Are Electric Guitars Dying A Slow Death

[chris_b]

[quote name='peteb' timestamp='1498255170' post='3323531']
The thing with Gibson is that they have relied so much on their name for so long and the quality of their new stuff is so poor for what they charge, that anyone with that sort of money will buy from the many other guitar builders that offer better pieces at much better value.
[/quote]

Two "Gibson fan" guitarists I played with a few years ago wouldn't buy Gibson any more because the quality was so bad. One bought an Orville and the other a Burny. Both far better Gibson copies made by Japanese companies in the 80's.

[Roger2611]

I don't think the electric guitar is dying, it is evolving, technology seems to be paying a bigger part, look at band like White Stripes, Slaves or Royal Blood (on at Glastonbury yesterday) man with guitar / bass and a hefty amount of technical jiggery pokery creating the whole band sound and doing it very well, I imagine they will be the artistes inspiring a lot of younger players......maybe it's not the death of the electric guitar that we should be worried about maybe it's the death of the stand alone guitarist / bassist that is more of a threat!

[PaulWarning]

you'll like this Blue, the guy from Decca who turned the Beatles down in 1962 did so because "Guitar bands are finished"

[Mykesbass]

[quote name='Cato' timestamp='1498253137' post='3323502']
It's a cycical thing.

We get the same sort of articles over here every few years.

I remember journalists claiming guitar music was dying in the 90s just before the Britpop explosion of the 90s, and again shortly before Artic Monkeys inspired a whole load of new guitar bands.
[/quote]

Yes, the piece managed to completely miss Oasis, who single handedly revived the ES style guitar.

[quote name='gjones' timestamp='1498266290' post='3323572']
My niece is in her mid twenties and she would disagree. She and her friends love guitar, based, bands. She loved Johnny Marr, and John Mayer (very different styles), when she was growing up. She also loved Courtney Love and her band Hole, which were very guitar based. She loved guitars so much that she stole her dad's and formed her own band. Her band is doing pretty good and she plays to sold out venues in the UK and Europe (she's toured the US too, a couple of times).

She's now one of the 10 acts that have been shortlisted for the Scottish Album Of The Year awards 2017.

Hopefully she'll inspire a whole new generation of kids to get themselves an electric guitar. I know it was the best decision, the 16 year old me, ever made.


This is her...........guitar bands rule!!

[/quote]
That's great!

Oh, and plenty of guitars in use in Somerset this weekend!!

[project_c]

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1498294498' post='3323657']
Last time I looked, it was the Washington Post that was dying slowly ...
[/quote]

Yes, the Washington Post, those evil spreaders of fake news. Don't believe a word they say, they are funded by satanic pizza worshippers from Mexico.

There is clearly a decline in the numbers of young people getting into playing electric guitar and it's only partly down to a lack of role models. Music and subculture has less social relevance now than it did a generation ago. Young people have other ways to entertain themselves. 40 years ago a teenager had fewer options.

Also the music industry is dying, but whatever is left of it consists of many artists who don't get involved with guitars. 40 years ago, if you wanted to play music you had to learn to play an instrument. Now, if you're young and into music, there's many other options, and most of them don't involve electric guitars.

The fact that your average guitar fan looks like a grandad probably also doesn't help. The last thing you need as a teenager is to be associated with anything that old people do.

It's just the world changing, as it always does. Fender and Gibson will be tiny custom shops for niche audiences within a couple of generations. The current situation will change gradually, but steadily, as boomers start to dwindle in numbers over the next handful of years. Electric guitars will carry on, but they will be collected by a small core following and for most people they'll be remembered with fondness, a bit like film photography.

[chris_b]

The same articles could have been written about accordions, saxophones, trumpets and banjos when the popularity of their music was on the wane. 100 years ago tens of thousands of homes had an upright piano in the parlour. Where are they all now?

Hawaiian music was the most popular music that bands were playing on the West Coast when Fender started. Most of his early instruments were designed and intended for this type of band. All gone.

My parents wouldn't have gone to a festival if you paid them, now several friends and their kids are at Glasto. My son regularly phones me up and asks if I want to see "so and so". I took him to see Vulfpeck. You can't rebel or be cool in a band anymore. There is no counter-culture.

I don't think that "guitar hero" music will be played much after the current generation hangs up their Strats. I see some sons of "oldies" out there playing but most of the kids are off doing something else. Maybe the music will never die but it will never be the all encompassing interest of a generation again. There will be no requirement for the tools of the trade either. Yes the electric guitar is in for a serious "readjustment".

Edited June 24, 2017 by chris_b

[EliasMooseblaster]

A couple of thoughts:

[quote name='musicbassman' timestamp='1498290197' post='3323630']
Mass manufacturers can’t keep on churning out millions of guitars a year into an already saturated market, no matter how cheap and well made they are, so maybe their days are numbered.
[/quote]
[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1498297071' post='3323667']
Two "Gibson fan" guitarists I played with a few years ago wouldn't buy Gibson any more because the quality was so bad.
[/quote]
[quote name='project_c' timestamp='1498297837' post='3323680']
Fender and Gibson will be tiny custom shops for niche audiences within a couple of generations. The current situation will change gradually, but steadily, as boomers start to dwindle in numbers over the next handful of years. Electric guitars will carry on, but they will be collected by a small core following and for most people they'll be remembered with fondness, a bit like film photography.
[/quote]

^ My first thought on reading the article was that it was guilty of a massive selection bias. Fender, Gibson, and Guitar Centre - huge companies who depend on shifting thousands of old and rather generic designs each year while simultaneously competing with enormous second-hand and collectors' markets that they've helped to saturate in advance? I'm not surprised they're in a spot of bother. I would be interested to see whether someone like Adrian Marusczyk or Mike Lull is having the same problems.


[quote name='gjones' timestamp='1498266290' post='3323572']
My niece is in her mid twenties and she would disagree. She and her friends love guitar, based, bands.
She's now one of the 10 acts that have been shortlisted for the Scottish Album Of The Year awards 2017.
[/quote]

Without wishing to sound patronising, is it the ladies' turn to take over what's previously been a very male-dominated field? I rather enjoyed that song, and I'm also very aware that a lot of the big names in modern blues happen to be female guitarists. I know Joe Bonamassa seems to be one of the most well-known players at the moment, but there's no shortage of people who prefer Joanne Shaw Taylor or Chantel McGregor for blues-rock, Samantha Fish for country-blues, or Erja Lyytinnen and Ana Popovic for something a bit more soul-oriented.

[skankdelvar]

The article oversimplifies the prevailing situation. While electric guitar sales are down, Gibson, Fender, Guitar Center (sic) and PRS each have problems which are unrelated (or at least tangential) to the global market.

* As is well documented, Gibson have been all over the place for the last ten years or so. Poor QC, weird designs, failed attempts at MIDI and self-tuning guitars. Many attribute this to Henry Juskiewicz and his erratic management style

* Fender are labouring under the dual burden of (i) an over-diverse range and (ii) weak financials caused in part by an over-reliance on sales to Guitar Center. The latter is because the hedge fund that owns part of Fender also owns a slab of Guitar Center and encouraged a risky deal between the two companies.

Additionally, Fender have been dragged off course by a weak attempt at brand diversification - headphones, music players etc. Also, having Bono on the company's board may be a mixed blessing.

* Encouraged by their hedge fund owners Guitar Centre basically bought in tons of stuff and got caught by a declining market, dragging Fender with them

* PRS have long occupied a narrow position between the Big Two. Despite enjoying success with the SE range have found it difficult to break into in the mid-market. They also have a challenge expanding their offering beyond the classic PRS shape, see the Mira, Darla and Vela. Their PRS amps and acoustic guitars haven't exactly set the world on fire.

Nevertheless, there are some bright spots out there. Chris 'the nicest man in the industry' Martin recently saw his company produce their two millionth acoustic guitar. It was a bit blingy for my taste but fair play to him.

[Grangur]

I raised this point sometime back and I was firmly told I was talking complete trash. Youngsters are as excited about music now as they ever were.

Privately I think video games and other tech has been the replacement activity that now provides the distraction and entertainment. The exception to this is where the young have musical role-models who help keep live music on the agenda.

[Grangur]

Another thing that might influence the situation is, if you have an instrument, it's now easier to give up and sell it on to a nationwide market.

The difference this brings is the easy sell means the guitar won't hang around for long. In the past it would have been sitting there in your bedroom nagging you to pick it up again.

[Mykesbass]

[quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1498324597' post='3323885']
I raised this point sometime back and I was firmly told I was talking complete trash. Youngsters are as excited about music now as they ever were.

Privately I think video games and other tech has been the replacement activity that now provides the distraction and entertainment. The exception to this is where the young have musical role-models who help keep live music on the agenda.
[/quote]
Video games and tech are really mass market. I think some people are thinking that playing an instrument is way more mainstream than it actually is, or ever was.

[Grangur]

[quote name='Mykesbass' timestamp='1498324961' post='3323888']

Video games and tech are really mass market. I think some people are thinking that playing an instrument is way more mainstream than it actually is, or ever was.
[/quote]
Agreed, playing music was never mass market. But I think fewer kids today dream of being a rock star.

[T-Bay]

[quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1498326677' post='3323905']

Agreed, playing music was never mass market. But I think fewer kids today dream of being a rock star.
[/quote]
I think as many dream of it but fewer are prepared to put in the required effort, hence the popularity of programs such as X factor.

[FinnDave]

I am sure most electric guitars are dying a slow death. I blame the central heating.

[dmccombe7]

It seems that everyone i knew when i was in my mid to late teens (70's) was playing guitar or bass or in bands in some fashion or other.
On reflection tho it was probably a small minority from the friends i knew at school.
My social circle on leaving school was based around music, playing in bands or going to see bands every other night. Venues would run band nights every night of the week in some pubs.
On the other hand many or probably the majority of my school friends went to disco's rather than see live bands and i'm not sure that the proportion of musicians against non-musicians has changed that much.

I have teenage neices that are into heavy rock and you only have to look at the various rock and Prog festivals in UK to see there is still a huge following of that style of music.
I also know many young bands doing the circuit in Central belt area so there's no shortage of younger kids out there playing.

Like someone else mentioned its maybe that the big companies have just over produced and that pruduction from all the major companies has over-run the number of people buying new guitars or basses.
The 2nd hand market has such a huge selection these days compared to when i was just staring in mid 70's. All you could get was basically Gibson, Fender, Rik with a smaller selection of cheaper Asian copies. Nowadays the market is awash with manufacturers whether originals or copies on a theme.

Dave

[gjones]

[quote name='musicbassman' timestamp='1498290197' post='3323630']
Well, boo hoo for the guitar dealers and mass manufacturers – decent guitars (and basses) aren’t an ever evolving product with a limited life - like a family car that is worn out and obsolete after 10 years. You’re selling musical instruments, not refrigerators.
Decent guitars, with a few exceptions, usually play just as well (or better) at 20 or 30 years old than when new. Unless they are physically damaged or subject to extremes of heat or humidity they still play perfectly and any minor electrical or fret problems can be quite easily fixed.
So there is not just an ever decreasing customer base amongst the young, as the article explains, but most older players already have several guitars, and unless they have chronic GAS maybe rather wish they had a few less.
Mass manufacturers can’t keep on churning out millions of guitars a year into an already saturated market, no matter how cheap and well made they are, so maybe their days are numbered.
[/quote]

True, guitars don't have a built in obsolescence like other consumer goods. To many people, the older a guitar is, the more desirable it becomes.

[bazzbass]

So many youngsters are starting out with Rocksmith. Once they pass the beginner stage they buy better guitars. They try emulated bass in Rocksmith and they all go and buy a bass.So many new guitarists have gotten much further with this software than they ever did trying to learn via online lessons. I think young players have it better than we ever did. I see lot's of young people on various forums so I think music is gonna be OK.

PS and the reason we all took up the bass is still relevant today,to impress the opposite (or same) sex

Edited June 25, 2017 by bazztard

[Grangur]

Just a thought: if Gibson and Fender are seeing a drip off in sales, does this really mean the market is declining? Is it because Americans are buying well made foreign instruments at lower prices?
Are users bored with the year-old look of the Fender P and Jazz?

[louisthebass]

Interesting article, and I'm not sure that the electric guitar will ever completely die out, but it will be very much a "minority" pastime as the years progress. Those companies making huge losses just need to start cutting their cloth accordingly. I also think that people don't really have the money to be able to afford to buy instruments - wages for most people are low, and other things take priority.

There are a lot of kids / young people who are growing up with technology, and in my experience they want something that can be mastered fairly quickly (Playstation, X-Box, etc). A lot of music that features guitar isn't featured on mainstream radio either. Learning a musical instrument takes time and effort (as everyone on here knows) and the market in this day and age for guitars (and basses) will be a lot smaller than it was back in the 60's and 70's.

[Drax]

[quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1498372673' post='3324077']
Just a thought: if Gibson and Fender are seeing a drip off in sales, does this really mean the market is declining? Is it because Americans are buying well made foreign instruments at lower prices?
Are users bored with the year-old look of the Fender P and Jazz?
[/quote]

That's how I read this. The behemoths struggling isn't the full picture. Sire, Thomann, etc - having a different time.

Interesting that Gibson was just $5m in '86..

[Mykesbass]

There's also the non-playing ownership to consider. I knew the artist rep for Gibson UK in the 90s. He told me a huge number of their guitars were being bought by well paid professionals to hang on the office wall. Guys (always guys) who had longed for a Les Paul in their youth but couldn't afford it were buying them as trophies. Gibson were at that time trying to align themselves as the third iconic American brand. Ride a Harley, drink JD, play a Gibson. I'm guessing the guys reaching this point of their career now don't have the same interests anymore.

Edited June 25, 2017 by Mykesbass

[oldbass]

Young players now are too far from the blues. The electric guitars heyday was playing blues style rock etc...all t[size=4]his current fast down strumming makes me cringe. Yes the guitar is doomed.[/size]

[steantval]

In answer to your question - no.
Nile Rodgers just proved that point at Glastonbury.

Edited June 25, 2017 by steantval

[blue]

[quote name='bazztard' timestamp='1498359616' post='3324068']
So many youngsters are starting out with Rocksmith. Once they pass the beginner stage they buy better guitars. They try emulated bass in Rocksmith and they all go and buy a bass.So many new guitarists have gotten much further with this software than they ever did trying to learn via online lessons. I think young players have it better than we ever did. I see lot's of young people on various forums so I think music is gonna be OK.

PS and the reason we all took up the bass is still relevant today,to impress the opposite (or same) sex
[/quote]

64,with the learning technology available to beginners today as compared to my generation there really no reason to suck.

Blue

[blue]

[quote name='oldbass' timestamp='1498427986' post='3324590']
Young players now are too far from the blues. The electric guitars heyday was playing blues style rock etc...all t[size=4]his current fast down strumming makes me cringe. Yes the guitar is doomed.[/size]
[/quote]

I definitely see a lack of improvisational skills with the younger generation.

I've seen it where they only know songs and if they get lost in a song they can't even find their way back.

I've started grooves based around the A 7th chord with a drummer. I'm waiting for the other guitarist to join in. No such luck. They just stand there with this confused look on their faces.

For me, all those endless hours of rock and blues jams ( not open mics ) back in the 60s paid off.

Blue

Edited June 25, 2017 by blue