Mesa D800+ vs D800 - adjustable HPF rawks. (NAD)

[mcnach]

For a number of reasons, mainly the fact that I think they sound really good, I've ended up with two 4ohm BF Two10 cabs. They're not quite as nice sounding as the TKS S112 that I *love*, but they're not too far off, and they can handle a lot more power, get a lot louder, and have a stronger bottom end (yet still tight)...

The MarkBass LM3 has been my choice of amplifier for a while now. I've tried a bunch of other heads, light and not so light, and while the LM3 is not the absolute best, I really like it and it's extremely easy to get good sounds out of it. You have to try hard to get a bad sound. For that reason, it's been my favourite: a simple, no-nonsense, reliable and relatively cheap amplifier.

When I came to the two Two10 cabs I thought I'd try them in series (8ohm) and see first, although my plan was to get a second LM3 and use both together with the two cabs. They're small enough that carrying an extra head is not exactly a hardship, and I like the backup factor of that setup.

I used the Two10 in series and it worked pretty well... but I felt that I was going to need a bit more 'oomph' at times, so I set out to get that second LM3. I used to have a Streamliner 900 that I sold and kept the 'gear tokens' towards the new head, so it was a matter of finding it.

Then I got distracted. What about a 2ohm capable amplifier?

There are a few. One that I tried a while ago was the Mesa D800 (thanks deksawer! ) I borrowed that amp and checked it against my Streamliner 900 and the LM3 through 1, 2 and 4 TKS S112 (that was fun). The main conclusions from that were:

- the LM3 should not feel shy just because it's rated at 500W as opposed to 800-900W, it was still very punchy, very loud and great sounding.

- The Streamliner just wasn't my thing and should go.

- The Mesa D800 was pretty special. It sounded great, and had a certain extra quality about it... it sounded... 'bigger'. Hard to describe. It was a little dark sounding, and the treble was set a little too high for it to bring the 'air' I'd like... but that was a minor niggle. I liked it a lot and could see one of those in my future, I just wasn't ready to spend the cash yet and I didn't really need it when the LM3 was perfectly adequate even if a little less nice.

So, now I was naturally after a D800. Used, to save a little bit of cash. The transferable warranty of these amps make buying them used a pretty worry-free matter.

Of course I wasn't seeing any... I almost got a Fender Pro800 to try... but then I started thinking about the D800+.

What is different between the D800 and the D800+?
Well, the D800+ is a bit bigger... but still compact and light. That's not an important difference. There are a number of added functions on the D800+.

First, the low mids and high mids have an extra control where you can select the frequency centre. I generally prefer not to have that, as I am going to be tweaking to death over the first few months... I'd rather have an amp with simpler controls that are set the way I like them. In that respect, the LM3 is pretty cool. But, fine, it's a matter of self control and adds usefulness, no doubt. I wish the knobs for the boost/cut and the frequency selector were different, as I find it too easy to turn the wrong one by mistake... I might just change the knob, actually. Anyway... semiparametric 2-band mids, covering from to 150Hz to 5000Hz. That's quite a range. In fact, the treble control is a little high for my liking, but the high mids can easily be turned into a "lower treble" of sorts when needed.

However, I don't think I need that... the D800+ adds a "bright" switch, which adds just the right amount of presence I was missing from the D800. Brilliant. This switch just made a great head that was a "little dark" into a great head "full stop".

Both D800 and D800+ have the "voicing" control, which is a bit like the VPF control on MarkBass heads... but much more useable in my opinion (so it doesn't work the same way, clearly). All the way off to "flat" position the D800 sounds... not too different from an LM3, in fact... but then once you start turning it clockwise and/or using the EQ it quickly moves away into a different territory. I find that I like this control set at around 9 o'clock... it smoothens and warms up things a bit. Between this and setting the input gain just right (which can add a tiny bit of very nice 'grit' unlike the LM3 which just sounds ugh if you turn it too high), you can get a really nice, fat, defined, delicious sound.

That's all great. However, what I'm in love with is the variable HPF control. It's the feature that made me consider this amp in the first place... and it's turned out to work much much much more nicely than I expected. I have used fixed HPF before, but this has been a revelation. It allows you to adjust the bottom end *just so*. You can still get a fat bottom end, but keep it tight and defined without crazy low end... I haven't yet tested it at a gig, as I've just got it... but I can see this is going to be incredibly useful and I think I'm going to be looking for this feature in pedal form and let my trusty Thumpinator go.

So... what an amplifier!
I love it. I remembered the D800 being very nice... but the extra features in the D800+ just make it superb. The combination of the D800+ with the Two10 cab(s) is fantastic. Very good match.

Ok, and to finish, the obligatory picture... (the controls don't reflect my favourite settings or anything as it was taken before I sat down properly to investigate it)...

[Beer of the Bass]

Looks good. Have you had a chance to check it out with the s112s yet? I wonder if the HPF might do useful things for them. I had an Acoustic Image head with a variable HPF, and it was handy for getting a little extra loudness out of a small cab before it starts to complain. I tend to like what a bright switch does for the voicing of an amp too, so the features on this one look quite attractive.

[mcnach]

[quote name='Beer of the Bass' timestamp='1497376863' post='3317695']
Looks good. Have you had a chance to check it out with the s112s yet? I wonder if the HPF might do useful things for them. I had an Acoustic Image head with a variable HPF, and it was handy for getting a little extra loudness out of a small cab before it starts to complain. I tend to like what a bright switch does for the voicing of an amp too, so the features on this one look quite attractive.
[/quote]

No, I haven't yet, but I suspect you're right. I'm always wary of pushing the lows too far with the S112s and I always used a Thumpinator with them.

[bassbora]

I use the D800 and last weekend the sound guy made a special effort coming over and telling me my sound was superb. That amp into Berg. It's perfect. Forgot fingers and Warwick stage 2. That sounds slams you in the gut like there's no tomorrow.

Such a simple amp with great sound

Edited June 14, 2017 by bassbora

[Joebethell]

Love my D800+ also I tried a number of amps before purchasing the Mesa even A/B'ing it with the darkglass before my final choice. Sound so right to me through a 1x12 hoping to get another cab in the future to get the 4ohm and extra power (not that I need it)

[Dan Dare]

I have a Carvin B1000, which is also 2 ohms capable. Many of their heads are. Genzler Magellan will go down to 2.7 ohms (i.e. 3 x 8 ohm cabs). Worth knowing that they way amp designers make something 2 ohm capable is to reduce the amount of power through the output stage, so you won't get much more, if any power than you get running into 4 ohms. If you like the D800 sound (which I do, too. A pal uses one and it's excellent), the sound is down to the preamp - it uses the usual Bang & Olufsen ICEpower module found in many of he better Class D heads. So all you need is an add on power amplifier which you can drive from the D800 preamp or effects out. I picked up a used Bugera class D head, which I use as a power amp driven by my Carvin and it sounds the same. Hope this is of some use.

[mcnach]

Well, the first gig is out of the way... and this thing is just lovely.

Outdoor gig with PA support, so just a single Two10 with the D800+. Sound onstage was just my amp/cab and it sounded fantastic. There was a substantial 'quality' to the sound that I cannot really describe. It's definitely one of the nicest amps I've tried... and the best of the small & light ones. The combination with the BF Two10 caps is incredible. I haven't been this happy with the sound of my bass in... forever!

[hamfist]

A great result for you mcnach ! If I hadn't found my nirvana in TRace Elliot I would certainly try and give one of these a go.

[Sparky Mark]

I too drive a pair of Bergantino 12's or 210's with 500 watt Markbass heads and have been GASing for something with more power. The two heads that I am most attracted to are the 1000W Markbass Ninja for £663 and the Mesa 800+ which sells in the USA for $799 (£625ish) and here for £1050. Even allowing for import duty 5% (not sure but shouldn't be more than that?) plus 20% VAT and £50 carriage the UK price seems too high. I realise this issue comes up regularly and we are used to paying the dollar amount in pounds but this is another £200.

[chris_b]

In the US you know you are going to sell hundreds of units so you can price accordingly. Unfortunately, over here, you're going to sell a couple of dozen units.

Economies of scale don't work as well at those levels.

[Sparky Mark]

Agreed, but I assume Mesa are achieving some production economies of scale. If market size was the only factor then every USA product would show the same disparity, but I don't think they do. For instance the first product I have looked at is the Ampeg PF 800 Portaflex head is £505 here and $600 in the USA.

Edited June 19, 2017 by Sparky Mark

[mcnach]

[quote name='Sparky Mark' timestamp='1497870436' post='3320929']
I too drive a pair of Bergantino 12's or 210's with 500 watt Markbass heads and have been GASing for something with more power. The two heads that I am most attracted to are the 1000W Markbass Ninja for £663 and the Mesa 800+ which sells in the USA for $799 (£625ish) and here for £1050. Even allowing for import duty 5% (not sure but shouldn't be more than that?) plus 20% VAT and £50 carriage the UK price seems too high. I realise this issue comes up regularly and we are used to paying the dollar amount in pounds but this is another £200.
[/quote]

I haven't tried the Ninja... but after trying the Mesa I would not bother, quite frankly.

It's not so much about the power, but the sound. If you get a chance to try a D800+, do it. Especially if you can borrow it for a test 'in the wild'.
I was going to use two LM3, for essentially a 1000W rig with two 4ohm cabs. I like the LM3 a lot. They're very nicely priced too, especially used. But my LM3 is purely home and backup use now. The D800+ can sound much like the LM3 if you want it to, but it can add a sprinkle of oomph over the top and I just love that.

[mcnach]

One thing about the D800+ is... you'd expect that if they give you a carry case for it, they would give you a decent one especially for the price. The case is very thin and the handles don't inspire much trust, even if the amp it light. Not much protection and the build quality is not amazing. The Gator bag I was using with the LM3 is a LOT better, and even that one is not exactly offering top protection. I almost wish they hadn't bothered: do it well or don't do it.

So I'm looking for better bags, without going full 'flight case'. I ordered a 'technicians case' which should be with me today, and let's see how that one goes. It has a big central compartment and side flaps with multiple pockets, so it can carry cables and accessories and the middle bit looks decently padded. It's larger than the amp so I might add a small towel, which can come pretty handy too... let's see. I've just found that Zoom make a case for their R16 and R24 multitrack recorders that looks decent and might be good...

[Sparky Mark]

Perhaps we should start a group on here of BCers who will commit to buying one, and once we have achieved whatever the price break point is, place all our orders with the UK retailer who can then also benefit? If a UK retailer could let us know how many and how much?

Edited June 19, 2017 by Sparky Mark

[largo]

Great review & got me thinking about my rig (again) so cheers for that. Currently got Mesa D800 with 2 x Barefaced One10 and it does about 80% fantastically well. However, I might be tempted to go 2 x Two10 stacked just to get that bit of height when I'm standing almost on top of my amp. I know my amp can cope but really wonder why Alex doesn't do an 8 ohm Two10 option.

[chris_b]

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1497875409' post='3320998']
One thing about the D800+ is... you'd expect that if they give you a carry case for it, they would give you a decent one especially for the price. The case is very thin and the handles don't inspire much trust, even if the amp it light. [/quote]

I use one of these for all my D Class amps. . . .

http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/flight-case-with-foam-n70ap

.. . . make the hole the size of the amp and there's all the protection you need.

[Sparky Mark]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1497876678' post='3321015']


I use one of these for all my D Class amps. . . .

http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/flight-case-with-foam-n70ap

.. . . make the hole the size of the amp and there's all the protection you need.
[/quote]

+1

[largo]

the beauty of the smaller D800 is that it fits beautifully in a laptop backpack

[mcnach]

[quote name='largo' timestamp='1497881822' post='3321076']
the beauty of the smaller D800 is that it fits beautifully in a laptop backpack
[/quote]

I think I may have found a pretty cool case for the D800+... watch this space...

[Musicman20]

[quote name='Sparky Mark' timestamp='1497875623' post='3321001']
Perhaps we should start a group on here of BCers who will commit to buying one, and once we have achieved whatever the price break point is, place all our orders with the UK retailer who can then also benefit? If a UK retailer could let us know how many and how much?
[/quote]

Great idea. I'd love the D800+....

[deksawyer]

[quote name='Sparky Mark' timestamp='1497875623' post='3321001']
Perhaps we should start a group on here of BCers who will commit to buying one, and once we have achieved whatever the price break point is, place all our orders with the UK retailer who can then also benefit? If a UK retailer could let us know how many and how much?
[/quote]

You'd be shocked to see the margin that a Mesa dealer gets, it's [i][b]very[/b][/i] poor, so I'd be surprised if a dealer wanted to do this...

D.

[mcnach]

Et voila... here's the case I found.



It's a decent fit in two dimensions... but leaves enough room for another amp almost. I can fit the D800+ with the original case inside this! Which I guess is one way to add protection




The extra space can come handy for things like a laptop, folders with music etc:




The top is well padded and has a rigid plastic sheet for added protection. It is a pocket too, so you could insert something else there. The small sides have small pockets, and the large sides open completely and have several compartments. So there is plenty of space for cables etc.

[mcnach]

The one thing this bag was not so good at is... the bottom: there is no padding at all!!! Very strange.
Fortunately, I had some very tough and dense foam from work, from the packaging of some large piece of equipment, and it came very handy to make a nice supportive bottom layer:






So with that at the bottom, the back of the amp is now protected too.
I use some of the remainder foam to cut a frame to fill the gap when I only carry the amp inside. It makes a good space for accessories, so I'll probably take the power and speaker cables there, and use the side pockets for other things.






It could have been better... but I'm not complaining. It'll do the job nicely and I trust this with my amp, something I could not say about the original bag, which I will use as a dust cover at home.

[Sparky Mark]

[quote name='deksawyer' timestamp='1497970347' post='3321713']


You'd be shocked to see the margin that a Mesa dealer gets, it's [i][b]very[/b][/i] poor, so I'd be surprised if a dealer wanted to do this...

D.
[/quote]

But there is something weird going on when a £625 amp in the USA costs £425 more in the UK. I wonder how many units a USA retailer has to commit to to be able to sell at that price?
Other USA products don't seem to carry this scale of surcharge in the UK.
This would seem to be an occasion when if you travel to the USA it would be worth buying one and paying the VAT and any duty and saving yourself £200+.

Edited June 20, 2017 by Sparky Mark

[chris_b]

I believe Mesa controls the pricing pretty tightly, at least they did when I bought my Mesa 400+ about 20 years ago.