Are Electric Guitars Dying A Slow Death

[Dad3353]

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1498433362' post='3324631']
I definitely see a lack of improvisational skills with the younger generation.

I've seen it where they only know songs and if they get lost in a song they can't even find their way back.

For me, all those endless hours of rock and blues jams ( not open mics ) back in the 60s paid off.

Blue
[/quote]

Yeah, sure, but you're [i]old [/i]now, innit..? I don't think even [i]you [/i]had those skills when you were just starting out (ie: young...), so give the kiddies a break and allow 'em a bit of time to hone those skills, maybe..? For many, t'will come, sure 'nuff ('n Yes I do... ). There are many that can improvise with the best of 'em, at all ages, I'd say. Why, I even know of some [i]old [/i]folks that can't improvise for toffee..!

[blue]

[quote name='EliasMooseblaster' timestamp='1498308884' post='3323781']
A couple of thoughts:





^ My first thought on reading the article was that it was guilty of a massive selection bias. Fender, Gibson, and Guitar Centre - huge companies who depend on shifting thousands of old and rather generic designs each year while simultaneously competing with enormous second-hand and collectors' markets that they've helped to saturate in advance? I'm not surprised they're in a spot of bother. I would be interested to see whether someone like Adrian Marusczyk or Mike Lull is having the same problems.




Without wishing to sound patronising, is it the ladies' turn to take over what's previously been a very male-dominated field? I rather enjoyed that song, and I'm also very aware that a lot of the big names in modern blues happen to be female guitarists. I know Joe Bonamassa seems to be one of the most well-known players at the moment, but there's no shortage of people who prefer Joanne Shaw Taylor or Chantel McGregor for blues-rock, Samantha Fish for country-blues, or Erja Lyytinnen and Ana Popovic for something a bit more soul-oriented.
[/quote]

Couldn't agree more. Joe's act is way to polished and perfect for my taste. However, I have seen him do some bar jams and he's outstanding. Now that I think about it, Joe can play both sides of the fence. Most of my Woodstock era buddies won't cut Joe any slack.

When is Chantel coming to the States?

Blue

Edited June 26, 2017 by blue

[blue]

[quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1498324597' post='3323885']
I raised this point sometime back and I was firmly told I was talking complete trash. Youngsters are as excited about music now as they ever were.[/quote]

64. I suppose there are exceptions.No one can convince me the young generation is as excited about new bands, artist and live music as my generation was.

Blue

Edited June 25, 2017 by blue

[blue]

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1498433792' post='3324634']


Yeah, sure, but you're [i]old [/i]now, innit..? I don't think even [i]you [/i]had those skills when you were just starting out (ie: young...), so give the kiddies a break and allow 'em a bit of time to hone those skills, maybe..? For many, t'will come, sure 'nuff ('n Yes I do... ). There are many that can improvise with the best of 'em, at all ages, I'd say. Why, I even know of some [i]old [/i]folks that can't improvise for toffee..!
[/quote]

I'm older not old. I'll never be old.

Improvising and jamming was how me and my buddies started out. We didn't start out writing songs for our cd.

I would argue the young guys with really good improvisational skills are the exception. At least in Milwaukee.

Blue

Edited June 25, 2017 by blue

[Dad3353]

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1498434776' post='3324637']
I'm older not old. I'll never be old...
[/quote]

Many of your broad generalisations bely this vain illusion, old friend..!

Edited June 25, 2017 by Dad3353

[project_c]

Not condoning the use of illicit substances in any way, but purely as a scientific experiment while at Glastonbury, why not use the opportunity to buy a big bag of bitter tasting powder from a friendly local youth, and spend the evening pulling funny faces and making friends with everyone in one of the electronic music tents? It should give you an interesting insight into what kind of experience music without guitars is capable of providing. Those repetitive beats and wobbly basslines can be a lot of fun, and they're fine without any guitars.

Ultimately it's experiencing music that is important, not so much what it's played on. People will always be into music, but not necessarily guitars. Guitars sound dated to many people, even to people my age (40s), and it's hard to squeeze any new sounds out of them, it's all been done. Anything that sounds genuinely new involves digital effects, but then you end up sounding like guitars trying to imitate synths. Like the whole 'dubstep using bass guitars' thing, which is cheesy and it never sounds as legit as actual dubstep. It's like playing thrash metal on a violin. You can kind of do it but it's never going to be quite right.

The key thing is that guitars have a diminishing role in music. They're appropriate for some things, but there's a whole bunch of mainstream genres now which do not have a blues heritage, and for those genres guitars are not needed at all.

[blue]

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1498435137' post='3324639']


Many of your broad generalisations bely this vain illusion, old friend..!
[/quote]

The opinions and broad generalization of an "Older Cat". Not to be confused with "Old Cat"


Blue

[blue]

[quote name='project_c' timestamp='1498435433' post='3324641']
Not condoning the use of illicit substances in any way, but purely as a scientific experiment while at Glastonbury, why not use the opportunity to buy a big bag of bitter tasting powder from a friendly local youth, and spend the evening pulling funny faces and making friends with everyone in one of the electronic music tents? It should give you an interesting insight into what kind of experience music without guitars is capable of providing. Those repetitive beats and wobbly basslines can be a lot of fun, and they're fine without any guitars.

Ultimately it's experiencing music that is important, not so much what it's played on. People will always be into music, but not necessarily guitars. Guitars sound dated to many people, even to people my age (40s), and it's hard to squeeze any new sounds out of them, it's all been done. Anything that sounds genuinely new involves digital effects, but then you end up sounding like guitars trying to imitate synths. Like the whole 'dubstep using bass guitars' thing, which is cheesy and it never sounds as legit as actual dubstep. It's like playing thrash metal on a violin. You can kind of do it but it's never going to be quite right.

The key thing is that guitars have a diminishing role in music. They're appropriate for some things, but there's a whole bunch of mainstream genres now which do not have a blues heritage, and for those genres guitars are not needed at all.
[/quote]


Old School electric guitar.

https://youtu.be/nU8yuWddw0E

Blue

Edited June 26, 2017 by blue

[12stringbassist]

New guitar sales in stores are mainly declining because a whole lot of people are going to Ebay to pick up 'as new' guitars.
We are getting to the point where a lot of people's collections are coming back onto the market.

[Twincam]

I actually believe there will be a rebirth of guitar music.
A lot of younger people already know a lot of popular music is crap, and eventually everyone gets sick of hearing the same stuff.
I bet many people thought acoustic music was well and trully dead at one point, now its seeing a bit of a rival the past few years and it will inspire many no doubt.

I read a article that Martin guitars were selling more acoustics than they ever had! Although that article was I believe 2014.

There will be another Nirvana moment, of sorts.
Everyone will get sick/bored of the already over produced stuff out now. And some young band will explode onto the scene. This will conecide with younger folk being bored of living there lives online taking selfies etc and they will start getting out there socialising again.

However because we have more choice of everything these days no "scene" or hobby etc will be as big as things were when there wasn't as much choice.
By that token I also believe it will make things harder to totally die out completely.

Plus a good sound never dies watch some of the kids/teens react to Nivrana the Beatles etc on youtube.

And as already mentioned playing a guitar does impress the opposite sex.
And adding it can still generate money and dare I say likes and followers on social media.
Guitar is not done by a long shot.

As for big brands dying out. That's there own fault really. Charging way over the top prices (for mass manufactured goods). And not enough differences between bottom line and top line products. And resting on there laurels.

Edited June 26, 2017 by Twincam

[Musicman20]

If sales have decreased over here (especially for the American Fender and Gibson models) it will all be down to the higher pricing we've seen over the past year.

I love buying Musicman instruments but through no fault of their own I won't be buying for a good few years, maybe longer...the current UK pricing is far too high on most good quality instruments due to the £.

[BigRedX]

I think we have always been over-focused on the kinds of instruments used to produce the music rather than just the music itself. Hence the popularity of bands like Royal Blood who have one or two decent songs and a gimmick. Don't get me wrong, a good gimmick is essential to help promote a band and their music, but I'm now at the point where the instruments used are irrelevant. All I'm interested in is whether or not I like the music.

And IME young people are still very interested in music. However they don't buy very much because they don't need to. Why spend money buying vinyl/CDs/downloads when you can stream all your favourite songs for free or watch the videos on YouTube any time you want to? These days just about everything is available no matter how obscure. When I was getting into music, hearing my favourite songs meant listening all day to Radio 1 to catch the couple of times that they would be played, or buying the record. There were no other options. And if you wanted to hear music that wasn't the latest single or album you had to buy it. I'm sure that if Spotify had been available back in the day I wouldn't have bothered spending money on records or CDs.

And as for the problems of the big guitar manufacturers, I think a lot of it is down to the over-stuaration of the market. Why buy new when you can get pretty much anything you want second hand for about half the price? And there's just so much more choice on eBay then your local musical instrument retailer could ever hope to compete with. The only way I could see myself buying new these days would be if I was wanting a specific custom instrument from a small-scale luthier. If I want something mainstream, I'm happy to wait for it to turn up second hand.

Edited June 26, 2017 by BigRedX

[Grangur]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1498478234' post='3324834']...

And as for the problems of the big guitar manufacturers, I think a lot of it is down to the over-stuaration of the market. Why buy new when you can get pretty much anything you want second hand for about half the price? And there's just so much more choice on eBay then your local musical instrument retailer could ever hope to compete with. The only way I could see myself buying new these days would be if I was wording a specific custom instrument from a small-scale luthier. If I want something mainstream, I'm happy to wait for it to turn up second hand.
[/quote]
Good points. Something to also consider is if some of these "big name" builders rely very heavily on CNC manufacturing. Surely a CNC machine in China, if set up well, is every bit as good as one sitting in the USA? So, why pay for an American made instrument? Ok, the hardware used may not be as good, but you can address that.

So, as most instruments probably never go on stage; so branding won't matter, why not buy a cheap copy? If it's a second-hand bargain, so much the better.

[chris_b]

[quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1498479667' post='3324854']
So, as most instruments probably never go on stage; so branding won't matter
[/quote]

I've posted this before, but a friend wanted to buy himself a great 50th birthday present and went looking for a guitar. He was shown a US Fender Strat in the shop and said, "Isn't that a bit posh? I'm only going to play this at home". The guy in the shop said, "90% of the guitars we sell are being played at home, and the other 10% should be!"

[Barking Spiders]

A lot of fair points being raised especially about what seems to be a thriving 'like new ' market on EBay etc. I've sold three there myself. I used to think part of the decline was because of younger punters turning away from rock but I was surprised at the number of teens and 20 somethings at Download and am seeing more in the streets wearing rock band t shirts. But I don't think anyone can argue that the electric guitar and the lead guitarist aren't as iconic now as they once were

[Monkey Steve]

I think the whole article is based on the wrong metric to justify it's claim that fewer people are playing the guitar these days - all it shows is declining sales on new guitars in the US.

i did a bit of googling, which showed me a widely mis-quoted figure of 2.7m sales taken from an industry sales website (trying to sell people the data) and clearly marked up as "figures for illustration only, not correct", and then found this which backs up the figures in the article:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/439911/number-of-electric-guitars-sold-in-the-us/

A couple of points:

The "decline from 1.5m to 1.0m sales per annum over the last decade" is true, but in fact sales have been pretty stable since 2009.

Next, this shows nothing for non-US sales. How have, say, electric guitar sales in China done over the same period?

And surely second hand sales have a huge impact on this. We now have 40 to 50+ years of approaching critical mass for guitars - there have never been more guitars on the planet at any previous point in our history and it's never been easier to sell a guitar that you don't want any more.

I think this last point links neatly in to the problems that shops are having - the supply of dirt cheap second hand guitars for them to sell has almost completely dried up. I remember having exactly this conversation with somebody in a shop on Denmark Street over a decade ago who was really struggling to keep his business going - why sell to a shop who will give you 50% of the s/h price when you can sell it on eBay and get 100% of the s/h price? They were relying on people who either needed cash in a hurry or didn't have a clue about how to sell it themselves, and people who knew what their guitars were worth tended not to come in any more.

I'm also a little sceptical about the "kids don't want to learn the guitar any more" line. The decline in sales tells us nothing about how many people are starting to learn the guitar - we can't see if that 0.5m drop in sales is £3k Les Pauls or £300 Epiphone starter kits. And it says nothing about how many kids have bought a second hand Epiphone starter kit on eBay from somebody who's now graduated to a Les Paul.

I think we're biased - we were all kids who wanted to learn the guitar/bass and probably hung out with other kids who wanted to be in a band so we know loads of people of our age who wanted to play the guitar/bass, but very few of my friends and colleagues that I do not know from bands play an instrument, or played when they were younger. But I have two colleagues whose sons (early/mid teens) who take playing their guitars very seriously indeed.

And I'm very suspicious about using the number of people going for lessons as the way to measure this when, as the article states at the end, there is plenty of material on line to teach you how to play without needing to get your parents to stump up. I'm not saying that it isn't on the decline - I have no way of telling - but the article doesn't seem to back this up either way.

In summary, it may be right or wrong, but I don't think the data supports the conclusions that the article is drawing. The only thing it really tells us is that the big manufacturers are not doing as well as they used to, and that shops are suffering, but as for the reasons, I think it's a bit more complicated than anything the article says.

[Grangur]

[quote name='Barking Spiders' timestamp='1498492496' post='3324995']
A lot of fair points being raised especially about what seems to be a thriving 'like new ' market on EBay etc. I've sold three there myself. I used to think part of the decline was because of younger punters turning away from rock but I was surprised at the number of teens and 20 somethings at Download and am seeing more in the streets wearing rock band t shirts. But I don't think anyone can argue that the electric guitar and the lead guitarist aren't as iconic now as they once were
[/quote]
Isn't this situation promoted in the media and recording industry?
Thinking of talent shows; they're all about promoting a singer in front of a staff band.
Aren't most contemporary recording artists, seen in videos as simply singers with scant exposure of any kind of band of musicians on show?
Even if you see a band on TV, the cameras are centred on the singer and lead guitarist.

Edited June 26, 2017 by Grangur

[ambient]

[color=#1D2129]If I examine the kind of music I've been listening to over the past 5-10 years it is not guitar centered at all. The truth is, for me at least, virtually none of the new exciting sounds in music are coming from guitar players. And if does, they are guitarists that so brilliantly disguise the source of their sounds you'd never know or think "guitar"[/color]

[blue]

I've played shows where 21 year olds were seeing a rock band with live electric guitars blazing for the first time in their life.I remember feeling like we were an historical exhibit in a museum.



When I was 21, I had 11 years of being in bands under my belt.

Blue

Edited June 26, 2017 by blue