Fretted to fretless

[jazzyvee]

Currently I only gig with 34" and 30.75" fretted basses. However I'm curious to have a go at fretless bass.

I currently own a 35" scale 5 string fretted had made, made in Thailand, bass with a nice thick ebony fretboard. It currently has two sets of ACG EQ02 systems, one for each pickup installed by John East which I plan to remove at some point.

I don't gig with the bass and only use it for rehearsals or practice when I'm away from home, hence it may be a good candidate for converting to fretless.

So a few things come to mind,
I have no desire to do this myself and wonder if it is:
a) a big job for a luthier to take on
would it be better to have a new finger board or just de-fret the existing one and have the fret slots filled.

c) as I'm more used to 34" scale and the short scale fretted basses is that likely to mess up my muscle memory and hence my ability to play in tune on a 35" scale fretless bass or is the difference so marginal that it makes little difference?


Thanks in advance.

[mybass]

Your side dots will be in the wrong place if you go fretless. You will have to play on the 'lined' fret to be correct on the note and that (usually) isn't in line to where the dots are on the side of the neck.
You might have the dots removed and replace with new ones in the correct position. This will be where the fret line is....or was if you have a new fingerboard put on.
Scale length may be a problem and practice makes perfect. I'm using my new 33" scale fretless with side dots and the change from 34" has been fine though I've played fretless since yesteryear.

[Dudgeman]

First off I am an incredibly keen semi pro guitar builder/restorer so any Pro's out there might know better ways...but I am a cabinet maker of 28 years so it is [i]kind[/i] of my area..but I am always learning so if you hear better advice, then take it!!

It is not normally too difficult to make the change..Darker hardwoods in general tend to be easier to de-fret...(although I haven't done Ebony..I have done wenge and rosewood) Maple can splinter around the frets slots which is not good. I would use maple veneer glued in the slots....sanded back would look a treat. I would look for a really good luthier on recommendation. It is not too long a process..I de fretted my jazz bass and filled and sanded with maple veneer in way under 3 hours..There are things that need to be done ...the nut and saddles usually need work as you can massively lower the action..(no frets to worry about!) sometimes there can be minor issues with the neck..I know a lot of people like to de-fret the neck under tension as the feel that the neck can bow up slightly with all the frets removed...but I have not had that issue. I think the biggest issue is the break out around the fret slots when you remove the frets..obviously if you are replacing the frets then the shoulder of the frets usually cover any slight tear out...Then you get into how you want to finish the neck..I left mine oiled and only use flatwounds...but some prefer to lacquer or epoxy the necks..especially if you want to use roundwounds.. so it's not a huge job generally.. and Mybass is quite right about the dot markers.. although I have a Hohner/Steinberger fretless and bizzarely the fret dots are still in the center between where the frets would normally be and it never bothered me...and that was fretless from the factory...lol

If you don't find a good recommendation for someone be careful who you let loose on it...this was a tale of a warwick I bought recently..

I am going to show a reversal build on a Warwick streamer soon where the guy had it de-fretted by his local guitar shop (who clearly had no idea what they were doing, but funnily enough didn't tell him that) and the shop filled the slots with what can only be some sort of wood filler...well the strings had worn it away in places..the fretboard (Wenge which is notoriously brittle and open pored) was in a terrible state with tear out all over the place....but the filler came out like 3 year old toothpaste....I have had to run a plane over it and re fret it...not a problem as I wanted to flatten the radius slightly any way. But if this is a pride and joy bass don't trust the word of your local Shop...get some good advice on the forum as to who is best to approach..

[ikay]

With a lined fretless, personally I find having the dots in the 'usual' position feels more natural and makes switching between fretted and fretless easier. Removing frets and adding lines is entirely doable by a good luthier. No need to replace the fingerboard unless you want an unlined neck (in which case you will want the dots on the fret positions as mybass says).

[Grangur]

[quote name='Dudgeman' timestamp='1499281201' post='3330543']
First off I am an incredibly keen semi pro guitar builder/restorer so any Pro's out there might know better ways...but I am a cabinet maker of 28 years so it is [i]kind[/i] of my area..but I am always learning so if you hear better advice, then take it!!
....

If you don't find a good recommendation for someone be careful who you let loose on it...this was a tale of a warwick I bought recently..

I am going to show a reversal build on a Warwick streamer soon where the guy had it de-fretted by his local guitar shop (who clearly had no idea what they were doing, but funnily enough didn't tell him that) and the shop filled the slots with what can only be some sort of wood filler...well the strings had worn it away in places..the fretboard (Wenge which is notoriously brittle and open pored) was in a terrible state with tear out all over the place....but the filler came out like 3 year old toothpaste....I have had to run a plane over it and re fret it...not a problem as I wanted to flatten the radius slightly any way. But if this is a pride and joy bass don't trust the word of your local Shop...get some good advice on the forum as to who is best to approach..
[/quote]
Funnily, my background is similar.

From what I've seen I'd say "shop" and "luthier" are mutually exclusive. If you drop an instrument into a shop for their luthier, it can be a real game of chance. You're leaving it to them to pass your pride-n-joy to anyone who offers to do the job at a price they can mark-up and profit from. There are, I'm sure, a few exceptions, but most music-store shops won't give you much control over who does it.

The main exception is, of course, The Bass Gallery.

[Manton Customs]

Yep, it's a relatively simple job. Though the pro level job will pay off when it comes to truing the board correctly after. Just as your frets have to be perfectly level on a fretted bass, your fingerboard needs to be on a fretless. Pro luthiers will have their own methods of doing this, whereas the less experienced will just go at it with a radius block! So as the others have said, pick someone who knows what they're doing!

[Norris]

In addition, ebony can chip quite easily

[jazzyvee]

Thinking about it the donor bass has no position markers on the surface of the fretboard so there shouldn't be any sound problems with sliding over dissimilar materials. But as for getting a good luthier, Jaydee is only a few miles across town for me so that would be my first port of call and hope they aren't too busy making their own basses to fit me in. I'm not even sure I have the guts to do it but it's been on my mind on and off for a while and since that bass isn't one I use for gigging I wouldn't be sacrificing anything from my gigging basses if I didn't take to fretless playing. After reading the comments, i think the safest way forward is to try to find a 35" fretless in a guitar shop and see how that feels to play first before jumping in the deep end.

Eeek I have just remembered there is an inlay of a shark in the 12th fret area is that gonna be problem with vibrato on the 11th and 12th frets?

Edited July 5, 2017 by jazzyvee

[Marc S]

As Grangur says - Shop and Luthier are two different entities. Some shops may have, or use the services of a good luthier, but it is indeed hit & miss.... re changing scale lengths - yes, it can prove a challenge. I started out as a bass guitar player, but now I play Double bass, fretless, and I own a short scale fretted and a medium scale fretted too. If I can do it - so can you lol

The one I'm having problems with atm, is a Kydd "Carry On" EUB which is short scale 30" so that might be better suited to a bass guitarist or short scale player who wants to try their hand at DB / EUB. Again, I haven't spent much time on it, but the more time you spend, the more you adapt.

As others have said, when you convert a fretted to a fretless - the dots are in the "wrong" place - BUT be careful with this. I have a Fretless Jazz which is lined and has the dots in the same place as a fretted bass. In fact, I've previously had 2 lined fretless basses which have been the same. Maybe that's pretty standard for a lined fretless? Anyway, I once tried a fretless with dots in the (ahem) "correct" place... and it confused the hell out of me! If your neck ends up as lined - perhaps you are better off with the dots being in the usual place? Give it some thought, and if you can - try a few basses. Any nearby friendly BC members who would be willing to let you try their fretless if you promise to bring biscuits?

Here's another thought for you. Fretless basses may be more tricky to sell on, should you decide it's not for you. It's a more limited market after all. Could you try to find a second-hand fretless neck to fit one of your existing basses? That way, you stand to lose less dosh, as you can always swap the necks back to sell on, or just sell the neck again? My first fretless was a rather lovely, and inexpensive Squier Vintage Modified Fretless Jazz. I bought it for not much dosh, and sold it on again for around the same money...

In fact that VM Squier was rather lovely. I only sold it on cos I converted a US P to fretless (by buying a lined fretless neck on here) The neck was a straight swap and the P was absolutely lovely. But in truth I preferred the Squier, as the 2 J pickups seemed to suit fretless more. Sorry for the life story there - but I think it illustrates that a £160 s/h fretless bass can be as good as any other. You might even spend that de-fretting (and maybe de-valuing one of your fretted basses) I know it's having yet another bass guitar around - but fretless is different. You could always sell one of your fretted basses on, to make space or restore "domestic equilibrium" lol

EDIT: TO be honest, I now have a rather lovely Fender Japan Fretless - but that Squier VM was almost as good. (the Fender is valued at 3 plus times the cost, but in reality it's not 3 times as good) wish I hadn't sold the Squier to "upgrade" but I do like my Fender Japan

Edited July 6, 2017 by Marc S

[Marc S]

Me again! Lol
I don't know the BC'er selling this one, but there's a Squier VM in the marketplace
http://basschat.co.uk/topic/307489-squire-vm-fretless-jazz/page__p__3330555__hl__fretless__fromsearch__1#entry3330555

[GuyR]

I've recently had a 62 jazz bass made fretless at the gallery. I had a new fingerboard fitted, as it had been replaced previously with maple. Moving the side dots to the correct place would have been impossible do do cleanly, as the side dots straddled both the neck and the fingerboard, so would have been impossible to hide.
If you are used to playing the instrument you should be fine leaving the side position dots where they are. A plain neck does look smart in my opinion. I understand other opinions are available
As others have said, if you are going to take the frets out of the existing fingerboard, get a proper luthier to do it. I had a really nice jazz bass defretted in the 80s. They filled in the slots with a dark rosewood as I asked, but had cut the fret slots deeper before inserting the new slivers of wood. They cut the slots right into the maple. No going back from that. I only ever have work done at the gallery now.
I'm sure Jaydee would be a good choice.

Enyjoy the results. You can't beat fretless