A lawsuit waiting to happen...

[Dudgeman]

I didnt intend this as a build diary..and it isnt really its just an explanation and hopefully a load of pics! But for those of you who hate to wait this is the thread for you.

So the story..I always troll Ebay looking for fun projects..mainly to use to increase my skill levels and try new things..so very low price basses...Squiers etc... I like to take Ok instruments and try and make them into something a bit special or at least a massive improvement...If you have followed my other thread on here I turned a beat up Black Jazz bass into a beautiful candy tangerine bass, improved the bass in every area..new tuners..colour..neck work fret work etc....I digress

So I spot this horrible..horrible black les paul style bass with a complete DIY can spray job with a horrible red stripe across it...thick hand painted headstock...knackered and corroded PUs and Bridge..disastrous frets and neck...just a complete mess. But on checking out the photos really carefully I noticed the tell tale signs of Binding under the paint on the headstock and both front and rear of the body of the bass..the headstock had the full Moustache shaped Headstock...Definitely not a Gibson I thought...bridge was all wrong ...but somewhere in the back of my mind the word Lawsuit bass crept in...

I did some research for '72 or 73 Ibanez lawsuit basses and hiding in the corner of the net was a lovely picture of an all black Ibanez Lawsuit...a match..no doubt...so I bid..... £60...lol.....well it was a huge gamble...I won it for less delivered.

It turns up at work one week later at work...well we have to hide these slightly pissed indiscretions from the wife until we can justify the outlay...she is still convinced I only have 3 basses and can't work out why I have about 10 different cases..bless her...one day I'll cop it!...Back to the bass..It was so bad I can't tell you..well I can show you..see vid 1...I had started stripping it by then so thought I had better get some video and photos for you good people.

[url="https://youtu.be/h-HecJYmNsM"]<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/h-HecJYmNsM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>[/url]

So the plan..Ibanez were sued by Gibson for copying their Headstock and Les Paul shape....so a fake one was what I decided to do..a sort of Ironic homage...Now some of you will not like this and some won't care..fully aware that shoving Gibson logos on non Gibson basses is frowned upon..but this is absolutely not done to deceive..and it will never leave my wall at home anyway...there are enough clues that it isnt real..even down to the fact that I deliberately rubbed away the corner of the MOP inlay on the diamond before clear coating so it is clear that the quality isn't there...

Any way it was just a fun resto... on sanding back the headstock and expecting to see an Ibanez logo I was actually faced with an Antoria logo...turns out in the 70's Antoria bought a load of Les Paul basses from Ibanez before the lawsuit that had Ibanez over the coals about the shape of the headstock. Anoria re branded them and sold them on...... and here is a relic from around '72..

So what next...all the hardware off....and strip it all. Under the crappy paintwork turned out to be a really nice Ash veneered plywood front and back...clearly no expense spared here (No I'm not being serious) !! So I thought about a simple black stained..high gloss finish..yup that will do...

I had a ton of work to do to the neck pocket to make the neck tight...this really challenged me as it was sooo loose..I thought about binding round it but that just didn't work and looked terrible...in the end I came up with an interesting solution using 2 part filler and cling film.. Smothered neck pocket in filler..covered in cling film and re fitted the neck...leave to dry over night...remove neck...remove cling film....tidy, sand and stain filler....job done...



Happy Accident....

Searching at work for some black water based stain I remembered we had been donated a load of black ink...oh that will do thought I......well it did but not what I had imagined..it went a kind of dark brown..incredibly reminiscent of a Gibson colour I had once seen and loved on a ...yup ...Les Paul 6 string....I think it was a trans black version..well it's fate really....so decision made. It divides opinion..but I really like it....

Once stained and top coated I set to the neck and frets...truss rod was pretty crap but fortunately the neck was in good shape when I bought it so this was not a problem. Board cleaned up...frets dressed...neck stained to look a bit worn....binding scraped back...this is looking good. Bought a new brass nut..well why not..never fitted one before so that was installed. I bought a MOP Logo and Diamond from some Russian geezer off the net..and about 30 coats of lacquer later it was hidden under the top coat...job done.

Then to polishing...... dirty filthy job..but everything got polished to within a millimeter of its life...suddenly the build started to get fun and exciting. Everything is original...everything shiny and clean. Machine heads pulled apart cleaned and greased...

So ..how does it play?? Crap....hahaha.....no not that bad...sounds good but the bridge design has no intonation adjustments and it is out at the 12th fret.....Not sure how to deal with this...I could put a Warwick or Gibson style bridge BUT it would then start to look more like the real thing and the bridge is the give away and I like that. It is weird playing such a short scale bass..I mean its tiny...but what I love is the way it looks..and to me its a quirky piece of art..hopefully my daughter might pick it up and have a go... It works well with a pick..but I struggle with finger style on it......Will look great on my wall though and even for its faults I still want to pick it up and have a play....and well that's half the battle...


So in its own funny way Ibanez finally did copy Gibson and rip them off despite being sued...they just don't know that they did..

Hope you like it.....

Edited July 6, 2017 by Dudgeman

[Dudgeman]

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Edited July 6, 2017 by Dudgeman

[Dudgeman]

Body being stripped

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[Dudgeman]

Horrid fret work

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[Dudgeman]

Body stained with Quink ink and poly lacquered.... kept the polish to gloss side of satin..


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[Dudgeman]

Gibson logo added...and lacquered

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[Dudgeman]

Polishing being done

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[Dudgeman]

Rebuild

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[Dudgeman]

Some finished pics...sorry one or two are slightly out of focus

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[Dudgeman]

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Edited July 6, 2017 by Dudgeman

[Dudgeman]

So there you go...I hope you like it..took a fair bit of work but I love to do stuff like this....The beauty is there is nothing on here that most people can't attempt with a bit of patience and a modicum of skill....I hope this inspires you to look at your cheap knock off or Squier bass and get stuck in....

Oh and please don't hate on me for adding the Gibson logo...it really is a tongue in cheek ironic take at what Ibanez would probably have dearly loved to have done in the first place.. ;-)

[rushbo]

That is flippin' gorgeous.

[paul_5]

Yup. I really don't like the look of Les Paul (style) basses - they just don't do it for me, but that is one good looking chunk of wood.

Well done Dudgeman.

[Beer of the Bass]

Is your bridge missing a bit? It looks like there should be some sort of raised saddle in between the studs. That would certainly explain the duff intonation if so!

[Bassassin]

Lovely work refinishing it, but the saddle is missing from the bridge, as BOTB has said - that's why it doesn't intonate. It's a Fujigen build (the factory that made Antoria, Ibanez & numerous other brands) so it should be a good quality instrument & should play well when set up properly.

The bridge (when complete) is an accurate copy of the bridges Gibson used on early EB-0 basses, you can see the missing bit:



I know a few things about old MIJ copies - your bass is an Antoria 2350B, from the tuner style I'd guess it's from '71 or '72. The pickups should have codes inkstamped on the back which give an accurate date, which should give the age of the bass.

FYI there was no connection between Ibanez & Antoria other than the factory the instruments were sourced from - Antoria is a UK brand which at the time was owned by an importer/distributor in Leeds, and Ibanez is a brand name owned by a Japanese trading company called Hoshino Gakki. If you do a bit of reading from informed sources, you'll find there wasn't actually a lawsuit, as Hoshino had changed the headstock shape a year prior to the legal threat that Norlin Gibson made in 1977.

You can probably guess that I'm not too keen on the logo - but aside from that you've done a stunning job - and once you get a functioning bridge on it, don't be surprised if it turns out to be a player, too.

[Dudgeman]

Hi..thanks for the info..i had completely missed the saddle section on the only reference photo I could find... any idea where I might get one...??

I knew the logo would split opinion..I went back and forth with it before settling on it...I tried to do a lot of research on it while I was working on it..I did know that the lawsuit didn't take place but the only info I found about Antoria said that it was a UK brand..and that they ordered unbranded basses directly through the Ibanez ..but It looks like your info is more solid than the net..

Really excited at the possibility of sorting the saddle...camt believe I missed it on my reference photo.. I know I sorted it so I am biased but it really did turn out way better than I could have hoped...

[Dudgeman]

[quote name='rushbo' timestamp='1499381607' post='3331267']
That is flippin' gorgeous.
[/quote]

Thanks

[Dudgeman]

[quote name='paul_5' timestamp='1499382132' post='3331269']
Yup. I really don't like the look of Les Paul (style) basses - they just don't do it for me, but that is one good looking chunk of wood.


Well done Dudgeman.
[/quote]

Thanks..really happy with it...

Edited July 7, 2017 by Dudgeman

[Dudgeman]

[quote name='Beer of the Bass' timestamp='1499382160' post='3331270']
Is your bridge missing a bit? It looks like there should be some sort of raised saddle in between the studs. That would certainly explain the duff intonation if so!
[/quote]

Your spot on..as I said elsewhere..cant believe I missed it..doh!

[W1_Pro]

Lovely job. Nice to see an old bass being brought back to life so thoughtfully.

[TheGreek]

Love the finish on the body - one of the best [i]mistakes[/i] I've seen.

I say again, there are some lovely builds going on here at the moment.

[Adrenochrome]

Outstanding result after your efforts there! I'm particularly impressed by the condition of the binding underneath. If you can get the bridge sorted, rock the sh1t out of it, it doesn't look like a museum piece

[Bassassin]

The saddle's a simple metal bar - it should be possible to improvise something. I don't think anything current uses the old 2-point system so your choice for a new replacement is limited to a rather expensive Hipshot:

[url="http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hipshot-Supertone-4-string-Bass-Bridge-Gibson-2-point-Chrome-5G410C-/111705155990"]http://www.ebay.co.u...C-/111705155990[/url]

And that's assuming the post spacing is the same. Considering it's an arch-top, your other alternatives would be a 3-point or some sort of tune-o-matic & stop bar/tailpiece arrangement.

Moving swiftly on, wouldn't mind a bit of insight into exactly how you went about getting that finish - I have an old Ibanez Blazer half-stripped which would look amazing done like that.

[Dudgeman]

[quote name='Bassassin' timestamp='1499429731' post='3331516']
The saddle's a simple metal bar - it should be possible to improvise something. I don't think anything current uses the old 2-point system so your choice for a new replacement is limited to a rather expensive Hipshot:

[url="http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hipshot-Supertone-4-string-Bass-Bridge-Gibson-2-point-Chrome-5G410C-/111705155990"]http://www.ebay.co.u...C-/111705155990[/url]

And that's assuming the post spacing is the same. Considering it's an arch-top, your other alternatives would be a 3-point or some sort of tune-o-matic & stop bar/tailpiece arrangement.

Moving swiftly on, wouldn't mind a bit of insight into exactly how you went about getting that finish - I have an old Ibanez Blazer half-stripped which would look amazing done like that.
[/quote]

So the finish was relatively simple. Rubbed the body down to natural wood. I just used black Quink ink.. (or maybe Parker..cant quite remember)..when it goes on it covered pretty well..i let it dry and then very lightly sanded back with 1200 grit dry paper. It took quite a few coats. I wish I had taken some photos of that process..as before it was sanded each time it didn't look good...it was a kind of shiny black brown colour. Once sanded back and all the shinyness was gone the grain shone through. It was a very thin covering in the end and was easily damaged...it then got sprayed with 2k poly lacquer.. rubbed back..but only to 1200..i usely go finer and polished out.

I didn't over polish it so it doesn't have a completely glass like finish...just a really good shine. As it was ink I had to sand it out in places as any glue residue shows through and obviously the ink doesnt soak in. The ink dust is really dirty when you sand it back though..so watch your clothes...carpets...laundry...etc...

[Norris]

It is a lovely finish. Looks almost like walnut