Al Krow Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 Two of the most highly regarded bass cab makers in the market. A lot of love from fellow BCers for both. Love the design and power handling of the Vanderlkeys. http://www.vanderkleyamp.nl/products/cabinets/210lnt/ The 210 LNT can handle 1200W (with a choice of either 4 or 8 ohms), 44 lbs Love the lightweight nature of the BFs http://barefacedbass.com/product-range/Super-Twin.htm A 212 at just 37 lbs (with the more attractive silver cloth grille) also handles 1200W Both around £925 delivered. I've got budget to get one or the other and would really appreciate a steer from you guys! Which one would you go for any why? If you had one and decided it wasn't for you that would also be really interesting to hear? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahpook Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 Fight ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 At this level of gear better doesn't exist. These are some of the best cabs made. Your personal preference will be what decides you to pick one over the other. I'd also add Bergantino to the list. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treb Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 When in doubt support your local economy. If Vanderkley still made a 4x8" when I was cab shopping I would have bought that. Apparently his 4x8" never got past the prototype stage. He suggested me to buy a 4x10". I bought two Markbass 4x8"s... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Krow Posted July 7, 2017 Author Share Posted July 7, 2017 (edited) Couple more things, if I may guys! In relation to the two cabs I've posted links about above, how do you find a 210 in terms of handling the lows on the Vanderkley, particularly a B string or octave down, compared to the 12" of the BF, or is this a non point? The other point I wanted to raise was that I've come across some remarks elsewhere about not trusting the plywood construction of BF cabs. Have any of you found your BF to be either slightly fragile and / or been wary of damaging it? Does the wood used in the cab construction have any bearing on the quality of the sound a cab puts out or is that pretty much entirely down to the speakers, electronics and drivers? I had the following really helpful couple of responses to this on another thread (which was a bit off topic and a reason for me starting a fresh thread). These guys both clearly know a lot more than me about the subject and both agreed on the importance of good cab design but disagreed on the importance of the choice of woods for the cabs: The wood used in the construction of a cab is not important it's how much the cab vibrates. The energy used to make the cab vibrate is wasted energy, energy that should be used to make sound. 18mm ply has become the norm for cab construction because it's easy to make and you don't have to worry about bracing but you end up with a heavy cabinet. MDF is better from a vibration point of view but is even heavier and easily damaged and absorbs water quite well. A concrete cabinet would be perfect but not very practical. If you can brace a cabinet well so that there is no vibration then you can have it all, a light cabinet made of thinner material that performs brilliantly. Bill Fitzmaurice and Alex at Barefaced have done just that and while personal preference in sound plays a large part in the decision on what to spend your money on, no one can disagree that their products are some of the best you can buy or make. Edited March 24, 2021 by Dad3353 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 As I said in those threads, if you think that BF cabs are fragile you haven't done your homework. And bertbass is correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fitzmaurice Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 (edited) Love the design and power handling of the Vanderlkeys. http://www.vanderkle...abinets/210lnt/ The 210 LNT can handle 1200W Where it comes to low frequency output watts don't matter, driver displacement does. Vanderkley doesn't list it. Barefaced does for most of their lineup, but not for the newer cabs loaded with tens. Alex needs to attend to that. Edited March 24, 2021 by Dad3353 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orbs Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 (edited) I've not found my BF cabs to be in any way 'fragile', and they have been used extensively. As for which is better; that's like asking which is the best Bass Guitar, it's personal choice. I think they are both great cabs, and you'll be happy with whichever you plump for, ideally hear each first if you can. I think BF still allow a months free trial, not sure if Vanderkley do, so that might be a good option for you to consider before pulling the trigger. Good luck with your choice...... Edited March 24, 2021 by Dad3353 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 I have three BF cabs. All outstanding and designed and built in the UK by a bassist that I can go and see or phone for advice at any time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Krow Posted July 7, 2017 Author Share Posted July 7, 2017 (edited) I'd also add Bergantino to the list. The major concern I have with Bergs is their weight. The "equivalent" and comparably priced 1000W handling Berg HD212 comes in at a back-breaking 79lbs which is approximately DOUBLE the weight of the Vanderkley and Barefaced cabs I'm thinking about. Edited March 24, 2021 by Dad3353 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 Having had Barefaced cabs - a good few at that - they are far from fragile, more than happy to sit in a boot/van/load-space and rattle around. I always have Roqsolid covers for my cabs of course, but BFs are much harder than they look - maybe the Clark Kent of bass cabs? I`ve not used Vandrkleys but the regular non-retro range of BF are very clean/flat sounding, no colouration so really let your bass and amp shine through, what you put in is what comes out. It`s a bit off-putting the first time you plug into one, as you really hear how much other brands colour the sound with added lows/reduced highs. But that`s praise, not criticism I might add. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudpup Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 (edited) The major concern I have with Bergs is their weight. The "equivalent" and comparably priced 1000W handling Berg HD212 comes in at a back-breaking 79lbs which is approximately DOUBLE the weight of the Vanderkley and Barefaced cabs I'm thinking about. The Berg equivalent isn't the HD212 - that has ceramic speakers which are much heavier. The others are Neo's and thats where a large part of the weight in the cab is. The Berg HDN212 is the Neo equivalent and weighs 48lbs. Its also made of lighter weight ply than the HD series which is Baltic birch. Edited March 24, 2021 by Dad3353 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Starr Posted July 8, 2017 Share Posted July 8, 2017 (edited) For once I'm going to restrain myself from another over long technical explanation and say 'Al stop worrying'. Yes the type of wood matters and so does the construction method, but can you order one of these cabs built out of the other's wood? Both claim rather over enthusiastic power handling if you take into account all frequencies and expect them to handle continuous power but both will probably handle all you throw at them in practice. Power handling is largely down to voice coil diameter for the upper frequencies and excursion for the lower ones as BFM hinted. Anyway the designs have been finished and the speakers made, you can't change anything but you know both are quality products which you'll be proud of. All you need to do is decide which sounds best to you. Go and spend some time with each. It's like test driving a car, you've done your research, narrowed your choice down and now it's time to sit in the drivers seat and find out if the designs suit your needs. The design features are all interesting but you'd never buy a car without a test drive and neither should you spend that much on a cab. Enjoy your day in Brighton and make sure you check out the opposition Edited March 24, 2021 by Dad3353 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Browning Posted July 8, 2017 Share Posted July 8, 2017 I recently witnesed a a/b between the Berg and the Vanderkley. Both sounded great but I have also heard the Berg at a decent number of gigs (a good mate has one). It's an awesome cab. The Vanderkley was pretty close in sound (but it was a nice red colour!!). Is there any reason you seem to favour a 2x10 Vanderkley and a 2x12 BF or is that just a 'for instance' thing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FinnDave Posted July 8, 2017 Share Posted July 8, 2017 I have two Barefaced cabs, the deciding factor for me would be the fact that you can discuss the cab you want with the designer very easily, they are just down the road in Sussex. The other make I have never tried, have no idea where they are from, in fact I know nothing about them, but they would have to very very good to be any better than Barefaced. I have the first production Super Twin, so it is getting on for 4 years old now, been gigged many times in those years, still looks like new, still sounds incredible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Browning Posted July 8, 2017 Share Posted July 8, 2017 True enough (another Cartoon Hero, I see - Rob is one talented chap isn't he?). With which designer did you discuss any of the other items in your signature? I'm not knocking BF (although it looks like it) but the designer is also the principal salesman. I suspect that the OP is after opinions which are more 'independent'. I did use two BF Compacts for a while but found I preferred the Boogie 1x15s. Another chum has two BF 1x12s and they are great sounding cabs too. What about a trip to Bass Direct? Could be that all those choices are there, under one roof and the owner there has a reputation for blunt assessment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warwickhunt Posted July 8, 2017 Share Posted July 8, 2017 I'm interested in the OPs decision making process for getting to his shortlist of cabs: VK 2x10 & BF 2x12 Is it weight and cost? I only ask as you could equally add some 1x15 cabs into the mix from other manufacturers. The tone of the cab isn't strictly linked to the speaker diameter so you have a much broader range of options. Why exclude TKS, Berg, etc in favour of BF VK... simply interested in your process for shortlisting? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musashimonkey Posted July 8, 2017 Share Posted July 8, 2017 I've been very happy with both Vanderklay and Barefaced cabs. I'm currently on Vanderklay as that was what was available at the time in the second hand market. But both brands offer excellent cabs. I'm sure you'll be happy with either. The differences that I would note and consider would be slight weight difference (which gives a different structural feel to them), handle design, carpet vs painted finish, and aesthetics regarding grill, cloth, red or black. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreeneKing Posted July 8, 2017 Share Posted July 8, 2017 (edited) At this level of gear better doesn't exist. EAD 212 Edited March 24, 2021 by Dad3353 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted July 8, 2017 Share Posted July 8, 2017 (edited) EAD 212 I watched the thread when these cabs were designed I'm sure they are excellent pieces of kit. Unfortunately this cab will never make most people's short lists because there aren't enough of them around to get noticed. Edited March 24, 2021 by Dad3353 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FinnDave Posted July 8, 2017 Share Posted July 8, 2017 (edited) True enough (another Cartoon Hero, I see - Rob is one talented chap isn't he?). Ah, Steve from Portsmouth, I saw you play with CH at Radstock near Faringdon maybe two years ago?? I came over the to the festival just to see Rob & the guys, as we weren't playing until later in the evening. Great band, but only managed one gig with them so far this year. Edited March 24, 2021 by Dad3353 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dood Posted July 8, 2017 Share Posted July 8, 2017 If anyone wants to send me a range of Vanderkley 12" speaker cabinets I'll be able to offer my thoughts verses Berg HDN112, HDN212, HD112 (x2), Barefaced Big Twin II, Barefaced Big Baby II, Aguilar GS112, Aguilar SL112, Hartke 112 (x2), Dr Bass (lol), EBS Classic 112 (x2) Trickfish 112, Laney 112, TC Electronic K-Cabs 212... and probably a few more off the top of my head too. I've owned most of these but some I have reviewed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Krow Posted July 8, 2017 Author Share Posted July 8, 2017 (edited) Hi guys - thanks for all your various responses to date. Responding to a couple of your points: The Berg equivalent isn't the HD212 - that has ceramic speakers which are much heavier. The others are Neo's and thats where a large part of the weight in the cab is. The Berg HDN212 is the Neo equivalent and weighs 48lbs. Its also made of lighter weight ply than the HD series which is Baltic birch. Yup fair point. The Berg HDN212 is however +30% on cost (£1,200 new) and - 30% on power handling (700W RMS), as well as being circa 10% to 20% heavier. So kinda still feels like that it doesn't square up to the VK or BF cabs? I know from our chat elsewhere you've just managed to get hold of a Berg 210 for a very decent price second hand from a fellow BCer and it will be interesting to see how that stacks up against your BF cabs? The Berg 210 is decently lightweight, but I felt it compromised with a relatively low 400W RMS handling capability - so it will be great to get your feedback on how they stack up. Edited March 24, 2021 by Dad3353 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted July 8, 2017 Share Posted July 8, 2017 (edited) EAD 212 Pfft, overpriced Dr Bass clones. Edited March 24, 2021 by Dad3353 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fitzmaurice Posted July 8, 2017 Share Posted July 8, 2017 (edited) I know folks sometimes say that speaker diameter is not a big issue these days, but I'm not entirely convinced, purely from the physics of sound waves, but I'm sure Bill FM will be able to correct me if I have that wrong! It's never been a big issue compared to all of the driver specs that do matter.The problem lies in getting sufficient accurate data to make an informed choice when the ability to try a number of cabs side by side doesn't exist. Edited March 24, 2021 by Dad3353 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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