stingrayPete1977 Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 (edited) Ok it might not sound like your about to be world beating CD you've just recorded but some of the best live bass mixes I've heard for multi band gigs have been from a clean di box before the amp input, why people still think a £350 bass head will sound better than a £7000 digital mixing desk I'm not sure? Edited June 19, 2017 by stingrayPete1977 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 I kinda see it from all angles. DI is simple, quick to change over... and any sound guy should be able to get a great bass sound from it because it hasn't be swamped with stupid amounts of low end, or nasally treble. Amping is great but what you hear on stage may not sound good in the mix. At all. If you are going through a PA, then your amp is your monitor. I can pretty much guarantee that the sound you want for your monitor to hear yourself, is not what you want to hear out front. Modelling - if you must have your sound, get a modeller... and then you can send all your modulation, overdrive etc... to the front of house. If you think that modellers don't cut it compared to your amp... well, you need to check them out again... because on a gig, you'd never notice the difference between an amp generated tone and the modelled tone. Maybe in the studio... but live, no way. The greatest way to get a good sound is to leave it to the sound guy (assuming that he isn't complete tosh - then you are on to a loser regardless). They know the PA, they know the room... and they have the ears out front. OK, your bass may not have the same grind or fx as on the record... but the truth is, most people in the audience won't notice/care. A big bass sound is a big sound with or without distortion... but a clean guitar vs a distorted guitar are two very different things. Of course, you want everything to be perfect... but in multi band setups and the like, it's just not usually practical. This is why a lot of bands have their own soundguy - you've schooled them on what you want... and they are paid to get it. Very different to when you are passing through a small time venue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skidder652003 Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 get yourself a tube preamp DI monster like this sucka, leave the big stuff behind at the smaller gigs and keep you & mr soundman happy at Madison square gardens http://www.davehallamps.co.uk/page53a.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassace Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 We were playing an outdoor festival at the weekend and while I was tuning up my DB the sound man came up to me and said 'I want to hear how your bass sounds so I can get the mix/eq right'. And the PA sound was excellent, so a member of the audience told me. But I always take an XLR out of the amp pre eq. I want to get my backline right and have opportunity to adjust it during the gig without affecting the PA. What comes out of that is entirely up to the sound man. If it's good, then great. If it doesn't, then I'm not too bothered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 That`s a couple of very good points, trust the sound-man and make sure whatever you do on-stage doesn`t affect the PA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 If you think your bass sound is best left to the sound engineer, then you probably have a very "vanilla" bass sound, and if so, you're correct. I have a very dirty bass sound indeed. I've done the same as others and just have an amp sim with DI out at the end of my chain, and give the soundman that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beer of the Bass Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 [quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1497872864' post='3320960'] I'd love to see a soundy in my situation. I have a valve amp with no DI & have no DI pedals, so the only option is to mic me up. [/quote] They'll probably stick a knackered £10 Behringer DI in front of the amp, from past experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 [quote name='Beer of the Bass' timestamp='1497956909' post='3321572'] They'll probably stick a knackered £10 Behringer DI in front of the amp, from past experience. [/quote] Haha, that's true! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 [quote name='cheddatom' timestamp='1497955767' post='3321555'] If you think your bass sound is best left to the sound engineer, then you probably have a very "vanilla" bass sound, and if so, you're correct. I have a very dirty bass sound indeed. I've done the same as others and just have an amp sim with DI out at the end of my chain, and give the soundman that [/quote] There's a phrase I've never really understood, though I get fully what you mean. Vanilla. Vanilla isn't cheap, it has a unique flavour & just about everybody likes it. Cheap "vanilla" ice cream on the other hand, not many people like it & it doesn't even taste of vanilla! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Dare Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 (edited) My suggestion would be to invest in a decent passive DI box and use it post amp (from the effects send or preamp out - a good DI will have pad switches to match the input sensitivity to the signal strength). Using the DI out on your amp carries a risk of the sound person stuffing 48v into it if he/she forgets to disable the phantom power. I've seen it happen. Not good for most onboard DI outs. The transformer in a passive DI will not be affected should that be the case. Edited June 20, 2017 by Dan Dare Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 [quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1497958022' post='3321584'] There's a phrase I've never really understood, though I get fully what you mean. Vanilla. Vanilla isn't cheap, it has a unique flavour & just about everybody likes it. Cheap "vanilla" ice cream on the other hand, not many people like it & it doesn't even taste of vanilla! [/quote] Like an all valve SVT then - expensive, unique sounding and lots of folk like it. However, I don't want my amp to sound like an SVT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 I don't do multi band gigs, but on a festival, I meet the sound guy and introduce myself, get his name, shake his hand and have a chat about the sound. I have great DI's in all my amps. I give the FOH post EQ. I have never had an issue, problem or confrontation with a festival sound crew. I always thank the guys after the gig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CameronJ Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 [quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1497960955' post='3321618'] I don't do multi band gigs, but on a festival, I meet the sound guy and introduce myself, get his name, shake his hand and have a chat about the sound. I have great DI's in all my amps. I give the FOH post EQ. I have never had an issue, problem or confrontation with a festival sound crew. I always thank the guys after the gig. [/quote] I couldn't agree more with this approach. Establish a bit of a rapport with the guy and he'll be more likely to go the extra mile. Communicate! I've done sound checks as a singer with guys who curse under their breath at the fact there's too much/not enough of themselves in a monitor mix (for example) and I've found myself having to calmly explain to them that the sound guy isn't psychic and can't be in two places at once. Then proceeded to politely ask for the adjustment in monitor levels. If you don't ask you don't get most of the time. A thank you costs nothing. Unless of course the sound guy was genuinely terrible and a d*ck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 [quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1497958022' post='3321584'] There's a phrase I've never really understood, though I get fully what you mean. Vanilla. Vanilla isn't cheap, it has a unique flavour & just about everybody likes it. Cheap "vanilla" ice cream on the other hand, not many people like it & it doesn't even taste of vanilla! [/quote] I quite agree, but we all know what the phrase means and I don't know what else to say instead. I didn't mean a bland bass sound, but I did mean "every day" or "common" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 [quote name='CameronJ' timestamp='1497961784' post='3321627'] Unless of course the sound guy was genuinely terrible and a d*ck [/quote] They do crop up. Maybe it's luck but in many years I've only ever encountered 1 totally incompetent sound engineer. Unfortunately, if you're unlucky enough to bump into one of these guys there's not a lot you can do about it. For your own satisfaction you have to make sure that, whatever happens, you're going to be the absolute professional to the end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 [quote name='cheddatom' timestamp='1497963882' post='3321641'] I quite agree, but we all know what the phrase means and I don't know what else to say instead. I didn't mean a bland bass sound, but I did mean "every day" or "common" [/quote] The way I see it is that a good old fashioned vanilla sound that everyone out front can enjoy is better than a salted caramel with hand twirled toffee sauce that can only be enjoyed by the player and maybe the front row, there's nothing worse than seeing a band with a generic but great bass sound then on the third song he applies "his sound" with the pedal board or whatever never to be heard again Flea is the worst person for it and I presume he and his crew know a thing or two, how a sound guy at a festival is going to keep up with all your patches that he's never heard before with a fifteen minute band change over I'll never know but hey it's "your sound" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 [quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1497972582' post='3321733'] The way I see it is that a good old fashioned vanilla sound that everyone out front can enjoy is better than a salted caramel with hand twirled toffee sauce that can only be enjoyed by the player and maybe the front row, there's nothing worse than seeing a band with a generic but great bass sound then on the third song he applies "his sound" with the pedal board or whatever never to be heard again Flea is the worst person for it and I presume he and his crew know a thing or two, how a sound guy at a festival is going to keep up with all your patches that he's never heard before with a fifteen minute band change over I'll never know but hey it's "your sound" [/quote] Sound engineers seem to cope perfectly well with the multitude of sounds that guitarists and keyboard players throw at them. What makes the bass so different? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 I'd say they are still operating in the frequency area that is easier to get out front to the audience even if it's a horrible sound, I know that's not what you want to hear, you want to point out about mics for guitarists rather than crap Di boxes but that's life, chances are if there's two minutes to spare to run the fx pedals through the foh the guitarist will get them, you might get time for a clean and a dirty each if your lucky, 150 presets that all sound great in the practice room, nah forget it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 Fwiw I'd say keys have it just as bad as us, one song they sound great and cut through just nice, the next one they are just a weird phazey mush. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SH73 Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 When I was in late teens I owned a black widow Pavey.The sound tech turned my bass down coming out the PA so I just turned the Pavey right up onstage.The gig was in a medium sized theatre and Pavey was loud enough for the circumstances. Stuff you sound techs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 [quote name='SH73' timestamp='1497986314' post='3321840'] When I was in late teens I owned a black widow Pavey.The sound tech turned my bass down coming out the PA so I just turned the Pavey right up onstage.The gig was in a medium sized theatre and Pavey was loud enough for the circumstances. Stuff you sound techs. [/quote] Was that some sort of rip off Peavey? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SH73 Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 [quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1498000447' post='3321959'] Was that some sort of rip off Peavey? [/quote] No it was not. I still have it. It is stored at my parents house.It hasn't been properly used for 25 years. Some idiot who had access to a rehearsal room decided to use it for a disco night without my permission and since it has sounded distorted. I checked the speaker and it seems fine. Might require a little fix but probably will cost more to fix than sell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Starr Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 Completely off topic but in old Black Widow speakers the glues tend to break down over time. The glues are used to hold the dust caps on and fix the corrugated surrounds to the speaker frame. It's a simple repair to ease tehm off then stick them back with a latex based glue like Copydex. just be careful not to pull the cone off centre when you glue the surround. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 [quote name='Phil Starr' timestamp='1498032511' post='3322042'] Completely off topic but in old Black Widow speakers the glues tend to break down over time. The glues are used to hold the dust caps on and fix the corrugated surrounds to the speaker frame. It's a simple repair to ease tehm off then stick them back with a latex based glue like Copydex. just be careful not to pull the cone off centre when you glue the surround. [/quote] Is that applicable to Pavey Black Widows? Or is it just Peavey Black Widows? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 [quote name='SH73' timestamp='1498025588' post='3321986'] No it was not. I still have it. It is stored at my parents house.It hasn't been properly used for 25 years. Some idiot who had access to a rehearsal room decided to use it for a disco night without my permission and since it has sounded distorted. I checked the speaker and it seems fine. Might require a little fix but probably will cost more to fix than sell. [/quote] I think EBS_freak post should have had a :-) after it. It was more a comment your (or your device's) inability to spell "Peavey" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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