Delberthot Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 i have always used solid state bass amps. the only exception being my Hartke HA5500 and Ashdown EVO 500 RC which had a valve in the preamp. I have only recently developed an interest in valve amps and have heard very conflicting stories about them. I don't mind the changing of the valves and looking after them carefully to prolong the life of the valves. The eight doesn't bother me either - i want to tell you all what I have and what I sound like and let you advise me if you think I would benefit from a valve amp rather than going out and spending a grand on one to discover its not for me. My 2 basses are both Warmoth '54 P basses - One is soon to have a bartolini active 2 band EQ installed and the other is an accurate reproduction of an original '56 P bass. I play these into a Gallien Krueger 700RB II and Schroeder 1212L via a Boss GT6-B. I play fingerstyle where the pickup would be on a Stingray due to years of playing Stingrays and use a lot of staccato notes. I like a punchy, well defined sound and like to play relatively fast. I very rarely use a pick or slap. the valve amp would be mainly used with the '56 bass. This one has a fatter tone which sounds really good but I feel that it needs something more with a touch of growly overdrive to finish the sound off. What i am looking for is to keep the punchy, well defined sound that will cut through but I want something dirty to add a bit of grind to my sound and most valve amps seem to be able to offer that rather than go for a processed effect from the GT6-B which would be good but never as good as natural distortion from a valve amp. Or would I be wasting my time with something that won't get me a better sound than I already have? Any help or advise would be appreciated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwi Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 Get one. Especially for a P-bass. Modern valve amps are very rugged and durable if they're properly cooled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stylon Pilson Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 At the vast majority of gigs, the only person who would be able to tell the difference between valve amp distortion and a processor distortion would be you. S.P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tempo Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 If your after valve power stage grind, then your gonna have to be turning up pretty loud to get it, which may or may not ruin the mix of the band. If your looking for some dirt from the preamp, then you might as well use an outboard pre/drive unit with your current gear. Do you use a PA for bass in the majority of your gigs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dood Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 [quote name='Stylon Pilson' post='318885' date='Oct 31 2008, 11:06 AM']At the vast majority of gigs, the only person who would be able to tell the difference between valve amp distortion and a processor distortion would be you. S.P.[/quote] With technology being such these days, I have to agree. I always found that valve amps 'feel' different to play through though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adee Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 [quote name='Stylon Pilson' post='318885' date='Oct 31 2008, 11:06 AM']At the vast majority of gigs, the only person who would be able to tell the difference between valve amp distortion and a processor distortion would be you. S.P.[/quote] Well thats not very helpful is it ! If we all took that view then I'm sure we would all gig with a Stagg Bass and Amp and not spend thousands on Fender, Rickenbacker, Ampeg etc As long as you are happy lugging the extra weight and the maintenance then go for it ! I've had many a comment on my tone and I just play covers in pubs ! So striving for you sound it not all in vain I assure you. Go for it ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ped Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 The idea that valve amps are maintenance heavy is a misnomer. There is far less to go wrong and if looked after (and usually if not looked after) they will be reliable and solid for years and years. The main consideration is the weight and you say you don't mind - I say go for it. Every bassist needs to have owned a valve amp for a little while! ped Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stylon Pilson Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 [quote name='Adee' post='318918' date='Oct 31 2008, 11:39 AM']Well thats not very helpful is it ! If we all took that view then I'm sure we would all gig with a Stagg Bass and Amp and not spend thousands on Fender, Rickenbacker, Ampeg etc[/quote] To an extent. The audience wouldn't be able to hear the difference, but if you have good quality gear then it is easier to use. You're relaxed and you are enjoying yourself, and that affects the way that you sound. S.P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dood Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 [quote name='Adee' post='318918' date='Oct 31 2008, 11:39 AM']Well thats not very helpful is it ! If we all took that view then I'm sure we would all gig with a Stagg Bass and Amp and not spend thousands on Fender, Rickenbacker, Ampeg etc As long as you are happy lugging the extra weight and the maintenance then go for it ! I've had many a comment on my tone and I just play covers in pubs ! So striving for you sound it not all in vain I assure you. Go for it ![/quote] I guess it isn't helpful, although I do agree with it now. I unfortunately have spent far too much money to come to that conclusion, including a whole stack of valve preamps and a very nice Ampeg SVT 2 Pro. - I guess, if you discount ALL the other differences between solid state and valve.. *and* it's the tone that you love Del', that wins you over, thaen yes, go for it! My take on valves now, is that I feel valves are maybe dipped in Snake Oil to make them sound better than solidstate ;o) - just an opinion, a preference I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bremen Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 [quote name='ped' post='318921' date='Oct 31 2008, 11:43 AM']Every bassist needs to have owned a valve amp for a little while![/quote] Just for a little while? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ped Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 Well until you go to hospital with a prolapsed disk at least! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 [quote name='dood' post='318916' date='Oct 31 2008, 11:37 AM']With technology being such these days, I have to agree. I always found that valve amps 'feel' different to play through though.[/quote] [quote name='ped' post='318921' date='Oct 31 2008, 11:43 AM']The idea that valve amps are maintenance heavy is a misnomer.[/quote] Ditto, ditto. Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Burpster Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 [quote name='Delberthot' post='318877' date='Oct 31 2008, 10:55 AM']Or would I be wasting my time with something that won't get me a better sound than I already have?[/quote] Only you know the answer to this question and FWIW I would add this little bit, a chunk of your decision making should revolve around the sound you want to produce. As has been pointed out above you CAN replicate a good facsimilie of a valve sound with solid state, but somehow its just not the same......it doesn't feel the same and doesn't sound the same. In a preverse way, with valves you become attached to playing to get the best tone from your set up (bass and amp), well I have anyway. You need to try one or two to see what is meant, but dont get one for the sake of it.... Me? I use a hybrid (Mesa walkabout) so, valve pre-stage through MOSFET power stage. I love it....... That being said my guitarist plays thru a 30yr old pure valve amp, so maybe I've just got used to it or am brainwashed..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delberthot Posted October 31, 2008 Author Share Posted October 31, 2008 wow, i didn't expect so many responses while i was away. The valve amp, should i get one, would be used with my pub covers band so no PA. i realise that valve amps are reliable, just that you have to look after them in the sense of not bumping or dropping them, letting the valves heat up / cool down properly. Solid state, you switch on and away you go. I don't have a problem with looking after a valve amp in that sense. i think i would really need to try one in a gig situation but don't know anyone around my way who has one, let alone allowing me to borrow it. I may have the only GK head in Central Scotland, 99% sure the only Schroeder cab. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lozbass Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 (edited) I certainly wouldn't want to discourage you but there are a lot of valve amps with different sounds/inherent tonal characteristics. A hybrid might be a good idea (as suggested earlier). If you have a chance, try as many examples as possible (in shops, rehearsal rooms and at gigs if you can - I realise this might not be easy, but it's probably worth travelling if you're to avoid wasting money on a sub-optimal solution). You might be surprised at the variation, and at differeng abilities to cut through in gig situations. Some valve amps don't really add a lot of grit, just warmth. Edited October 31, 2008 by lozbass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ezbass Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 [quote name='Delberthot' post='318877' date='Oct 31 2008, 10:55 AM']Talk me out of getting a valve amp[/quote] Don't buy a valve amp! See that was easy. Oh you want suggestions, sorry my bad. Get a Tech21 VT pedal and stick it in front of your current head. [url="http://www.tech21nyc.com/character_series.html"]http://www.tech21nyc.com/character_series.html[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 I love valve amps. But one downside is the cost of replacing power tubes...some valve amps run as many as 6 or 8, which is expensive at circa £20 each. OTOH, if the amp's looked after, the tubes could last a good long while - depends how often you gig. At the risk of sounding desperately pose-y, the valve thing is something you 'feel' more than you hear. Kinda like the difference between CD's and Vinyl - just like a little extra indefinable 'something'. But it does make you feel good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delberthot Posted November 1, 2008 Author Share Posted November 1, 2008 Looking closely at the manual for my Boss GT6-B, it has several preamp settings including Ampeg flip top & SVT and Fender Bassman. Think I'll give these a go to and see how i get on. I can't afford a new amp just now anyway so may as well experiment with what I have. I've been trying to find a couple of online articles i read recently - one is something along the lines of the myth of tube amps and the other is an interview with this guy who apparently knows everything about tubes. Can't remember if I read them here or on Talkbs Thanks for all the help and advice. I've not made up my mind whether or not to go down the valve route but at least this gives me something to think about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bass_ferret Posted November 1, 2008 Share Posted November 1, 2008 Your boss is going to sound sh*t compared to proper individual effects just because of economics - a multi effect for the price of one good pedal is not gonna sound as good. My advice would be to try a proper valve preamp like a DHA or EBS Valvetone and I am sure the valve nerds can suggest others (including multi effects with valves - Digitech used to do one IIRC). They are a lot easier to post on than an SVT if you decide you dont like it. They do work better with some amps and I dont know where the GK sits on this spectrum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delberthot Posted November 1, 2008 Author Share Posted November 1, 2008 What if the 'sh*t' sound I get from my Boss turns out to be what I'm after? Thouoght about that? I'm sorry but I don't like being told my equipment is sh*t. I initially thought you were young due to the lack of subtlety in your post but you are clearly old enough to know better. this thread was started because i thought that a valve amp might be what my sound needed and i merely pointed out that i am still unsure as to what to do after the (mostly) helpful advice. In the meantime i was going to try and play about with the settings on my effects to see if that helps until such time as i get to borrow a valve amp for a gig or at least get to try one in a shop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bass_ferret Posted November 1, 2008 Share Posted November 1, 2008 [quote name='Delberthot' post='319508' date='Nov 1 2008, 10:33 AM']What if the 'sh*t' sound I get from my Boss turns out to be what I'm after? Thouoght about that? I'm sorry but I don't like being told my equipment is sh*t. I initially thought you were young due to the lack of subtlety in your post but you are clearly old enough to know better.[/quote] Didn't say it was sh1t I said it was sh1t compared to individual pedals, and the overdrive on your £200 multi-effects is not going to sound as good as a £200 dedicated valve overdrive, no matter how clever the modelling. If it was Ampeg would be out of business. Though I was stating the obvious really. Up to you cos I frankly could not give a toss what you do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
umph Posted November 1, 2008 Share Posted November 1, 2008 [quote name='bass_ferret' post='319515' date='Nov 1 2008, 10:49 AM']Didn't say it was sh1t I said it was sh1t compared to individual pedals, and the overdrive on your £200 multi-effects is not going to sound as good as a £200 dedicated valve overdrive, no matter how clever the modelling. If it was Ampeg would be out of business. Though I was stating the obvious really. Up to you cos I frankly could not give a toss what you do.[/quote] price doesn't always mean its better alot of its down to personal preference. To be honest i think people in the crowd don't notice so much if you have good tone as thats what there used to hearing on records but if you have terrible tone people tend to whince etc. not saying you have bad tone though. i'd advise getting a valve amp though i got one and i'm never going back to solid state! i've found where all my bottom ends been hiding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ped Posted November 1, 2008 Share Posted November 1, 2008 Ignore Bass Ferret. At this rate he won't be here much longer (Just upped your warning level again Ferret) Cheers ped Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bass_ferret Posted November 1, 2008 Share Posted November 1, 2008 Thanks Ped! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted November 1, 2008 Share Posted November 1, 2008 Easy answer. F** the valve amp idea & get something like a Markbass or GenzBenz amp & then get a valve compressor pedal. Light, more reliable & more durable. Although I would have a shot of some valve stuff as it does have a nice warm tone & try & compare. Horses for courses stuff OK, not such an easy answer, :brow: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.