Recommend me a book to improve my timing...

[Jamesemt]

Firstly, I can't read music and don't have the time/patience to learn at the moment.

I am looking for a book which will take me through time signatures as I play quite a few covers with my band and don't really know why the timing feels odd - other than it can't be in 4/4!!

I don't even have a basic grasp so something which starts with the real basics (maybe with a CD of examples too) would be good.

Anyone got any ideas?

[The Funk]

If you really want to develop your rhythmic understanding I'd get a drum book - but those are written in notation too.

The best rhythm book I've ever seen was this old one from the 60s or 70s which I found in my university library, took out for a year, returned and now can't remember the name of - and have't been able to locate anywhere online. It was called something like "clap your hands" and wasn't instrument specific (which is why you could play the music by clapping your hands). It was written in notation but it's actually quite easy learning how to read rhythm in notation - I learnt it just from reading that book (then got very rusty). I used to sit in law lectures tapping the desk, going through all the exercises.

The only time signatures you're likely to ever use are:
4/4, 3/4, 6/8, 5/4, 7/8 and 12/8.

I just count the Indian way though (ie. drop the 4 or 8 off the bottom and just count the number of beats, so "it's in 7" for example).

4/4 is the standard one we all know and love.
3/4 is basically a waltz or The Beatles' "[i]You've Got To Hide Your Love Away[/i]".
6/8 is a kind of bluesy, ballad thing, often with an accent on the 1 and the 4 - this can make it sound like a very slow 4/4.
5/4 is a lot like 4/4 with an extra beat added - think of the intro to Cream's "[i]White Room[/i]".
7/8 is a lot like two bars of 4/4 with one beat missing at the end (or the other way around) - think of Pink Floyd's "[i]Money[/i]".
12/8 sounds to me like a triplet on each beat of a standard 4/4 bar - think of the theme to "[i]Airwolf[/i]".

Without knowing what kind of music you listen to it's difficult to give more helpful examples.

The timing could feel wrong for other reasons too though, such as syncopation/off-beats, accents in different places (such as reggae 4/4 as opposed to 4/4 with a backbeat) or counting in half-time or double-time (ie. counting twice as fast or twice as slow).

Edited November 4, 2008 by The Funk

[bassbloke]

I find ghe best way to deal with odd meters is to break them down into simpler, regular meters

5/4 becomes a count of 2 and a count of 3
7/8 becomes a a count of 3 and 4, or 4 and 3 or even 2 and 2 and 3

It helps if you really try and pick out an obvious repetitive numerical pattern to the drums.

[Jamesemt]

Cheers guys - sorry for the belated reply. I'll have a look on amazon for a book.

[nig]

sorry to be an old grouch but, A metronome, priceless, when I was taught and when I was a teacher, that really sorts the men out from the boys, teaches you to have a subconcious meter in your head.

[jakenewmanbass]

TBH Im not quite sure what you mean by "timing" and if you mean 'time keeping' then learning about time signatures will not really help and IMO books are not the way forward.
I once heard someone describe listening to records as an elaborate metronome, playing along with great players is a sure fire way to accustom oneself to locking in with an established groove.
If you mean 'Time Keeping' let me know and I will post some suggestions for you.

also +1 to nig for the metronome, I think you can have lots of feel fun with a metronome.

Edited November 29, 2008 by jakesbass

[Jamesemt]

[quote name='jakesbass' post='340327' date='Nov 29 2008, 10:21 AM']TBH Im not quite sure what you mean by "timing" and if you mean 'time keeping' then learning about time signatures will not really help and IMO books are not the way forward.
I once heard someone describe listening to records as an elaborate metronome, playing along with great players is a sure fire way to accustom oneself to locking in with an established groove.
If you mean 'Time Keeping' let me know and I will post some suggestions for you.

also +1 to nig for the metronome, I think you can have lots of feel fun with a metronome.[/quote]

Sorry I didn't make the title overly clear.

I am wanting to improve my knowledge of time signatures (although obviously my timing needs improvement, but that will take a lot longer...).

I want to know what a 3/4 feels like for example, apart from knowing that it's 3 beats to the bar.

[jakenewmanbass]

Time signatures are easily understood if you really absorb the significance of two pieces of info:

1. The bottom number tells you what type of note the beat is
i.e minim=2, crotchet=4, quaver=8, semiquaver=16.

2. The top number tells you how many of them are in one bar.



Therefore:

2/2 means there are 2 minims in a bar (which equates to 4/4 just like a fraction) but is in a cut time (often quite fast)

4/4 means there are 4 crotchets in a bar.
3/4 means there are three crotchets in a bar
5/4 means 5 crotchets and is (obv) an odd number and may be grouped thus 123 45 as in 'take five', or 12 345

6/8 has six quavers in a bar (often in two groups of three) 123 456 123 456 etc (giving 2 pulses of 3 notes duration each)
12/8 has 12 quavers and also often groups of three
5/8 has five quavers and can be grouped with a short and a long pulse 123 45, or 12 345 in both cases the first beat of a group can be accented to give a larger grouped 'pulse' to the music.

11/16 has 11 semiquavers and can be counted in various groups
these types of time signature are found mainly in contemporary music and can be difficult to follow without full understanding. Most pop, rock, soul etc musicians will rarely encounter these as the majority of music in song form is in regular measure such as 4/4, 3/4, 6/8/,12/8.

Time signatures that have groups within (as above) are called compound time signatures because the groups of notes often add together to make a larger group pulse so you can feel a two pulse in 6/8 created by an accent (stronger) on the first note of each group.



This is all off the top of my head and very much in brief, if you want further explanantion I would be happy to give examples of specifics here or by PM.

Jake

Edited December 1, 2008 by jakesbass