End of cash in hand for gigs?

[KevB]

From the latest rumblings from the govt it seems they are genuinely looking to end these sorts of practices. If landlords are obliged to go through with it then could have an impact on how many on here go about their hobby perhaps?

Edited July 11, 2017 by KevB

[GuyR]

I must have misread the title. The content is far less exciting than I had anticipated.

[JapanAxe]

[quote name='GuyR' timestamp='1499802136' post='3333758']
I must have misread the title. The content is far less exciting than I had anticipated.
[/quote]

[FinnDave]

Green King pubs, at least this in my area, are no longer paying bands in bundles of readies, it is transferred to a nominated bank account after the gig. Which obviously means extra work for the bass player who then has to withdraw the cash and split it amongst the rest of the band.

[Chris2112]

In fairness, the end of the cash-in-hand economy would benefit us all as there would be a fair tax paid on everything (much like every time we do the shopping, fill up the car, buy a record).

Landlords are already reluctant to pay for bands. I don't suppose those who really value live music will change their tune if they can't pay cash in hand. Similarly, as long as musicians are prepared to play by the rules, they'll still find places to play.

[squire5]

A couple of judicious hyphens in the title (Cash-in-hand) would clear up what seems to be an advert for free services LOL.But in my part of the country (N.I.) cash in hand is all I've ever known.Save for a few hoity-toity Golf Clubs who insist in paying by cheque,and one Health Trust who maintained that paying the band be included in the end of the month expense sheet.ie we didn't get paid till the end of the month.All our pub gigs are cash-in-hand as are weddings.Never had a problem.

[KevB]

OK title edited for the faint hearted and finbar saunders among us.

[yorks5stringer]

You mean some of you get paid for gigs...?

[TimR]

[quote name='KevB' timestamp='1499800846' post='3333745']
From the latest rumblings from the govt it seems they are genuinely looking to end these sorts of practices. If landlords are obliged to go through with it then could have an impact on how many on here go about their hobby perhaps?
[/quote]

They'd probably have to end paying cash for drinks somehow first.

[TimR]

[quote name='FinnDave' timestamp='1499804543' post='3333786']
Green King pubs, at least this in my area, are no longer paying bands in bundles of readies, it is transferred to a nominated bank account after the gig. Which obviously means extra work for the bass player who then has to withdraw the cash and split it amongst the rest of the band.
[/quote]

This is where you have to start being careful. It's one thing getting paid £50 into your bank account for each gig. Once you start getting all the bands money paid directly to you and then start paying it out, it can start to look like something else.

Ultimately the HMRC aren't interested in chasing bands for money. It costs them more than they'd receive.

[Norris]

If we hadn't been paid in cash back in the 90s we'd never have been able to put petrol in the van to get back home after the gig!
) always used to hate cheque gigs. We stopped playing one venue recently because the hassle and delays in passing invoices around just wasn't worth the money they were paying us.

Cash in hand ftw imho!

[grandad]

If I'd have bothered to keep proper accounts for gigging as a second income I reckon I would have received a refund when you think of everything you can claim for on expenses, all your gear, clothing, travel, paperwork, etc. A decent accountant can more than save you his annual fee. As has been said, the taxman probably realises that already.

A lot of pub's here in the Midlands are allowed about £150 a week for entertainment. Still usually cash in hand, sometimes signed for.

[Jus Lukin]

-

Edited February 25, 2022 by Jus Lukin

[Adrenochrome]

[quote name='Jus Lukin' timestamp='1499813115' post='3333866']
... how so many musicians can scam their way through gigs. It is illegal, after all...
[/quote]

What scam are you referring to?

[leschirons]

Be nice if the government had a look at Amazon, PayPal and Starbucks before jumping on window cleaners and pub bands.

It's happening here too. 70% of our gigs are now paid by cheque. We take it in turns to bank it although, I actually declare my earnings. Better than looking over your shoulder.

[bazzbass]

[quote name='Jus Lukin' timestamp='1499813115' post='3333866']
how so many musicians can scam their way through gigs. It is illegal, after all.


[/quote]

I didn't realise spending years learning my instrument, spending thousands on gear, rehearsing with my band, loading heavy black boxes into my car, driving to the gig, loading in, setting up, soundcheck, PLAYING for 3 hours, packing up, loading boxes back into my car, driving home and loading said boxes back into my house, for the pricely sum of $50 is SCAMMING !

wow what a scam we are onto, I bet thousands are lining up to join this money making scam !

But, you keep an accounting book, so you are above all this lol

get off your high-horse, cowboy

[Lozz196]

When you look at how many hours are worked, for the amount paid, does it even come into the earnings bracket that is taxable? Leave at 11am, drive to Morecambe, get there at 7pm, play the gig, get to hotel at 1am the next day. £200 between 3 of us, deduct petrol and accommodation costs.

Yep, much better that the tax-man has my band in his sights rather than Amazon or Starbucks, Knock Off paying tax would sort the economy and end austerity in some 19million, 200,000 years or so.

[Adrenochrome]

For what it's worth people have submitted proper tax returns from doing weekend warrior pub gigs, and with all the deductable stuff the taxman ended up owing them. Taxman eventually said don't bother.

[jazzyvee]

I don't really see it as a problem I hardly ever pay the band cash these days even when I recieve the cash at the end of the gig. Since becoming self employed in my day job my accountant has advised me to pay it into my personal bank account and then pay the band individually by bank transfer. Sometimes strangely the manager of the venue pays the band members individually.

[Geek99]

[quote name='GuyR' timestamp='1499802136' post='3333758']
I must have misread the title. The content is far less exciting than I had anticipated.
[/quote]
I'm sure this was originally titled "end of cash in hand jobs" - I read it very briefly before it refreshed

[mikel]

I can't really see a problem for the run of the mill semi pro musician, as has been pointed out we probably lose out financially when equipment and travel are factored in. I believe this is aimed more at companies using the current legislation to avoid employee rights, such as a decent contract with NI payments, holiday pay, sick pay, guaranteed hours for those who want it. etc.

It would make a nice change if the tax loopholes were closed to stop the companies and people who can more than afford to pay there tax bill, rather than chasing a part time window cleaner or a semi pro musician who is probably losing money when all expenses are taken into account. It simply makes it look like the administration are doing something if they chase the little guy. What is being suggested looks like a step in the right direction to me.

Edited July 12, 2017 by mikel

[SpondonBassed]

[quote name='Geek99' timestamp='1499850020' post='3334001']
I'm sure this was originally titled "end of cash in hand jobs" - I read it very briefly before it refreshed
[/quote]

I can really [i]feel[/i] your disillusionment.

[PaulWarning]

[quote name='mikel' timestamp='1499852221' post='3334024']
I can't really see a problem for the run of the mill semi pro musician, as has been pointed out we probably lose out financially when equipment and travel are factored in. I believe this is aimed more at companies using the current legislation to avoid employee rights, such as a decent contract with NI payments, holiday pay, sick pay, guaranteed hours for those who want it. etc.

It would make a nice change if the tax loopholes were closed to stop the companies and people who can more than afford to pay there tax bill, rather than chasing a part time window cleaner or a semi pro musician who is probably losing money when all expenses are taken into account. It simply makes it look like the administration are doing something if they chase the little guy. What is being suggested looks like a step in the right direction to me.
[/quote]Playing devils advocate, if all the small time tax dodgers were added up it would probably be far bigger tax loss than what the likes of Starbucks and Amazon cost the exchequer, you're talking billions of pounds, that's why the Government hates cash, but it'll be a long time before people start paying the window cleaner in anything other than cash. Slightly different point, some pubs want to pay in cash because it costs them to bank money (not as much as paying by card costs them though), they like to get rid of it, hence cashback

[casapete]

There's something great about getting paid in readies at the end of the night after a pub gig. Still hate the
way some landlords make you wait for it though, leaving you hanging around whilst he cashes up etc. Why
most don't have it ready in an envelope for you I've no idea. Even worse if they count it out in front of a few
straggling punters.

With my other band we play mainly theatres. So many now work on a 30 day payment, with some even 60 day.
Don't really get this - they already have processed the payments ( and have had it in their accounts for weeks
before a lot of the time) so why the delay? It must be a deal breaker for some shows. ( Also don't even get me
started on ticket / credit card fees / stage crew ex's etc etc.....)

[BassBunny]

[quote name='grandad' timestamp='1499812586' post='3333864']
If I'd have bothered to keep proper accounts for gigging as a second income I reckon I would have received a refund when you think of everything you can claim for on expenses, all your gear, clothing, travel, paperwork, etc. A decent accountant can more than save you his annual fee. As has been said, the taxman probably realises that already.
[/quote]
Correct. I do indeed have a great accountant and have received a tax rebate every year since I employed him. It's only when you see the figures at the end of the year, of what it actually costs you to gig regularly, that you realise how much it costs to persue our "hobby".

[quote name='Adrenochrome' timestamp='1499846873' post='3333964']
For what it's worth people have submitted proper tax returns from doing weekend warrior pub gigs, and with all the deductable stuff the taxman ended up owing them. Taxman eventually said don't bother.
[/quote]
Which is exactly why you should bother.

Edited July 12, 2017 by BassBunny