing tracks. (It's not impossible to learn it individually - the way I do it is I just turn off everything except the click in iRealPro, and run through the melody, then a few choruses of walking, then a solo, then fours - but I don't think anyone else bothers to do this). A backing track can often fool you into thinking you know a song a lot better than you actually do.

I think as you say fundamentally it comes down to people not practicing in their own time, but the only way I can spot that is if we rehearse and it becomes apparent, otherwise it just happens during the gig. The band has some very experienced players as well as some who are less experienced, but it's not always the less experienced ones that are messing up, in fact they tend to be more nervous about playing so they will have spent more time preparing.

Set list is stuff like Blue in Green, All Blues, Song For My Father, Recordame, So What, Beatrice, Stolen Moments, Solar, Whisper Not, All the Things, Yardbird Suite, etc, lots of the 'usual' standards with a couple of less common ones thrown in.

[quote name='peteb' timestamp='1496244987' post='3309896']
So you're playing the same set with a limited repertoire in a genre that is based on an improvisational format where presumably you will never play a song the same twice and you want to rehearse weekly to play one gig a month??

I'm afraid that I'm with your bandmates on the one...
[/quote]

Yeah, but like I said, that only works if everyone knows the basis of the songs to improvise over, or is at a skill level where they can at least blag it. Otherwise it's just 'free jazz'. (in the same way as a 5 year old with a crayon is an 'abstract expressionist').

[blue]

Sounds like the band doesn't meet your requirements. Leave after you find something better.

Blue

[gjones]

I've been in a band where repeated rehearsals never got the band anywhere, due to lack of musical ability (except for me of course!).

And I've been in a band who never rehearsed but managed to put on a decent show, because the individual members were talented and experienced.

The second band irritated me the most, because we had the ability to be so much better if we just put a bit of work into the songs but the band leader was a lazy sod.

[ivansc]

I routinely do gigs with zero rehearsal. Variable lineups from a pool of experienced musicians who listen and who know their instruments well enough that if they think it, they play it.
Not easy to find and I too have suffered at the hands of players who "dont need to rehears, maan".

Choose yer battles is my motto.

I'm doing my first gig as featured singer/writer/guitarist shortly and none of the other players have even heard half the songs. I will be sending them files via dropbox on the couple that have a weird groove and/or an unusual chord sequence... Assuming it works OK we already have a few more gigs booked...

Never played with my fingers crossed before.

[Norris]

[quote name='Muzz' timestamp='1496245904' post='3309909']
We don't rehearse much in the function band (at all over the last few years), but that's just what works for us - we all know each other and every song inside out before we play it for the first time. Since we dropped down to a trio, though, there's been some reworking of the set and new songs, so we've actually had a couple of rehearsals recently.
[/quote]

Blimey - I could have written that same statement, except for the word function and that we've always been a trio

[chris_b]

[quote name='ivansc' timestamp='1496263919' post='3310105']I routinely do gigs with zero rehearsal. [/quote]

As do I. If the guys in the band are good enough, your preparation is up to scratch and everyone is on the same page then it can work. I would imagine there are guys who aren't up to this way of working. Fortunately I don't meet up with them very often.

[bazzbass]

it's called PRIDE


you have it, they don't

find new bandmates with aforementioned pride.

[cheddatom]

[quote name='project_c' timestamp='1496250628' post='3309965']
...I can't rely on the rest of the rhythm section for reliable comping...[/quote]

What does "comping" mean in this context?

[Yank]

It's not a band. It's a jam. Treat it as such.

[The Jaywalker]

.

Edited November 28, 2017 by The Jaywalker

[cheddatom]

interesting, thanks! I've heard "comping" a lot in studios, meaning to compile a performance out of several slices of audio, or to compile a "doubled vocal" from two or more takes etc.

[Woodinblack]

In my last group we were going a year and only had about 25 songs. The guitarist was keen on rehearsals, and the drummer wasn't (he lived much further away), so we stopped doing them. After we did stop, we did get sloppier, though I am not sure if it was the lack of rehearsals themselves (as we were playing quite often), or just a loss of interest in the set.

[project_c]

[quote name='cheddatom' timestamp='1496312821' post='3310391']
interesting, thanks! I've heard "comping" a lot in studios, meaning to compile a performance out of several slices of audio, or to compile a "doubled vocal" from two or more takes etc.
[/quote]

In the case of this band I really just mean 'providing suitable accompaniment while others take a solo', i.e. just playing the chords with a bit of subtlety and in time, and in the right place. Some pianists occasionally forget that they are part of the rhythm section and need to contribute to the song beyond their own solo. Bass solos sound particularly sparse without melodic accompaniment, which is great if that's what you're going for, but not great if it just happens because the pianist isn't paying attention.

[borntohang]

[quote name='cheddatom' timestamp='1496312821' post='3310391']
interesting, thanks! I've heard "comping" a lot in studios, meaning to compile a performance out of several slices of audio, or to compile a "doubled vocal" from two or more takes etc.
[/quote]

That's the context you'll mostly hear it used in these days, but comping is long-established jazz terminology.

I'd actually never connected the dots to 'complementing' before Jaywalker explained it and had just assumed it was a generic word that had been used to describe tasteful accompaniment in a jazz combo. Either that or it was onomatopoeia derived from hack guitarists plugging away at four to a bar jazz chords...

comp comp comp comp comp comp comp comp

[DaveFry]

I have always assumed "comping" was a abbreviation for accompanying as in :-

During the flood grandma floated away on the grand piano and grandpa accompanied her on the double bass .

Carry on OT.

[Dad3353]

[quote name='DaveFry' timestamp='1496325037' post='3310533']
I have always assumed "comping" was a abbreviation for accompanying as in :-

During the flood grandma floated away on the grand piano and grandpa accompanied her on the double bass .

Carry on OT.
[/quote]

That's my interpretation, too, but I believe there's local variation, and sometimes, context breeds differing uses of the same term.

[bassjim]

[quote name='Monkey Steve' timestamp='1496239344' post='3309818']
I have been in bands with certain members who didn't like rehearsing. As a rule of thumb they generally:

1. massively over-estimated their own abilities (Dunning-Kruger and all that) - they don't need to rehearse because they're great;

To those arguing that a gigging band shouldn't need to rehearse the same songs over and over again, I'd refer you back to the OP where he's explaining that the problem is that they can't play the set properly to begin with. How can practicing the songs possibly make the situation worse?
[/quote]+ 1.

If somethings consistently not sounding right the solution/problem is either the player/s or difference of opinion. The place to sort it out is has got to be the rehearsal room.

I do a regular dep gig where the drummer is so on the case,plus the band are so on it, that rehearsals are not really nessacary but this is an exception and even then I'd still would have preferred at least a run through.

I personally prefer to be rehearsed. I enjoy playing and I enjoy rehearsing. If the other band members were below an acceptable, (to me) certain standard, bunch of dicks or gigs were embarrassing due to lack of what ever it was, I probably wouldn't be there in the first place, unless getting paid to do so.

[chris_b]

[quote name='bassjim' timestamp='1496405197' post='3311132']
. . . . I probably wouldn't be there in the first place, unless getting paid to do so.
[/quote]

We should always be getting paid to gig.

[EBS_freak]

zero rehearsal? man, I've played wedding gigs where the first time the band has met has been in the carpark.

"how long have you guys been playing together?"

"oh, years... we go way back"

[bassjim]

[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1496406006' post='3311146']
zero rehearsal? man, I've played wedding gigs where the first time the band has met has been in the carpark.

"how long have you guys been playing together?"

"oh, years... we go way back"
[/quote] this too!

[TimR]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1496250149' post='3309958']
Sloppy Jazz band?

How can you tell?

Decide after you get an impartial second opinion from someone who knows about these things.
[/quote]

Exactly this.

I played a gig two weeks ago with the guitarist filling in as the singer and a drummer we had never played with before. It was very sloppy.

It was as a favour for our friend as a last minute thing for his birthday, only 30minutes and we weren't going to be paid.

Apparently of the three bands that played we were the best and as the other semi-pro and pro band were being paid, he also paid us (more than we'd usually get!)