Mark bass. New or old?

[ellangus]

My son is looking for a new rig and is heading down the Mark bass route (LIttle Mark head and possibly a 2x10 cab for portability). Is the Italian made stuff any better than the more recent gear?
Thanks

[franzbassist]

I read recently from a shop owner that QC has improved following the relocation of manufacture to Indonesia. I have owned Indonesian and Italian made Markbass amplification and can't say I've seen any drop in quality.

Edited May 26, 2020 by franzbassist

[chris_b]

Some fantastic gear is made in Asia.

Where it's made isn't the issue. What is important is how seriously the company takes it's reputation. The Asians can make anything they are asked to. If they are asked to make a good quality product they will. The question is did Markbass maintain their sound and quality when they switched?

Go and listen to the new amps and decide.

[Hobbayne]

I have an Indonesian made CMD 121 with the extension cab and they are deffo top quality.

[Treb]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1498473105' post='3324774']
Some fantastic gear is made in Asia.

Where it's made isn't the issue. What is important is how seriously the company takes it's reputation. The Asians can make anything they are asked to. If they are asked to make a good quality product they will. The question is did Markbass maintain their sound and quality when they switched?

Go and listen to the new amps and decide.
[/quote]

This is the right answer. Made in China* used to be synonymous with crap quality (in some cases it still is though) but keep in mind that a lot of quality stuff is being made there too. A CNC router doesn't care about where on earth it's operating; feed it the correct commands and it will consistently perform time and again. * insert your Asian country of choice here

[ellangus]

That was pretty much my thoughts. It's just that some people seem to make a point that theirs is Italian made when selling one which made me wonder if they were somehow superior.

[GreeneKing]

[quote name='ellangus' timestamp='1498487247' post='3324948']
That was pretty much my thoughts. It's just that some people seem to make a point that theirs is Italian made when selling one which made me wonder if they were somehow superior.
[/quote]

It's become a tad traditional I think. When MarkBass first moved production to the Far East there were some concerns. They seem to have been alleviated with time.

Yes I did it too

[P-T-P]

I've had both Italian made and Indonesian made and can't say I noticed any difference in quality or tone.

[ellangus]

[quote name='GreeneKing' timestamp='1498487409' post='3324949']
It's become a tad traditional I think. When MarkBass first moved production to the Far East there were some concerns. They seem to have been alleviated with time.

[color=#ff8c00]Yes I did it too [/color]
[/quote]

Must Admit, I hadn't noticed,

[bazzbass]

no quality issues with my Indonesian made Little Mark 250 Blackline

[oo.viper.oo]

I think it's more of a philosophical matter. When I have a choice between Italian and Asian-made MB, I choose Italian, because I have a feeling the money stays in Europe, so to speak. I prefer supporting Italian workers, than Indonesian or Chinese workers. Quality-wise it shouldn't be much different nowadays, MB has tight QC.

[yorks5stringer]

I seem to remember Marco appearing on this forum a few years ago saying that as many of the components were sourced from the far east, it made sense to assemble them there too.I think there is still final QC in Italy?
Oh, and I've had their stuff from both countries and not noticed any difference, other than when they first moved to Indonesia, the prices dropped. However that benefit has now been neutralised....

Edited June 27, 2017 by yorks5stringer

[bazzbass]

I'm so old I remember when Made In Japan meant poor quality

Cars and guitars . Japanese were the cheap knockoffs in the 70s. Then they became good. Really good

Then it moved to Korea.

Then Indonesia and China.

Chasing the poor underpaid workers lol

I suppose India is next in line.

[mcnach]

There was a guy over in TB who had owned a CMD121P combo for a while, enjoying it, and then opened it to look at the speaker. Apparently it was not a B&C speaker anymore as Markbass had changed and was getting their speakers made by somebody else to the same specs. Good quality, sounding the same etc... but the guy was very bitter about his 'inferior' product, even if he had not been able to tell the difference until he *looked* at it.

The Italy vs Asia thing is pretty much the same. At first I had concerns too, but it's been a while now that the production has moved and quality does not seem to have been lost. You will still get people claiming older Italian ones are better... but there doesn't seem to be any real weight to that claim.

[chris_b]

I had an admittedly low volume rehearsal through a Markbass (Asian) 112 combo last night and it sounded as good as anything I've used in years.

[Musicman20]

I have a soft spot for Markbass, but I thought the idea of them using Indonesian manufacturing was that the final product was cheaper? At first it was a little cheaper, now, not so much. The LM3 is an old design now, it should be selling cheaper.

Ultimately, the decision was probably pure profit.

[yorks5stringer]

[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1498727179' post='3326553']
I have a soft spot for Markbass, but I thought the idea of them using Indonesian manufacturing was that the final product was cheaper? At first it was a little cheaper, now, not so much. The LM3 is an old design now, it should be selling cheaper.

Ultimately, the decision was probably pure profit.
[/quote]

Don't follow your logic. They reduced prices following the move to Indonesia so it was a win/win. Presumably the saving meant they could still make money on it and yet still reduce the prices. The reasons they have gone up since is due to 'exchange issues'

As for 'pure profit': if a company does not make money then it makes it difficult to invest in r&d and new products such as replacing the LMIII. Agree it is towards the the end of its life-cycle, but MB have introduced a raft of new amps and combos over the last couple of years....

Edited June 30, 2017 by yorks5stringer

[Nebadon2000]

On 28/06/2017 at 04:44, mcnach said:

There was a guy over in TB who had owned a CMD121P combo for a while, enjoying it, and then opened it to look at the speaker. Apparently it was not a B&C speaker anymore as Markbass had changed and was getting their speakers made by somebody else to the same specs. Good quality, sounding the same etc... but the guy was very bitter about his 'inferior' product, even if he had not been able to tell the difference until he *looked* at it.

The Italy vs Asia thing is pretty much the same. At first I had concerns too, but it's been a while now that the production has moved and quality does not seem to have been lost. You will still get people claiming older Italian ones are better... but there doesn't seem to be any real weight to that claim.

That is a tad deceptive; He complained the woofer was 'farting out' and found speaker change during his investigation also Markbass switched from A/B Class Amp to D class. 

That being said I have a 2013 Italian made  121p with new speaker and class D Amp; sounds great.[older design may still be better IDK] They switched design months before moving to Indonesia.

[mcnach]

22 minutes ago, Nebadon2000 said:

That is a tad deceptive; He complained the woofer was 'farting out' and found speaker change during his investigation also Markbass switched from A/B Class Amp to D class. 

That being said I have a 2013 Italian made  121p with new speaker and class D Amp; sounds great.[older design may still be better IDK] They switched design months before moving to Indonesia.

 

Not the one I saw. He started by saying he liked the sound but at some point he opened it up and found the speaker baskets were of a different construction to what they used to have, and he felt cheated because he felt they were using cheaper materials and construction. There was nothing I recall about the speaker sounding bad.

[la bam]

I had an Indonesian cab - very good. I'm guessing, but I seem to remember they did change the speakers to their own model. Either way they were very good.

Also had a markbass lm3 and evo 1. Again very good.

Customer service though was terrible. Simply did not reply to any emails, facebook messages or other attempts. Ever. So I wont spend any more money on them again I'm afraid. If anything breaks or goes faulty you have little chance of repair.

Edited May 25, 2020 by la bam

[fretmeister]

I’ve had 2 Italian heads and 1 Indonesian.

1 Italian head failed. The others were fine, including the Indonesian one I still have.

[machinehead]

1 hour ago, fretmeister said:

I’ve had 2 Italian heads and 1 Indonesian.

1 Italian head failed. The others were fine, including the Indonesian one I still have.

I had an Italian Markbass head fail. The repair was going to be so expensive that I decided to scrap the amp and buy a replacement from a different manufacturer.

Frank.

[Nebadon2000]

4 hours ago, mcnach said:

 

Not the one I saw. He started by saying he liked the sound but at some point he opened it up and found the speaker baskets were of a different construction to what they used to have, and he felt cheated because he felt they were using cheaper materials and construction. There was nothing I recall about the speaker sounding bad.

 

Both these post are from; DDEZ on Talkbass and another where he post pictures of new and old. https://www.talkbass.com/threads/nad-markbass-cmd-121p.1347948/#post-21688616

I played a friends Italian CMD121P MarkBass then ordered a new one on line from MF. It was advertised having a B&C speaker which was not true as MarkBass stopped putting them in their amps over 3 years ago. I got my new amp that I paid far more for than most 1-12 combo amps and discovered the speaker would fart out and distort at fairly low volumes. Eventually the only service center for MarkBass told me the speaker had been downgraded from the awesome B&C to the new MarkBass Yellow Line speaker which still had a yellow cone but no balls and I could not get a decent replacement speaker from them. I sold this piece of crap months later at a very huge financial loss and still feel guilty for selling it to someone else.

 

If you look close at the frame of the new speaker and the B&C 10CLA64, you will see the shape of the stamped frame is different. All I know is I spent a lot of money on a product and the manufacturer was of no help with doing anything about the lousy speaker that distorted and farted out badly even at rehearsal volume which is low . I will never buy another amp from a company that discontinued local warranty service so you have to ship it across the USA to get warranty service. I lost a crap load of money selling it used.

 

 

[yorks5stringer]

13 hours ago, la bam said:

I had an Indonesian cab - very good. I'm guessing, but I seem to remember they did change the speakers to their own model. Either way they were very good.

Also had a markbass lm3 and evo 1. Again very good.

Customer service though was terrible. Simply did not reply to any emails, facebook messages or other attempts. Ever. So I wont spend any more money on them again I'm afraid. If anything breaks or goes faulty you have little chance of repair.

MSL who import Markbass to the UK have a presence on Basschat in that they recently offered strings and a load of deals on demo gear too. 'Mojoke' a mod also does some work with them too....I'm surprised if you contacted either of them that 'they simply would not reply to your issues' Obviously if you went to Markbass direct in Italy your experience may have been different. I've had limited bad issues with all my Markbass gear over the years but a handle on an 801 combo was replaced with no fuss.

Not sure dragging up Talkbass quotes from 3 years is an accurate reflection of where they are currently (and the Italian/Indo comparison has been done to death)... all companies have a failure rate but I'm sure I've read somewhere there's is one of the lowest in the business for a mass market manufacturer.

Regarding head failures, I believe that due to the Class D circuitry, repairs are expensive in that there is no cheap provision to replace major components, but this is no different to  Class D heads from other manufacturers.

 

P.S. I was startled to see my post from 3 years ago in this thread!

Edited May 26, 2020 by yorks5stringer

[la bam]

Yes, I tried via markbass own website and private messaged their own facebook page and posted on their page too.

If they now have a distributor who you can deal with direct, they really need to get word out there. Such a shame as they're great products.