blue Posted July 12, 2017 Author Share Posted July 12, 2017 [quote name='PaulGibsonBass' timestamp='1499892658' post='3334416'] It depends on the gig and the crowd. I would expect a high standard from a pro level 'name' act at a large festival, and so would the majority of the audience. That is their expectation. At the kind of gigs I play (pubs and bars to drunk Saturday night-ers) the occasional cock-up is not just tolerated, but hardly noticed. The average weekend pub crowd wants to hear and sing along to something they know. They're not demanding a virtuoso performance. I'm not saying that's right or wrong, it's just the way it is. [/quote] You make a good point Paul. However, I think young serious rock musicians usually start out playing clubs and bars. I'm not sure it's a good idea to set your standard by what punters accept. My point here is don't set your standards by the low standards of a pub crowd. Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted July 12, 2017 Author Share Posted July 12, 2017 (edited) [quote name='peteb' timestamp='1499900262' post='3334461'] I very much doubt that no one in Framper’s band made a single mistake throughout the whole night, just that at that level the mistakes that they do make are harder to detect and that they recover from them with more composure than the average weekend warrior! If you have read Guy Pratt’s book you might have noted that when he was on the road with Pink Floyd, he and the keys player would stay up all night listening to tapes of the show earlier that evening picking out mistakes and trying to improve the performance for the next gig. This is of course when they weren’t chasing models, crashing hire cars, taking drugs with celebrities or amusing themselves at the expense of local dignitaries! What this suggests to me is that even players of that calibre do still make mistakes (even if no one else really notices) and that they constantly work to improve their performance. [/quote] Gotcha Pete, I tend to be a bit provocative to make my points. I think I shared my story about the The Stones when they played Milwaukee 2 years ago and completely blew the intro to "Honky Tonk Women". And it was Mick that actually got them through it. Blue Edited July 13, 2017 by blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpondonBassed Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 (edited) [quote name='blue' timestamp='1499891877' post='3334404'] ...Sometime I think "woodshedding" is a disipline of the past. Blue [/quote] l take personal issue with that statement simply because I am unable to do other than woodshed at the moment. Maybe because I am such a late "born again" returnee to the band thing or maybe because of any one of many things I keep getting false starts but I have to make use of the idle time by going back in my shed, as it were, else I'll stagnate. When idle (no gigs played or booked for, say, six months) It's got to be the same for those with better ability than mine... maybe more so. By the way, I have a modest but comfortable woodshed, relatively speaking as it is really a double glazed workshop. Not everyone lives with access to one. I read about bassists living in flats, apartments, tenements and the like who will never have the luxury of a family free space where you can play amplified and not be a nuisance to neighbours. I have no fear of carrying on, playing for my own pleasure, if it comes to it but I'd miss out on the ensemble stuff and I [i]miss[/i] that. There is only so much you can practice on your own unless you are one of those driven individuals that I can always admire but never quite relate to. Edited July 13, 2017 by SpondonBassed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahpook Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 I've seen people saying that punters won't notice the difference when it comes to getting basslines the same as the original in covers bands. I've never seen anyone say that about the performance aspect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 People [i]do[/i] notice, if you make them. Tonight's gig was a blues rock trio and the drummer and me got a lot of handshakes for being a "great" rhythm section. We made people notice. Even if an audience doesn't cotton on, the band will know. The very least you have to do is make the band glad you're playing with them and not someone else. Most of my gigs in the last 30 years have come from band leaders seeing me play so there's another great reason to always put 100% effort into every note you play on stage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted July 13, 2017 Author Share Posted July 13, 2017 [quote name='SpondonBassed' timestamp='1499902215' post='3334472'] By the way, I have a modest but comfortable woodshed, relatively speaking as it is really a double glazed workshop. Not everyone lives with access to one. I read about bassists living in flats, apartments, tenements and the like who will never have the luxury of a family free space where you can play amplified and not be a nuisance to neighbours[/quote] Granted, I answer to no one, my time is my in. I play when ever I feel like it. I don't practice with an amp. I pick up a bass and use my phone to learn songs, partake in a tutorial or just practice scale application s using my phone as a metronome. Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmccombe7 Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 I've seen many top bands and they've made mistakes but they continue with confidence and majority of non-musicians don't notice. Those that do notice are usually musicians. Rush being a god example. All at the top of their game for bass, guitar and drums but i've heard them all make the occasional mistake or with Niel his kit didn't work as it should have and he improvised best he could. Crowd probably didn't know what was coming and therefore didn't recognise that as a mistake and just thought it was his performance for that night. For me i like to rehearse to a oint i know the songs inside out and can play them without thinking too much about the songs and that way i can relax and enjoy the show more. Short notice gigs where not enough prep i sometimes make a mistake or i'm too busy concentrating to "enjoy" the show as much as i would like. I like to to think that our band aims for perfection but doesn't always achieve it on every night. We set perfection as a target tho. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmccombe7 Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 [quote name='blue' timestamp='1499890543' post='3334391'] We have a local rock guitarist here Greg Koch, maybe you've heard of him. I've heard critical comments from other local guitarists, because they don't like like his "in your face" aggressive execution and style. [url="https://youtu.be/jQQIT4SJHpY"]https://youtu.be/jQQIT4SJHpY[/url] Greg also got to where he is on the "hard work express" Those other guitarist are on "excuse express" Blue [/quote] Now he's mighty impressive. Nice. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazzbass Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 SO true ! I learnt early on to treat a small crowd of 5 people like they were A&R guys..........coz one of them WAS an A&R guy. He left a note for our alcoholic guitarist singer songwriter to give up the booze then ring him. He never did, died of pancreatitis three years later Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpondonBassed Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 [quote name='blue' timestamp='1499909202' post='3334479'] Granted, I answer to no one, my time is my in. I play when ever I feel like it. [/quote] Then you and I are the lucky ones. Time is a rare commodity for most. For those with young families, forget it. Your time will not be your own ever again. Unless you have a job in a timber merchant's where you can use their wood shed during lunch break talking about the merits of woodshed is a moot point! My time was not my own due to old family responsibilities until recently. Now I have no one to answer to. It is all down to me. No longer can I avoid exercise, practice and extending my repertoire with the excuse that someone else's priorities are restraining me. If I'm honest, it's scary but at least it is [i]real[/i]. [quote name='blue' timestamp='1499909202' post='3334479'] I don't practice with an amp. I pick up a bass and use my phone to learn songs, partake in a tutorial or just practice scale application s using my phone as a metronome. Blue [/quote] I think I must have a tendency towards claustrophobia because I find it a struggle to practice with 'phones or looking at stuff on tiny screens made for children and the wee folk in general. I am fortunate to have alternatives. Just as an aside; Did your festival spot as support for Frampton boost your personal ambition? You seem to have refocussed somewhat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpondonBassed Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 [quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1499908530' post='3334478'] People [i]do[/i] notice, if you make them. Tonight's gig was a blues rock trio and the drummer and me got a lot of handshakes for being a "great" rhythm section. We made people notice. Even if an audience doesn't cotton on, the band will know. The very least you have to do is make the band glad you're playing with them and not someone else. Most of my gigs in the last 30 years have come from band leaders seeing me play so there's another great reason to always put 100% effort into every note you play on stage. [/quote] That's the sort of [i]take charge[/i] attitude that I like. When you commit like that, even your mistakes become more musical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpondonBassed Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 [quote name='hiram.k.hackenbacker' timestamp='1499924176' post='3334491'] I'm not sure I understand the view that the only people that will notice are probably musicians anyway, so it doesn't matter. Surely they are the people we aim to impress, aren't they? [/quote] I see your point but I do not subscribe to an us and them concept so much. It's a black and white view of things and I paid for a colour licence. When successful working musicians are earning what bands do they choose to see for themselves in their time off? I suppose it must be like the old busman's holiday sometimes - difficult to appreciate because you do for a living what most others do for leisure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted July 13, 2017 Author Share Posted July 13, 2017 (edited) [quote name='SpondonBassed' timestamp='1499928502' post='3334510'] Then you and I are the lucky ones. Time is a rare commodity for most. For those with young families, forget it. Your time will not be your own ever again. Unless you have a job in a timber merchant's where you can use their wood shed during lunch break talking about the merits of woodshed is a moot point! My time was not my own due to old family responsibilities until recently. Now I have no one to answer to. It is all down to me. No longer can I avoid exercise, practice and extending my repertoire with the excuse that someone else's priorities are restraining me. If I'm honest, it's scary but at least it is [i]real[/i]. I think I must have a tendency towards claustrophobia because I find it a struggle to practice with 'phones or looking at stuff on tiny screens made for children and the wee folk in general. I am fortunate to have alternatives. Just as an aside; Did your festival spot as support for Frampton boost your personal ambition? You seem to have refocussed somewhat. [/quote] 1. It's merely a YouTube clip giving me a click at 140bpm. I'm not distracted and I'm not looking at a screen. And tutorials are not for everyone 2. No boost of any kind. I didn't think we were very good. As a matter of fact I don't think we should be playing those types if gigs. Blue Edited July 13, 2017 by blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NancyJohnson Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 (edited) In answer to the OP, I'm not a fan of either but aren't they simply at a point in their career where they're accomplished enough, well enough rehearsed and more importantly it doesn't matter if there's the odd f*** up? People will come and unless they know every note, they won't know the difference. Frampton could probably pull a bum note, laugh and no one would care really. This isn't Dream Theater my friend, where the fans are rabid enought to actually write to the guitarist critiquing his work from past gigs going, 'Maaan, last night you played the solo in [insert song title here] in mixolydian rather than petatonic and you dropped a Bb in instead of C# at the start of 'Pull Me Under'. Edited July 13, 2017 by NancyJohnson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpondonBassed Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 [quote name='blue' timestamp='1499929952' post='3334524'] 1. It's merely a YouTube clip giving me a click at 140bpm. I'm not distracted and I'm not looking at a screen. And tutorials are not for everyone 2. No boost of any kind. I didn't think we were very good. As a matter of fact I don't think we should be playing those types if gigs. Blue [/quote] Yes. I just use an urban elf. Sorry, that should have read [i]metro gnome[/i]. I'm surprised by your second response. Why do you say that? Is it just self criticism or were comments made? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted July 13, 2017 Author Share Posted July 13, 2017 (edited) [quote name='SpondonBassed' timestamp='1499930771' post='3334530'] I'm surprised by your second response. Why do you say that? Is it just self criticism or were comments made? [/quote] It's a "I didn't think we were very good. As a matter of fact I don't think we she be playing those kind of gigs" Blue Edited July 13, 2017 by blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted July 13, 2017 Author Share Posted July 13, 2017 [quote name='NancyJohnson' timestamp='1499930422' post='3334528'] This isn't Dream Theater my friend. [/quote] What's Dream Theater? Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earbrass Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 [quote name='blue' timestamp='1499933595' post='3334546'] What's Dream Theater? [/quote] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OaUbq3fghWQ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 [quote name='blue' timestamp='1499933595' post='3334546'] What's Dream Theater? ... [/quote] [url="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dream_Theater"]Wikipedia: Dream Theatre ...[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted July 13, 2017 Author Share Posted July 13, 2017 [quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1499934496' post='3334554'] [url="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dream_Theater"]Wikipedia: Dream Theatre ...[/url] [/quote] Oh yeah, I've heard about this stuff. However, I'm not clear on what Nancy's point is? Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivansc Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 I wish more of the gigging musicians I see accepted that they are there to ENTERTAIN the punters. If you arent grabbing their attention you arent really doing your job, so it is not going to have much impact on the crowd if you DO drop a few clunkers. However, if as Blue says you are comitted to what you are doing, you WILL be entertaining the crowd. The audience arent likely to be able to put a finger on any errors, but they will generally notice something went adrift, but only IF you have their attention in the first place. If you are playing live performance is everything, but it will only be as good as the time you put into making it asppear effortlesdsd in the first place. I have done several gigs recently with pickup bands and only ONE of them really nailed it. The one with the most accomplished players, who had also worked together a lot in the past. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivansc Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 [quote name='blue' timestamp='1499935039' post='3334559'] Oh yeah, I've heard about this stuff. However, I'm not clear on what Nancy's point is? Blue [/quote] (grin) he is shocked and horrified that you never really heard much about this niche band. Me neither... apparently the guitar player widdles really well though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Japhet Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 2 gigs I went to see many years ago stand out for me on this subject. First one: Buddy Guy. He made loads of mistakes but put on such an entertaining show. Lots of banter with the audience and put everything into being entertaining. Second one; Robert Cray Band. Faultless but soulless performance which left feeling like I could have simply listened to the CD. I'm OK with mistakes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yank Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 Through the years, I've noticed that some musicians seem to stagnate at the level that they're good enough to get a gig, but don't put in the effort to improve beyond that. They've reached their personal pinnacle. Others will always strive to improve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted July 13, 2017 Author Share Posted July 13, 2017 [quote name='ivansc' timestamp='1499935328' post='3334563'] I wish more of the gigging musicians I see accepted that they are there to ENTERTAIN the punters. If you arent grabbing their attention you arent really doing your job, so it is not going to have much impact on the crowd if you DO drop a few clunkers. However, if as Blue says you are comitted to what you are doing, you WILL be entertaining the crowd. The audience arent likely to be able to put a finger on any errors, but they will generally notice something went adrift, but only IF you have their attention in the first place. If you are playing live performance is everything, but it will only be as good as the time you put into making it asppear effortlesdsd in the first place. I have done several gigs recently with pickup bands and only ONE of them really nailed it. The one with the most accomplished players, who had also worked together a lot in the past. [/quote] I think my thread title is confusing. My point is, pros like Dream Theater, Peter Frampton or Ann Wilson didn't get to that high performance level by adopting a "punters can't tell the difference" attitude or approach to their careers. Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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