bass_ferret Posted November 2, 2008 Share Posted November 2, 2008 [quote name='xgsjx' post='319864' date='Nov 1 2008, 10:25 PM']Easy answer. F** the valve amp idea & get something like a Markbass or GenzBenz amp & then get a valve compressor pedal. Light, more reliable & more durable. Although I would have a shot of some valve stuff as it does have a nice warm tone & try & compare. Horses for courses stuff OK, not such an easy answer, :brow:[/quote] Dont use bad language,you will get a warning Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ped Posted November 2, 2008 Share Posted November 2, 2008 The filter takes care of bad language, but unfortunately I can't filter everything. IMHO the real beauty of a valve sound comes from the power amp. I haven't played a valve loaded hybrid amplifier that felt or sounded much like a valve amp, for better or worse. It is also true that not all valve amps sound alike any more than solid state or hybrid designs. The Trace V4 I had sounded beautifully creamy and clean, not a hint of breakup or distortion anywhere, which was great. Sometimes people assume valve amps = distortion and a shortcut to the 'valve sound' is a hairy distortion pedal, valve or otherwise, into a solid state poweramp... but I think this misses the most critical part of the recipe out. Again all in my experience etc. I have never been happier with [i]my[/i] sound and it is all digital now - so whatever works! ped Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bass_ferret Posted November 2, 2008 Share Posted November 2, 2008 I agree with you - there is no substitute for a proper valve amp. The problem comes with the practicalities, even more so if you dont live in or near a major city where such things are readily available to try, hire and buy. And in a gigging situation who will notice the difference. My old EBS gear sounded better at home than my Genz Benz, but when I am playing with the rest of the band the difference is inaudiable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ped Posted November 2, 2008 Share Posted November 2, 2008 Yeah - the only way to know is to try. Therefore, to the original poster, and back to my earlier comment: Get one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bass_ferret Posted November 2, 2008 Share Posted November 2, 2008 Practicalities! The OP lives in Falkirk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ped Posted November 2, 2008 Share Posted November 2, 2008 Hmm. Maybe get one from Norway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
molan Posted November 2, 2008 Share Posted November 2, 2008 I have to admit that I never really thought the whole 'valve' vintage tone thing was that inspiring - after all, I've pretty much always owned pretty modern basses & embraced headless & graphite necks very early on. And then I 'inherited' an SVTII (non-pro) in a deal that went slightly awry. I was totally convinced that I'd hate it & it would be a gnarly old beast with only one sound. Much to my astonishment it's much more flexible than I thought & love the pure clean sound! Having said that I'm also using a Genz Shuttle at the moment &, although I'm damned if I can really hear much difference with the valve pre option, I really like this as well. haven't had time to A/B them yet but may get a chance next weekend. My head is quietly hoping the baby Shuttle will win out but I ahve to say my heart is with the Ampeg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bass_ferret Posted November 2, 2008 Share Posted November 2, 2008 Difference to what with the valve pre on the Shuttle? You cant turn it off but you do have the flexibility to send little or all of your signal through it. I find mine is really responsive and if you set it up on the cusp, just digging in a little more can really change the dynamics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
umph Posted November 2, 2008 Share Posted November 2, 2008 [quote name='ped' post='319907' date='Nov 2 2008, 12:22 AM']The filter takes care of bad language, but unfortunately I can't filter everything. IMHO the real beauty of a valve sound comes from the power amp. I haven't played a valve loaded hybrid amplifier that felt or sounded much like a valve amp, for better or worse. It is also true that not all valve amps sound alike any more than solid state or hybrid designs. The Trace V4 I had sounded beautifully creamy and clean, not a hint of breakup or distortion anywhere, which was great. Sometimes people assume valve amps = distortion and a shortcut to the 'valve sound' is a hairy distortion pedal, valve or otherwise, into a solid state poweramp... but I think this misses the most critical part of the recipe out. Again all in my experience etc. I have never been happier with [i]my[/i] sound and it is all digital now - so whatever works! ped[/quote] imo it comes from the combination of a valve pre amd power amp, most amps with a "valve pre" still have alot of solid state stuff in the signal path. I think anything else i say about valves is going to be buyist because after my experiences with building and modding, Valves are so much simpler / easier to fix and sound so much better even when you accidentally overdrive them to much Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Telebass Posted November 2, 2008 Share Posted November 2, 2008 [quote name='umph' post='320360' date='Nov 2 2008, 06:52 PM']imo it comes from the combination of a valve pre amd power amp, most amps with a "valve pre" still have alot of solid state stuff in the signal path. I think anything else i say about valves is going to be buyist because after my experiences with building and modding, Valves are so much simpler / easier to fix and sound so much better even when you accidentally overdrive them to much[/quote] Agreed, if you're going to have a valve amp, have an [i]all-valve[/i] amp. If you know electronics and are savvy with working on high-voltage circuits, AND you have the back of Hercules, go for it. It's like anything else, if you're prepared to put in the maintenance, they last forever. I would get something that's fan-cooled, or add a fan if not. It helps a great deal with the valve life, and might give you valuable seconds to switch off in the event of one tube blowing and taking others out with them. Me? Markbass. Back's far too gone for valves these days! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 2, 2008 Share Posted November 2, 2008 (edited) [quote name='xgsjx' post='319864' date='Nov 1 2008, 10:25 PM']Easy answer. F** the valve amp idea & get something like a Markbass or GenzBenz amp & then get a valve compressor pedal. Light, more reliable & more durable.[/quote] +1 I was running a GB shuttle 6 and a Electro harmonix Black finger ( valve compressor) and it was fantastic, i really rate the EH comp but only AFTER changing the valves. That said i would love a trace v6/v8 Edited November 2, 2008 by steve-norris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
umph Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 [quote name='steve-norris' post='320462' date='Nov 2 2008, 08:49 PM']+1 I was running a GB shuttle 6 and a Electro harmonix Black finger ( valve compressor) and it was fantastic, i really rate the EH comp but only AFTER changing the valves. That said i would love a trace v6/v8[/quote] buy mine so i can make my dream head Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamster Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 [quote name='umph' post='320610' date='Nov 3 2008, 12:20 AM']buy mine so i can make my dream head [/quote] I'm intrigued - what's your dream head? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 If you want punchy I don't think valve is going to be your sound. In my opinion you have a great cab, so I wouldn't change that. Markbass seem to get good reports, especially with Schroeders, and they won't break the bank. I don't think your GK is in the same league as the cab so my upgrade path would start with an LM11. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzz Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 [quote name='Telebass' post='320432' date='Nov 2 2008, 08:16 PM']Agreed, if you're going to have a valve amp, have an [i]all-valve[/i] amp.[/quote] Hmm, not quite true. I do believe there's a couple of amp manufacturers that have done slightly off the cuff methods to get a proper valve power amp stage (and the harmonics and/or overdriven sound not present in solid state amps) while not running 4/6/8 power valves, but giving you the same effect but with lower weight, smaller amp etc... DHA spring to mind, all valve pre and effects (I think), coupled to 1 (yes, one) power tube which is can be easily overdriven to the powerstage crunch and harmonics if you want, that's then reduced to line level via a dummy load (internal speaker), which is then pumped into a 400w Class D solid state power amp. That's the rough jist of it. There's at least one owned on this forum, and the DHA section contains the build thread of the prototype, iirc people who've heard it have said it sounds fantastic. I think Genz or Mesa do one with a similar method as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
umph Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 [quote name='Hamster' post='320612' date='Nov 3 2008, 12:24 AM']I'm intrigued - what's your dream head?[/quote] think i'm going to base it around a orange mkII but replace the tone stack section with an active one akin to the one in sound city 200 and give the power amp section a revamp so its running 4 kt77s and underrun them so i get around 80 very clean and loud watts that will start to overdrive nicely as i get the amp to fullish volume. Put it in a pine enclosure and it should all stay under 20kgs! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_russ Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 (edited) [quote name='umph' post='320763' date='Nov 3 2008, 10:52 AM']think i'm going to base it around a orange mkII but replace the tone stack section with an active one akin to the one in sound city 200 and give the power amp section a revamp so its running 4 kt77s and underrun them so i get around 80 very clean and loud watts that will start to overdrive nicely as i get the amp to fullish volume. Put it in a pine enclosure and it should all stay under 20kgs![/quote] That sounds nice - I'm currently really after an orange ad200b Edited November 3, 2008 by mr_russ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 [quote name='chris_b' post='320623' date='Nov 3 2008, 01:02 AM']I don't think your GK is in the same league as the cab so my upgrade path would start with an LM11.[/quote] I totally disagree, that's a great head. Way different sound to the Markbass as well. Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 [quote name='Buzz' post='320625' date='Nov 3 2008, 01:06 AM']DHA spring to mind, all valve pre and effects (I think), coupled to 1 (yes, one) power tube which is can be easily overdriven to the powerstage crunch and harmonics if you want, that's then reduced to line level via a dummy load (internal speaker), which is then pumped into a 400w Class D solid state power amp. That's the rough jist of it.[/quote] ...which is sort of what Eddie Van Halen did for his live sound: Gtr>Fx>Marshall valve amp>Dummy load>Solid state Power amps>Cabs. So perfectly legit and clearly an acceptable sound. (If you like VH) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d-basser Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 (edited) OP: I would love to try your shroeder, My Fafner has a valve pre (I knwo this isnt the same as a proper valve amp) but if you wanted I could come visit at some point or we could meet up and try the EBS shroeder combo. Your only a train journey away (if you could pick me up from the station) p.s. I could ring my dingwall and you can see the wonder of fanned frets p.p.s. just re read your post and see you have had valve pre's in the past, offer still stands though, I would love to give a 1212L a bash Edited November 3, 2008 by d-basser Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delberthot Posted November 3, 2008 Author Share Posted November 3, 2008 PM'd I'd have to say that I find my GK head far better than the Markbass stuff. I tried out one of the combos down in Promenade music in Morcambe but wasn't won over by the sound or what it could do in general. I would quite like to try out on the GK Fusion heads but don't know if anyone has these in stock yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finbar Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 d-basser - I'd love to try your Dingwall out, and let you tinker with my 1212L, but you live really far away Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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