blue Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 (edited) We will often see comments here on bass chat pushing the idea that punters don't notice the flaws in our shows. I recently saw 2 pro level shows, Ann Wilson from Heart & Peter Frampton. Both shows were outstanding. Production and the caliber of musicianship was outstanding. Do you think they got to that level of performance with a "punters can't tell the difference" attitude? My point, none of us should use this "punters can't tell the difference" as an excuse for "shoddy" performances. Blue Edited July 12, 2017 by blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 Agreed I'm not sure the punters would be able to tell you what makes the difference, but they'll certainly notice the difference between a decent band and a great band even if they can't put their finger on why. Les Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Bay Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 Hmmm, did theyngetbthere by worrying about every single tiny mistake and perfecting it, or did they get there by having a passion for what they did and living the moment flat out and loving it which came across to the audience who were more interested in the eneergy than a perfect display of musicianship. If I want perfect music I will watch an orchestra, I want a gig to be full of energy and hit me hard, if that means they make a mistake or two who cares? I won't notice as I am enjoying myself too much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanAxe Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 Very true. I think most people making the comment 'Punters don't know the difference' do so with a sense of exasperation - namely that all their efforts to hone their sound, their playing chops, and the tightness of their band, go unappreciated by cloth-eared drunkards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martthebass Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 I think it does depend on the instrument and what's being played when. Knowing how to cover up a gaff on the bass is part of the skill you learn. Making a mistake in a well known lead guitar solo is always going to be more obvious that making a mistake in a chugging 12 bar rhythm line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted July 12, 2017 Author Share Posted July 12, 2017 [quote name='Les' timestamp='1499886900' post='3334360'] Agreed I'm not sure the punters would be able to tell you what makes the difference, but they'll certainly notice the difference between a decent band and a great band even if they can't put their finger on why. Les [/quote] Exactly Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted July 12, 2017 Author Share Posted July 12, 2017 [quote name='T-Bay' timestamp='1499886984' post='3334362'] Hmmm, did theyngetbthere by worrying about every single tiny mistake and perfecting it, or did they get there by having a passion for what they did and living the moment flat out and loving it which came across to the audience who were more interested in the eneergy than a perfect display of musicianship. If I want perfect music I will watch an orchestra, I want a gig to be full of energy and hit me hard, if that means they make a mistake or two who cares? I won't notice as I am enjoying myself too much. [/quote] Believe me, you couldn't ask for more energy in either show. Energy plus flawless performances. I think they both got there on the same train. The "hard work" express. Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted July 12, 2017 Author Share Posted July 12, 2017 [quote name='JapanAxe' timestamp='1499887085' post='3334363'] Very true. I think most people making the comment 'Punters don't know the difference' do so with a sense of exasperation - namely that all their efforts to hone their sound, their playing chops, and the tightness of their band, go unappreciated by cloth-eared drunkards. [/quote] It's a slippery slope. How about the band that says,"Wow the crowd really loved us tonight" when you know your band played like crap. Then hey, why should we try to improve and move up a few levels? Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted July 12, 2017 Author Share Posted July 12, 2017 [quote name='martthebass' timestamp='1499887795' post='3334372'] I think it does depend on the instrument and what's being played when. Knowing how to cover up a gaff on the bass is part of the skill you learn. Making a mistake in a well known lead guitar solo is always going to be more obvious that making a mistake in a chugging 12 bar rhythm line. [/quote] I think your making my point. Peter and Ann did not get there by making excuses. It's what separates the men from the boys IMO. Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickeyboro Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 How many times pro bands I know have come off stage unhappy, yet the fans are delighted... Not sure what it means. Maybe they arent their own best judges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted July 12, 2017 Author Share Posted July 12, 2017 [quote name='Mickeyboro' timestamp='1499888811' post='3334381'] How many times pro bands I know have come off stage unhappy, yet the fans are delighted... Not sure what it means. Maybe they arent their own best judges. [/quote] Good topic for another thread. Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Bay Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 [quote name='blue' timestamp='1499888211' post='3334375'] Believe me, you couldn't ask for more energy in either show. Energy plus flawless performances. I think they both got there on the same train. The "hard work" express. Blue [/quote] Flawless or you didn't notice? I have watched back videos of some of our gigs and struggle to spot mistakes that I know I made. We are always our worst critics. I don't want to see prog rock style 'look at my masterful music' performances, the punk attitude appeals much more to me and some of the best gigs I have ever been to had their share of mistakes but who cares? Everyone is human. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted July 12, 2017 Author Share Posted July 12, 2017 [quote name='T-Bay' timestamp='1499889123' post='3334383'] Flawless or you didn't notice? [/quote] Flawless Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Froggy Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 I try to avoid telling my band this, especially ad we have a very critical guitarist. I do however tell them that even the pros make mistakes, and that what makes them pros is how they deal with them. It might be utter bull, but it seems to calm the guitarist a bit. This should however be taken with the caveat that we've only been together two months, and that it's my first band. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted July 12, 2017 Author Share Posted July 12, 2017 We have a local rock guitarist here Greg Koch, maybe you've heard of him. I've heard critical comments from other local guitarists, because they don't like like his "in your face" aggressive execution and style. https://youtu.be/jQQIT4SJHpY Greg also got to where he is on the "hard work express" Those other guitarist are on "excuse express" Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Bay Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 [quote name='blue' timestamp='1499889335' post='3334384'] Flawless Blue [/quote] So you could pick out every single note and beat in a complete set at one listening and you know it well enough to know that each and every one was spot on? Sorry but I just don't buy that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 [quote name='blue' timestamp='1499890543' post='3334391']... Greg also got to where he is on the "hard work express"... [/quote] Nah, he went by coach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted July 12, 2017 Author Share Posted July 12, 2017 [quote name='T-Bay' timestamp='1499890608' post='3334392'] So you could pick out every single note and beat in a complete set at one listening and you know it well enough to know that each and every one was spot on? Sorry but I just don't buy that. [/quote] That's fine. Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted July 12, 2017 Author Share Posted July 12, 2017 [quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1499891355' post='3334400'] Nah, he went by coach. [/quote] I just don't know Dad3353. Sometime I think "woodshedding" is a disipline of the past. Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrunoBass Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 It depends on the gig and the crowd. I would expect a high standard from a pro level 'name' act at a large festival, and so would the majority of the audience. That is their expectation. At the kind of gigs I play (pubs and bars to drunk Saturday night-ers) the occasional cock-up is not just tolerated, but hardly noticed. The average weekend pub crowd wants to hear and sing along to something they know. They're not demanding a virtuoso performance. I'm not saying that's right or wrong, it's just the way it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjones Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 I play with the same musicians in two different bands. The first band plays in bars, and our definition of a rehearsal is the guitarist and myself going through the chords to a new song, 5 mins before the gig starts. The second band plays festivals and ticketed venues and is a much more serious proposition. We actually rehearse new songs and decide a set list before the gig. It really does depend on you and your band's level of ambition. If you want to perform in professional venues for professional money, your band needs to put the work in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grangur Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 Mrs G and I went through a phase of going to pub gigs. We saw a fair mix of bands. I'm sure most of the acts we saw were if the opinion that what they did was good enough. Maybe it was good enough to get re-booked. Certainly nobody complained, but we both weren't impressed by many. So much so that we don't bother going anymore. So we're they good enough? I agree, the genre makes a difference. If it's punk or thrash-metal notes may not make a difference. But in all acts timing does matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el borracho Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 [quote name='blue' timestamp='1499890543' post='3334391'] We have a local rock guitarist here Greg Koch, maybe you've heard of him. I've heard critical comments from other local guitarists, because they don't like like his "in your face" aggressive execution and style. [url="https://youtu.be/jQQIT4SJHpY"]https://youtu.be/jQQIT4SJHpY[/url] Greg also got to where he is on the "hard work express" Those other guitarist are on "excuse express" Blue [/quote] I love his playing, particularly the Tone Controls stuff. I've probably never heard of the other local guitarists! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteb Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 (edited) [quote name='blue' timestamp='1499889335' post='3334384'] Flawless Blue [/quote] I very much doubt that no one in Framper’s band made a single mistake throughout the whole night, just that at that level the mistakes that they do make are harder to detect and that they recover from them with more composure than the average weekend warrior! If you have read Guy Pratt’s book you might have noted that when he was on the road with Pink Floyd, he and the keys player would stay up all night listening to tapes of the show earlier that evening picking out mistakes and trying to improve the performance for the next gig. This is of course when they weren’t chasing models, crashing hire cars, taking drugs with celebrities or amusing themselves at the expense of local dignitaries! What this suggests to me is that even players of that calibre do still make mistakes (even if no one else really notices) and that they constantly work to improve their performance. Edited July 12, 2017 by peteb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpondonBassed Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 [quote name='blue' timestamp='1499886624' post='3334357'] We will often see comments here on bass chat pushing the idea that punters don't notice the flaws in our shows. I recently saw 2 pro level shows, Ann Wilson from Heart & Peter Frampton. Both shows were outstanding. Production and the caliber of musicianship was outstanding. Do you think they got to that level of performance with a "punters can't tell the difference" attitude? My point, none of us should use this "punters can't tell the difference" as an excuse for "shoddy" performances. Blue [/quote] It's a bit like butter and margarine. For some people or punters as you put it, nothing short of virtuosity is worth paying to attend. They'll listen, criticise then move on looking for what they perceive to be [i]the real thing[/i]. Others are merely looking for a social lubricant in the form of live music. They take what's dished out and consume it with passion. I'd say they're an inspiration to any musician starting out, frankly. There is a thriving market for both sorts of bands fortunately. It's a small point but I think the word punter implies the sort of consumer who takes a gamble that the entertainment will be good enough to keep them happy. That would only be a small slice out of the live music consumer pie. I believe that the major group of these consumers will have an idea of what they are about to see when they go to a venue. As regards entertainment a night out is nothing like a gamble for them. I know from your descriptions that this is not how it's done so much in your neck of the woods however. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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