GAS & poverty. What a crock of ****

[FarFromTheTrees]

[quote name='la bam' timestamp='1498569900' post='3325586']
I used to think a better bass and amp would give me the great tone i was after.

Truth is - it doesnt.

A bigger understanding of eq did more for my sound than anything and cost £0.
[/quote]

EQ has a lot to be said for it of course. "Better bass and amp" is perhaps the wrong wording, "better" is kind of a subjective term anyway. The "right bass and amp" is probably a better way to describe it. If I want the tone produced by a Spector with a HH config, then that's what i'm going to have to get. I could try and emulate that with cheaper gear of course, but for me i'd rather have the real deal if possible.

Different woods, body shapes, electronics, pickup configs and quality of build produce different tones and voices. If they didnt, well...there wouldnt be so many different options of bass available right?

[mcnach]

[quote name='FarFromTheTrees' timestamp='1498509695' post='3325167']
I'm sure i'm not the only person on these forums who lives a somewhat financially restricted lifestyle. I'm sure i'm also not the only one amongst us monetarily challenged folks who battles with GAS on an almost daily basis. I dont want much in the way of a Bass...not really. A new Spector Euro LX or Rebop 5 (Cant decide) and a good model used amp and cab combo (markbass or GK) would probably do me for the rest of my days (happily I have all the pedals I need for the foreseeable future). There's no denying how much good quality instruments can improve not only our playing, but our overall sense of musicianship as a whole which in turn helps us to enjoy playing our music a whole lot more. As it is i'm currently stuck with an old Cort and a failing 400w line6 combo & i'm almost certain that having substandard equipment is holding me back somewhat in terms of musical progression and creative expression.

I work full time at a minimum wage job and saving anything after paying all my bills etc is such a struggle. I try my hardest to save but inevitably something comes along which eats into any money I have saved. I go to a lot of small gigs and my mind boggles when I see everyday folks playing relatively high-end instruments. I dont feel envious however, if anything I feel respect for the effort these musicians have likely had to put in to pay for their highly prized gear.

I've had enough of minimum wage jobs, of not being able to save anything remotely substantial and I've especially had enough of low-end gear so in light of that I'm trying to start my own business. I dont know if my business will work, or even if i'll get it off the ground but I pray to the old gods and the new that it will work.

In the mean time i'll keep trying to save for that Spector and amp combo I desire. It may take me several years but i'm confident that i'll get there. I'm not so certain why I felt compelled to post this. I guess we all feel the pinch now and then. I see some outstanding high-end instruments being sold with incredible reluctance on the classifieds sometimes; "I dont want to sell it but my situation dictates that I must". I imagine that must be as tough as it gets, to finally own a dream bass and later, be forced to sell it on.

To anyone else struggling with old, beat-up, cheap and unwieldy gear which sounds nothing like the tone you imagine in your head. Hang on in there, you're not the only one.
[/quote]


I'm not sure that your gear is holding you back... but I can sympathyse with the feeling. There were days when I felt the same way, years ago. Then things got better and I found that nicer instruments are nicer indeed but they did little to my ability to play music: I did not get better, nor I felt I wanted to play more or anything. Of course I like nice gear if I can get it... but these days we are fortunate in that we don't *need* to spend a lot of money to buy decent equipment. I know that if I spend more than £300 in a bass is because I choose to, not because I have to, and one of my favourite basses is a Squier Jazz I bought for £75, a little beat up, into which I put a new set of pickups and an unnecessary (but I like it a lot) J-Retro preamp. If that were my only bass, it would not affect my ability to play in any band or anything.
With amplifiers and cabs... You can get a Peavey 410 for under £100 (mine cost me £70 and was ugly but did a very good job), and my first bass head was a Behringer BX4500H that cost me peanuts and didn't sound bad at all... My current gear sounds better, and is very portable etc etc, but there is enough cheaper gear out there that works well, and if I could not afford what I use now, I'd happily use that. Of course, I had to use better gear to realise that my lowly equipment wasn't as bad as I was making it to be...
And that's the thing, I think: it's easy to fool ourselves into thinking that throwing money at something will make us happier and better... and to some extent it may make us happier, but it won't be a significant change in any way. So, I'd aim to use nicer/better gear, but I would not get too worried about it or compromise my budget for other interesting things in life just to buy a new bass or amp.

[mcnach]

[quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1498516131' post='3325247']
It's a thing.

There's no real link to either your musicianship, or how far musically the stuff you have now can take you.

A new bass will not make you a better player, it will not teach you scales, it will not understand melody better, it will not groove better, it will not make your band better, it will not make the drummer play in time, it will not make you more attractive.
It's not really holding you back. Unless you let it.

And if you form a band, normally you're playing crappy wee venues, with poor acoutics, and bad sound people, and a guitarist who can't turn down ever - and in the mix the difference between what you have now, and a squier or spector or a fedora are negligible, in that mix. And the drummer still can't play in time.

Form a band, play some gigs, put on your own gigs, make your own wee scene, DIY recordings, fun an attitude, practice, practice some more, and some more, play more gigs, suddenly you've got a bit of a buzz going locally about what you're doing. And it's good, and it's fun, and it's enjoyable and you're playing better and making more good music... and well that old Cort is still going strong. Cos apart from internet forums I don't think music is really that much about the instrument.
[/quote]


Well put.

And good point about the sound on most small gigs... I've sometimes wondered why on earth I paid $$$ if I was going to end up sounding like a muddy mound of crap anyway Fortunately I don't play many such gigs anymore, but they are there still!

[Dad3353]

A few years ago we had Maceo Parker on the bill of our local summer festival, Les 3 Elephants. His bassist, Rodney (Skeet...) Curtis asked if we could find him a bass; his Lakland had a fault. We lent him our Cort fiver (the least expensive in the range at the time...), he strung it up with his own strings and did the sound check. That evening, he played the show with it, and, guess what..? It sounded like 'Skeet' Curtis behind Maceo Parker..! He handed it back after the show with a smile, and even kindly signed the back of it (it's since worn off, though...). A very nice fellow, and a great player.
The moral of the story..? It's true; it's all in the fingers..!

[Monkey Steve]

clearly an amp that doesn't work properly is an issue, but +1 for all the suggestions about eq.

Rather than focusing on what you can't afford, how about focusing on what you can do? If the amp really is a big problem then Subaudio's suggestion of DIing might be the way to go, at least until you can get a better rig. If the amp makes a noise, just not a good noise, then maybe a cheap eq pedal can help, or upgrading the pickups, etc,

In my own case (and sorry to bring a guitar story to a bass forum *hangs head in shame*) I really wanted a Mesa Boogie for a band I was playing guitar in but couldn't get anywhere near affording one and was stuck with an old Marshall from the '70's. Lovely amp in many ways, but control over the eq was not a strong point. But what i could afford was a SansAmp that did a really quite good Mesa Boogie impression and that did me for some years. When i could eventually upgrade to a Boogie the difference was really noticeable to me...but not to the rest of the band and the crowd never seemed to notice.

get creative with what you can do to fix things, until you can afford the gear you really want.

[Monkey Steve]

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1498572812' post='3325610'] It's true; it's all in the fingers..! [/quote]

The drummer from the band i was playing guitar in that I refer to above was also the drummer in a later band i was playing bass in, and one day at rehearsal when the guitarist had gone out for a smoke I picked up his guitar and ran through some of the old songs. the drummer says to me "it's true what they say about the sound being in the fingers, you sound exactly the same on that set up as you did in the old band".

This was not meant as a compliment.

[FarFromTheTrees]

[quote name='subaudio' timestamp='1498570717' post='3325593']
Do you have a pa where you practice, do you use it for gigs?
You could maybe sell your amp and buy a sansamp or similar and go straight into the pa if its more than just a vocal pa?
[/quote]

We dont, no. But we haven't started gigging yet either. We dont even know if we're going to gig. At the minute we just play music together for the sheer enjoyment of it. The band doesnt even have a name. At the moment though, gigging isn't high on our agenda.

I actually have a Darkglass B7K on my pedalboard (a gift which done INCREDIBLE things for my tone) so going direct into a PA is always an option if a PA becomes available.

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1498572412' post='3325606']
And that's the thing, I think: it's easy to fool ourselves into thinking that throwing money at something will make us happier and better... and to some extent it may make us happier, but it won't be a significant change in any way. So, I'd aim to use nicer/better gear, but I would not get too worried about it or compromise my budget for other interesting things in life just to buy a new bass or amp.
[/quote]

When I first decided to start learning the bass 3 years ago, I was hearing a sound from certain bands I was listening to which made me think "I want to make music/sounds like that" and 3 years down the line, although I am getting better all the time, I still am not near "that" sound, and that is pretty much due to my gear. I think there comes a time when you are improving on an instrument that you want the gear to match your increasing ability to use it and to be able to reproduce the sounds and music we have inside our heads. A bass is a tool to do a job at the end of the day and you need the right tool for the right job. I have a Tool which does the job, but not how I want it to be done. I may stumble upon a cheaper bass which has that sound i'm looking for while i'm saving, and if I do that would be great, but ive not found it yet. I still do have a desire to own a quality instrument though. I live a pretty frugal and minimal life. I dont actually own a lot of things and the few quality things I do own, all serve a purpose. Like many, I would see a quality instrument as an investment, not just within the instrument itself, but also in myself.

[quote name='Monkey Steve' timestamp='1498575162' post='3325626']

clearly an amp that doesn't work properly is an issue, but +1 for all the suggestions about eq.

Rather than focusing on what you can't afford, how about focusing on what you can do? If the amp really is a big problem then Subaudio's suggestion of DIing might be the way to go, at least until you can get a better rig. If the amp makes a noise, just not a good noise, then maybe a cheap eq pedal can help, or upgrading the pickups, etc,

In my own case (and sorry to bring a guitar story to a bass forum *hangs head in shame*) I really wanted a Mesa Boogie for a band I was playing guitar in but couldn't get anywhere near affording one and was stuck with an old Marshall from the '70's. Lovely amp in many ways, but control over the eq was not a strong point. But what i could afford was a SansAmp that did a really quite good Mesa Boogie impression and that did me for some years. When i could eventually upgrade to a Boogie the difference was really noticeable to me...but not to the rest of the band and the crowd never seemed to notice.

get creative with what you can do to fix things, until you can afford the gear you really want.
[/quote]

I looked into upgrading the pickups in my cort, other pedals I could try and use to get that tone I want etc.....and it all just seems like a waste of time and money. Money I could better save towards getting the rig I know will give me that sound I want, rather than screwing around with a substandard set up which i'm not entirely happy with.

I wouldnt much care if the band/crowd didnt hear a difference if I got a new rig. All that matters to me is that if I myself can hear it

[Steve Browning]

May I ask what kind of sound you are after? Could it be achievable with a change of strings (do you use rounds but your ideal sound is made using flats?). Maybe the wealth of knowledge here can guide you more specifically.

I understand what you mean about 'better' gear. I think most of that is in the mind rather than actual. I remember feeling really cool when I bought my first Fender but I don't think I actually played any better.

[FarFromTheTrees]

[quote name='Steve Browning' timestamp='1498581311' post='3325684']
May I ask what kind of sound you are after? Could it be achievable with a change of strings (do you use rounds but your ideal sound is made using flats?). Maybe the wealth of knowledge here can guide you more specifically.

I understand what you mean about 'better' gear. I think most of that is in the mind rather than actual. I remember feeling really cool when I bought my first Fender but I don't think I actually played any better.
[/quote]

When I say play "better" I mean by if you have the instrument that you want and that produces the sound you desire, you're going to feel more inspired and connected to it and the music. At least that's how I feel about it. I played some of my bands basslines on the Rebop/Markbass I got to try and it sounded phenomenal, simply worlds better than my own bass.

What sound am I after...well thats a tough question really. Ultimately somewhere between Spector EuroLX/Rebop/Stingray HH/Wal territory. I absolutely love the tonal capabilities of these instruments. A Wal Mk 3 is the ultimate though way out of my price range so thats never going to happen. Stingray HH is quite pricy too but i'm not so much a fan of the styling either. The Rebop/EuroLX I love the tone of both, the NS syle is great and the price isnt out of the ballpark either....so thats why i'm going spector...or at least trying.

[LukeFRC]

[quote name='FarFromTheTrees' timestamp='1498580256' post='3325674']
We dont, no. But we haven't started gigging yet either. We dont even know if we're going to gig. At the minute we just play music together for the sheer enjoyment of it. The band doesnt even have a name. At the moment though, gigging isn't high on our agenda.
[/quote]
Make it! It heightens the enjoyment as much as new gear. More actually.
[quote name='FarFromTheTrees' timestamp='1498584050' post='3325705']
What sound am I after...well thats a tough question really. Ultimately somewhere between Spector EuroLX/Rebop/Stingray HH/Wal territory. I absolutely love the tonal capabilities of these instruments. A Wal Mk 3 is the ultimate though way out of my price range so thats never going to happen. Stingray HH is quite pricy too but i'm not so much a fan of the styling either. The Rebop/EuroLX I love the tone of both, the NS syle is great and the price isnt out of the ballpark either....so thats why i'm going spector...or at least trying.
[/quote] Two thoughts - I know it's not exactly a Spector - but secondhand Warwick go for silly low money and kinda borrowed/stole that NS style. Different eras are different so ask for advice - but more affordable than Spector. Streamer LX or $$ would do you?
Also - unless you're loaded enjoy saving up - unless your income depends on it I would advise against any kinda loan or interest free setup. I worked my asre off over a summer as a student to afford my first Precision bass and then played that loads. Later I realised if I sold my starter bass and saved up (minimum wage in a cafe about 10 years back, earning about £8k p.a. in expensive edinburgh) I could just about buy the blue Warwick that Warwickhunt was selling on Basschat.... amazing

[Twincam]

In regards to instrument capability. You should buy an instrument your ergonomically comfortable with.
That will make you a better player and for the most part its playing ability that will make you sound good. And so will a bass set up correctly for you.
I think tonal abilities etc is slightly overhyped. I've seen/heard many players sound exactly the same with different basses. Obviously that's not in every circumstance and some basses do sound different to others but its a small part of the package. I do feel though its the player that makes the difference.
I also feel you shouldn't need good equipment to feel inspired and it should be for the love of playing.
Personally if I someone really playing the sh*t out of something cheap I get a big kick out of it.

In my own experience I've had a few instruments worth much much more than my current ibanez sr500 and they didn't make me play any better. In fact having a nicer instrument made me feel uncomfortable for my level of playing and had the oppisate effect.

Amp wise I do feel getting something you like the tone of and is capable of delivering suitable volume for your needs will help you sound better, but it won't make you play better.

I do sympathise with the gas and poverty thing I'm there myself. Although happy with my bass as said before its ergonomically the best suited for me. But my amplification gas is unreal! but all the stuff I want is currently out of my price league. Thankfully I'm not gigging and a decent practice amp suitable for jamming does me. But oddly that still doesn't stop me wanting something much better.

Edited June 27, 2017 by Twincam

[AndyTravis]

A good few years ago, I had about 15 basses, and a lovely SWR rig.

Circumstances changed (separation) and I had to sell pretty much all of it. I was in a touring band at the time.

Took me 6 years to get back to 5 basses. And now I'm playing less and less, it makes no sense.

I debate what I'm doing all the time, whether or not I'm making enough effort, why I've got £500 worth of pedals I don't use and a 800w bass rig...I've got two basses worth £3k/£3.5k between them...and I don't play them.

The grass is greener somewhere, but I'm in a "life's getting in the way" period at the minute.

I love my wife and kids dearly and to keep them safe, fed and happy is my current priority.

8 years ago, my priority was getting smashed in the back of a transit while getting to a gig I'd get a few quid for, making videos and recording albums 150 people would buy.

I miss elements of it.

I'd saved £3000 to buy a Wal.

I decided to take the kids to Disneyland instead this summer.

Some stuff matters, and some stuff can wait.

I'm about to change jobs and my wife and I need to get a second car should I move (we've worked together for three years so dropped to one car...) and that's the bass pot gone for the foreseeable.

Enjoy what you have, there are people with less.

If you're near me (Manchester) I'll happily tweak your bass and see what I have in the strings/parts bin to help you. For nowt.

Don't stress, enjoy it. I wish there was a spare hour a day to play.

I'm going to use my birthday present headphones now because I am kicking myself for not playing.

My birthday was the 1st June, and I have plugged these headphones in once.

Get busy living mate.

[timmo]

You need to be wary of most people with really nice gear. I always wondered years a go how people in my factory drove new BMW's until i heard of PCP. Obviously not all, but there will be a few with nice gear with maxxed credit cards.

[Dan Dare]

[quote name='timmo' timestamp='1498593391' post='3325787']
You need to be wary of most people with really nice gear. I always wondered years a go how people in my factory drove new BMW's until i heard of PCP. Obviously not all, but there will be a few with nice gear with maxxed credit cards.
[/quote]

Some of us are just ancient and as a result, have accumulated decent stuff over the years. You start with a cheap instrument and amp, sell it when you outgrow it, add a little money and get something a bit better and so on. Repeat a few (quite a few) times and you have your so-called "dream rig". All it takes is time.

[bazzbass]

For some people their perceived lack of the right gear is an excuse for poor technique.

NOT saying this is true in your case.

I think you need to set your amp as flat as possible and slowly EQ it till you are close to 'your tone'.

Maybe try an EQ pedal or pre amp, that helped me find the right sound I wanted.

[Steve Browning]

I get the impression that the amp is unreliable rather than it just being the settings used. There is mention of a known issue with the eq somewhere back in the thread.

I don't know which Cort you have but they mostly seem to be actives with twin humbuckers, much like the basses you want so I think I would be tempted to concentrate on getting your amp sorted so have something which is consistent and reliable. Maybe an investment in a good set up.

[cheddatom]

[quote name='AndyTravis' timestamp='1498593128' post='3325785']
...Get busy living mate.
[/quote]
Great post!

[Trueno]

[quote name='cheddatom' timestamp='1498636642' post='3325967']

Great post!
[/quote]

+1
A trip to Disneyland with the family will stay in your head for the rest of your life.

For the OP... I totally respect your wish to get better gear.. it's pretty standard for many on this forum. I hope your business takes off and you get to buy the gear you want. I know some people say it won't make you play any better... mine certainly doesn't... but that's for you to find out (if applicable) and have fun trying!