Vanderkley are better than Barefaced cabs, right?!

[lou24d53]

On 25/03/2019 at 13:56, lou24d53 said:

So after much deliberation and over a month of "too-ing" and "fro-ing" between the Barefaced Super Twin and both the Vanderkley 210LNT (initally) and 212LNT (latterly), I've just gone and pulled the trigger on a brand new BF ST...

I suppose I've taken a stab in the dark as neither are exactly prominent around these parts to get a full try out with, however with the abundance of positive reviews on here for all things BF, coupled with lightweight build and smaller footprint, of the 212LNT at least - not least the 12-month interest free payment option also - I've decided to roll the dice...

Oooooh....it's here....😎

After four long weeks......not to mention the extra two days trying to get the delivery to suit misses lou being in the house......the eagle has landed...😁

[Cuzzie]

And that my son is a thing of beauty

 

congrats

[Al Krow]

Congrats indeed! What amp and bass will you be pairing it with? Come on - let's see a pic of the new rig and your bass in all its glory! 😎

Edited April 30, 2019 by Al Krow

[lou24d53]

Never even got a chance to plug in tonight, wee man in his cot...

I'll be using a Quilter BB800 and (mainly) Fender Am Standard P...but sometimes a Lakland Skyline Joe Osborn "Dudepit"...

Pictures tomorrow...👍

[scrumpymike]

All very interesting this!  I bought into BF with a couple of used cabs - an SC Gen3 and Midget T.  The latter went in favour of another SC G3 (didn't really need/like the tweeter).  Now I've added a used Two10 and plan to keep all 3 cabs until I decide whether the retro 10" drivers suit me and my amps/basses better than the 12-inchers.  If both styles work equally well in different contexts, I'll keep/use all 3 cabs (not mixing the different driver sizes as recommended by Alex).  If the 10s turn out to be better for everything, I'll sell the SC G3s and buy another Two10.  Oh, nearly forgot about the One10 I use at home and small gigs - that's brilliant for what it does and is a keeper.  I've decided against trying other makes as I like the BF sounds, size & weight are over-riding factors for me - and life's too short!!

[Al Krow]

Well it's been almost exactly 3 years since I started this thread (just been reminded of it by Alex C popping up on another thread!) and just to finish the story...

I did get two VK210s: the MNT and the LNT models. Both very good cabs, but didn't end up keeping them.

...I've actually since via various other, and sometimes excellent, cabs ended up with three 112s. One of which is a BF BB2 and another a BF SC!

 

All's well that ends well

Edited August 14, 2020 by Al Krow

[BassManGraham]

Can't believe this provocative, click baity thread is three years old.😂

I have several Vanderkley and BF cabs, love them all and would not part with them. That said my trusty old BF Super Twelve T is (or was i.e.pre Covid) by far the most regularly gigged.😎

[scrumpymike]

I have 4 BF cabs - 1 x One10, 1 x Two10s and 2 x SC3s.  They are all brilliant (for me anyway) and I've stopped looking at other cabs.  My view was endorsed by one of the Basschat self-build cab team, who told me at the end of the last S-W Bass Bash that the sounds coming from my Eden WT550 Traveler thru the SC3s was the best he'd heard.

[Al Krow]

Bumping an old thread ( @Dad3353 - grateful if you could do your magic and give some of the old posts a refresh if / when you get a spare moment, please).

Been having a brief FRFR chat with a BC mate recently and got me thinking about my BB2 (which I'm very much looking forward to trying out in anger once lockdown ends!)

@jrixn1, John - you've separately mentioned a couple of times that you actually found FRFR to be as good / if not better than your BB2.

@dave_bass5, Dave - I think you mentioned earlier on this thread about the BB2 being a touch mids-light (or at least I think it was you, you know what my memory can be like, lol!) 

In both cases I'd be really interested to know what amps you gents were pairing with your BB2s?

[jrixn1]

20 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

 

@jrixn1, John - you've separately mentioned a couple of times that you actually found FRFR to be as good / if not better than your BB2.

Can I check what you mean when you say "FRFR"?  Because a BB2 and a clean head is full-range and flat-response.  Do you mean "a powered speaker"?  In which case yes, I do think my RCF 732A is as good as - if not better than - my BB2 setup.  They both sound really good: loud, clear, etc - all the usual properties one desires.  BB2 weighs less though, clear winner.

With my BB2, I used a Genz Benz Shuttle 9.2.  It seems pretty flat and uncoloured with the drive turned down, and EQ controls at noon.  I didn't do any scientific tests.
 

[Dad3353]

Old posts refreshed (but there's a lot of dross in there, so not as useful as it could have been. A pity, that. ...)

Edited March 24, 2021 by Dad3353

[Al Krow]

45 minutes ago, jrixn1 said:

Can I check what you mean when you say "FRFR"?  Because a BB2 and a clean head is full-range and flat-response.  Do you mean "a powered speaker"?  In which case yes, I do think my RCF 732A is as good as - if not better than - my BB2 setup.  They both sound really good: loud, clear, etc - all the usual properties one desires.  BB2 weighs less though, clear winner.

With my BB2, I used a Genz Benz Shuttle 9.2.  It seems pretty flat and uncoloured with the drive turned down, and EQ controls at noon.  I didn't do any scientific tests.
 

Thanks John. Yup, FRFR is often used as short hand for PA speakers (typically powered) on BC and certainly I've fallen into that habit. But you're quite right that it properly stands for a "full-range and flat-response" set up!

Edited March 24, 2021 by Al Krow

[Kiwi]

7 hours ago, jrixn1 said:

Can I check what you mean when you say "FRFR"?  Because a BB2 and a clean head is full-range and flat-response.  Do you mean "a powered speaker"?  In which case yes, I do think my RCF 732A is as good as - if not better than - my BB2 setup.  They both sound really good: loud, clear, etc - all the usual properties one desires.  BB2 weighs less though, clear winner.

With my BB2, I used a Genz Benz Shuttle 9.2.  It seems pretty flat and uncoloured with the drive turned down, and EQ controls at noon.  I didn't do any scientific tests.
 

All cabs have some form of colouring.  There was a comparison of 1x12 cabs at the SE Bass Bash in 2015 and the BB2 showed some colouring in the higher frequencies, to my ears, perhaps not due to the design as much as the tweeter. But there were others that were more coloured and remained surprisingly popular amongst attendees. Some colouring can also help with monitoring in a crowded on stage mix. 

My fEARless F112 cabs are more like PA cabs but they're not as light as a BB2.  Maybe they're a little too sweet for live use. I run them each with a GB shuttle 6

[Al Krow]

6 hours ago, Kiwi said:

My fEARless F112 cabs are more like PA cabs but they're not as light as a BB2.  Maybe they're a little too sweet for live use. I run them each with a GB shuttle 6

+1^^ on all the above. 

I do love my fEARless F112, it's an outstanding 1x12! But the weight advantage of the BB2 is very welcome for use with my bands and it's obviously another very capable cab. 

[stevie]

Interesting to know that which cab is better was actually irrelevant to your choice, Al. What mattered was which cab is lighter. We could have solved that one for you three years ago.

Edited March 26, 2021 by stevie

[Grangur]

Both cabs are amazing in quality and performance IMHO. The rest is subjective.

[Al Krow]

1 hour ago, stevie said:

Interesting to know that which cab is better was actually irrelevant to your choice, Al. What mattered was which cab is lighter. We could have solved that one for you three years ago.

Weight and portability are certainly important considerations for me, as I think you'll find they are for a lot of folk. Not too many on BC are lugging around "fridges" any more! 

But it's only a part of the equation: for example, I've traded up my BF SC for a heavier BF BB2, and have no plans of ditching my Fearless F112 which is heavier still and a wonderful cab.

Edited March 26, 2021 by Al Krow

[scrumpymike]

Since my earlier posts I'm still with BF.  That's not because I haven't found anything better - the BF stuff is so good for me that I just haven't bothered looking!  Finally decided I preferred the uncoloured sound of the 12" SC3 cabs so sold my pair of Two10S cabs and will be adding a 3rd SC.  My One10/Eden WTX264 mini rig continues to delight for home use and unplugged-type gigs though.  As a footnote, the search for my 'holy grail' amp is over too since I got my Mesa Subway TT800.  I just can't wait to run it through the SC3s at gig volumes 😊

[grandad]

Well, as the BF One10 was so small & light I bought one a couple of years ago. The sound/tone was just so good that I bought another. The 2 are more than enough for my needs and with a lightweight class D head, (TCE BH250), I'm still able to roadie for myself. So a thumbs-up to BF. 

Edited November 14, 2021 by grandad

[Al Krow]

33 minutes ago, scrumpymike said:

Since my earlier posts I'm still with BF.  That's not because I haven't found anything better - the BF stuff is so good for me that I just haven't bothered looking!  Finally decided I preferred the uncoloured sound of the 12" SC3 cabs so sold my pair of Two10S cabs and will be adding a 3rd SC.  My One10/Eden WTX264 mini rig continues to delight for home use and unplugged-type gigs though.  As a footnote, the search for my 'holy grail' amp is over too since I got my Mesa Subway TT800.  I just can't wait to run it through the SC3s at gig volumes 😊

Oooh appreciate, it's a bit of a thread de-rail (but it's my party and I'll cry if I want to, right? 😁)...please tell us a bit more about your TT800 and why it's so good? What have you had previously to compare it against and what is giving the TT800 the edge over them for you? 

[scrumpymike]

2 hours ago, Al Krow said:

Oooh appreciate, it's a bit of a thread de-rail (but it's my party and I'll cry if I want to, right? 😁)...please tell us a bit more about your TT800 and why it's so good? What have you had previously to compare it against and what is giving the TT800 the edge over them for you? 

Here's what I posted on the 'New Mesa Subway Head' topic.  Not too much of substance on there but the TT800 topic on Talkbass is well worth a look if you've got a couple of weeks to spare - it's massive and includes a huge number of extremely informative posts by designer Andy ('Agedhorse')

"When choosing a bass amp, there’s always an element of compromise.  As a gigging musician, I have to look (well, listen mainly) for one that has a broad enough palette of tonal colours for the different kinds of music I play in diverse bands.  That’s the practical side of things, but it’s not all.  Like most bass players, I also carry within me that ‘holy grail’ sound that lives somewhere in the magic triangle between my head, my heart and my soul and grew from a seed that was planted in my teenage years.  This personal ‘gold standard’ is an emotional rather than practical aspect – but it’s an equally important requirement that has to be adequately addressed by my amp of choice.  In my case, I guess you would describe it as warm and round but at the same time punchy and coherent enough to cut through the live mix.  So, that’s the starting point for my subjective review of the TT-800.

The amp I sold to make space for the TT-800 was a Subway D800+, which in turn replaced a D800.  Both of these were extremely capable, much loved, and tough acts to follow.  However, the respect I have for Mesa Engineering after gigging those two amps together with the glowing reports from Talkbass forum members led me to expect even more from the TT-800.  Another factor for me was my liking for the GK MB800 Fusion that served as back-up for my earlier Subways.  I loved it for its punchy delivery and valve flavour but it was just too lively for me.  My reasoning was that the addition of valve goodness to Mesa’s signature voicing would be just what I needed – and so it has turned out to be.

The design brief for the TT-800 was for a two-channel amp that combined the best of the D800+ (the Subway channel) with the much-loved tones of yesteryear’s Boogie 400+.  Sounds like a great trick if you can do it!  So did Mesa manage to pull it off?

I’ll start with what I’m familiar with, namely the D800+-inspired Subway channel.  The short answer is yes!  On this channel, you get all of the D800+ positives enhanced with that subtle valve colouring.  The features that were game-changers on the ‘plus’ upgrade of the D800 are also present and correct on the TT, namely: the high-pass filter and the high and low boost switches.  You truly would have to work hard to get bad sounds out of this channel.

The Boogie channel is new to me, never having heard the classic 400+.  My initial feeling is that this is a great rock amp offering authentic classic valve tones with all the usable sweet overdrive that I will ever need – and then some.  For my purposes, it is the ideal partner to the Subway channel.

I could go on about some of the more subtle features of this amp (and probably will do at a later date) but don’t want to comment further until I have used it at gig volumes – or even at actual gigs!  We and our adoring public remain hopeful.

Last of all, I can’t sign off without mentioning a couple of arguably trivial aspects of my TT-800 purchasing experience.  My amp arrived 6 months after I placed my order with Andertons Music and had obviously spent much of that time outside Mesa’s control.  I must say I was expecting the worst (it’s called the covid mindset) and was pleasantly surprised when the carton arrived looking like it left the factory the day before.  Top marks to Mesa for their packaging.  Inside the box, there was clear evidence that this is a company that cares.  The wire wraps used to close the internal packets had been carefully – almost decoratively – tied in a way that would do credit to Harrods’ gift-wrapping department.  Inside them I found a headphone adapter socket, a set of thick felt insulation pads to go between the amp’s rubber feet and your cab’s, the best user manual I have ever come across – and a wonderful black card hand-signed in white marker by no less than 14 members of the assembly and inspection teams.  I can’t derive names from all the signatures but you all know who you are and, in case you ever read this, I salute you.  We all know it’s often the little things that tell the true story."

FYI, my background amp wise is:  TE for many years, then more recently Ashdown, Eden, TC Elec, G-K, G-B, Darkglass, Ampeg then various Mesa amps as described above.

Edited March 26, 2021 by scrumpymike

[Kiwi]

I approached Alex about tilt back cabs back when he was starting out and he didn't see them as something he wanted to do.  So fEARless were the best option available. 

A Mesa Bass 400+ was the best valve head I've ever owned.  But it doesn't do overdrive.  That's a more modern thing. 

[TheGreek]

1 hour ago, scrumpymike said:

Like most bass players, I also carry within me that ‘holy grail’ sound that lives somewhere in the magic triangle between my head, my heart and my soul and grew from a seed that was planted in my teenage years. 

Copied to "Famous quotes" thread

[scrumpymike]

8 minutes ago, TheGreek said:

Copied to "Famous quotes" thread

Cripes, I'm finally famous then!  Shame it's only for talking about playing rather than actually doing it.

[scrumpymike]

1 hour ago, Kiwi said:

A Mesa Bass 400+ was the best valve head I've ever owned.  But it doesn't do overdrive.  That's a more modern thing. 

The 400+-inspired Boogie Channel on the TT800 does it big time.