Punters Don't Know The Difference

[dmccombe7]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1500041779' post='3335318']
Yes. But the experience is cumulated. In my case it's sporadic but over several years. For a pro I would expect that experience to be gained quickly in a few years.

I think it's more about how you approach your playing.

If you join a covers band and stay in that band for years playing with the same musicians concentrating on exact facsimiles of tunes, never having a lesson, you're not going to develop much.

Go to college for 3 years and you'd come out with far more experience and knowledge than I have.

We also talk about developing big ears.

That's listening to lots of different types of music and being able to hear where tunes are going. I.e. Knowing what and where the chord changes are going to be.

There are people who are open to music and new ideas and there are people who have very closed minds.

Really what I'm saying is that Pro's and more experienced musicians have a massive tool kit and make it look easy, and to some extent it does become extremely easy. There is still the occasional tune that requires a lot of work.

Hit me with your Rhythm stick is a tune I have to learn. I've always shied away from learning it. I'm expecting it to take a while (maybe an hour or two?) to transpose and get the right feel. But now I have reason and an excuse to learn it. That's one reason why changing bands often is quite an important driver for me.
[/quote]

Think this totally sums it all up for me.
Explains it all in my opinion.

Dave

[blue]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1500041779' post='3335318']


Yes. But the experience is cumulated. In my case it's sporadic but over several years. For a pro I would expect that experience to be gained quickly in a few years. [/quote]

Experience is a great topic for discussion.

I have 50 years of experience. 50 years of the same limited experience.

I have;

1.No travel or tour experience

2.No high level contract negotiation experience

3.No experience making sure band members
have the proper passports and visas and no records with the authorities (felons)

4.No band management experience

5.No recording or video experience

6.Very little experience playing with really good musicians.

7. A lot of experience standing in an inch of piss for 4 hours and getting home at 3:00 in the morning.

Blue

Edited July 14, 2017 by blue

[dmccombe7]

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1500062599' post='3335470']
Experience is a great topic for discussion.

I have 50 years of experience. 50 years of the same limited experience.

I have;

1.No travel or tour experience

2.No high level contract negotiation experience

3.No experience making sure band members
have the proper passports and visas and no records with the authorities (felons)

4.No band management experience

5.No recording or video experience

6.Very little experience playing with really good musicians.

7. A lot of experience standing in an inch of piss for 4 hours and getting home at 3:00 in the morning.

Blue
[/quote]

But how many gigs have you played. That counts as a lot of valuable experience. Many musicians i know that play regularly have that confident attitude that has been gained over many years and playing many gigs. I knew them when they were far younger and they were never as confident as they are now.
Maybe age has provided that confidence but think its more to do with their gigging experience.
I don't believe they have improved on a technical level as they are still playing same style of music, same songs, same routine riffs that they played years ago but they now do it far more confidently giving an aire of professionalism IMO.

Dave

[T-Bay]

Confidence is a weird one though, I don't suffer nerves particularly, in fact barely at all and never have. I know a guy who is a truly truly amazing musician of the rare gifted variety. He rarely plays in public because he suffers from horrendous nerves before any performance which ruin his enjoyment. I find it tragic that someone so brilliant has this one thing that prevents him being able to do what he enjoys most. He works in music every day and it pays his bills but he would love to be able to cure his nerves. I have always taken the attitude to everything in life that you do your best and who cares what others think, I know he is very self conscious and terrified of making mistakes which no one else would even notice.

[blue]

[quote name='T-Bay' timestamp='1500065552' post='3335488']
Confidence is a weird one though, I don't suffer nerves particularly, in fact barely at all and never have. I know a guy who is a truly truly amazing musician of the rare gifted variety. He rarely plays in public because he suffers from horrendous nerves before any performance which ruin his enjoyment. I find it tragic that someone so brilliant has this one thing that prevents him being able to do what he enjoys most. He works in music every day and it pays his bills but he would love to be able to cure his nerves. I have always taken the attitude to everything in life that you do your best and who cares what others think, I know he is very self conscious and terrified of making mistakes which no one else would even notice.
[/quote]

That's a really unfortunate circumstances.

I thought I was going to be nervous to the point of having an anxiety attack at that Frampton gig.

However once I got back stage I was like "C'mon, let's get on with this"

Blue

[blue]

[quote name='dmccombe7' timestamp='1500063615' post='3335476']


But how many gigs have you played. That counts as a lot of valuable experience. Many musicians i know that play regularly have that confident attitude that has been gained over many years and playing many gigs. I knew them when they were far younger and they were never as confident as they are now.
Maybe age has provided that confidence but think its more to do with their gigging experience.
I don't believe they have improved on a technical level as they are still playing same style of music, same songs, same routine riffs that they played years ago but they now do it far more confidently giving an aire of professionalism IMO.

Dave
[/quote]

I'm lucky that I'm gigging every weekend. However, the thing with experience is, what type of experience. I just wish my experience was more diverse. It's like how many times can you read the same book.

I know, I'm lucky I have gigs. I was looking at Bass Players Wanted on Millwaukee Rocks last night. The page was empty, not one ad had been placed.

Blue

[uncle psychosis]

Some extremely disingenuous interpretations of the context that "the punters don't notice the difference" is used in.

The punters don't notice if you're using a flanger instead of a chorus. They don't notice if you play a slightly different line to what's on the record. Nobody has ever claimed that the punters don't notice the difference between a good performance and a bad one. Stop making stuff up just to troll the site (again).

[blue]

[quote name='uncle psychosis' timestamp='1500076044' post='3335539']
Some extremely disingenuous interpretations of the context that "the punters don't notice the difference" is used in.

The punters don't notice if you're using a flanger instead of a chorus. They don't notice if you play a slightly different line to what's on the record. Nobody has ever claimed that the punters don't notice the difference between a good performance and a bad one. Stop making stuff up just to troll the site (again).
[/quote]


The thread is about not using punters response to a performance as an excuse for shoddy performance.

The thread is not about what punters notice or don't notice. It's clearly articulated in my thread opening.


And I don't see any trolling anywhere it from anyone in this post.

Blue

Edited July 15, 2017 by blue

[SpondonBassed]

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1499988529' post='3335043']
...It will be tough for young guys in bands with guys that have the ability but are just plain lazy. I'm sure a few of you have been through that. Very frustrating.

Blue
[/quote]

I am not claiming to be a young man but I have had that very experience in the last couple of years for myself.

I had a session with a guitar playing keyboardist who sang. We jammed in his kitchen and he insisted on me piggybacking on his Fender combo because it had a larger cone than my combo! He started to patronise me a bit when I offered resistance to the notion and I let it slide but he said a few more things that made me think [i]he's capable of better than what I'm hearing[/i].

I managed not to loose my temper with him but my patience ran out after about 45 minutes of pure bull-feathers and fluff about how great his MIDI skills are.

Prat. I hope he finds success on his own level though. He wasn't a nasty person, just a bit half-ars3d.

[SpondonBassed]

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1499988802' post='3335044']
...Seriously, am I the only bass chatter that us in this for the money. And why does it seem like not being in it for the money is some sort of badge of honor?

Blue
[/quote]

I have only been here for a little over a year but I think you are perhaps the only BCer who likes to bring up the fact that you are in it for the money quite so much. There are many more here who don't feel they have to.

I am still wondering why you felt your band should not be doing gigs like the support spot for Frampton at your last festival. I mean, you said;
[i]"No boost of any kind. I didn't think we were very good. As a matter of fact I don't think we should be playing those types if gigs." (sic)[/i]

Do you think the punters noticed?

I am puzzled by the statement because I'd have thought, even for a one off, it's a feather in your cap as a bassist. I can understand if you feel your band should be headlining. That's natural ambition. Otherwise I fail to see why you said what you said unless it is that you don't like playing festivals and you only happened to mention it after playing the last one...?

Treat this as rhetoric if you want. I wont probe any further as this is clearly a personal issue you have about the gig.

[SpondonBassed]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1500041779' post='3335318']
...We also talk about developing big ears.
[/quote]

[attachment=249090:BigEars.png]
I resemble that remark!

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1500041779' post='3335318']
That's listening to lots of different types of music and being able to hear where tunes are going. I.e. Knowing what and where the chord changes are going to be.

There are people who are open to music and new ideas and there are people who have very closed minds.

Really what I'm saying is that Pro's and more experienced musicians have a massive tool kit and make it look easy, and to some extent it does become extremely easy. There is still the occasional tune that requires a lot of work.

Hit me with your Rhythm stick is a tune I have to learn. I've always shied away from learning it. I'm expecting it to take a while (maybe an hour or two?) to transpose and get the right feel. But now I have reason and an excuse to learn it. That's one reason why changing bands often is quite an important driver for me.
[/quote]

You are right. I had a very limited selection of music that I wanted to play until I started to be less self indulgent in what I listened to. I started to broaden my taste as a consequence just by getting out of a rut of my own making.

Rhythm Stick? I know it. I can crawl through it with a degree of accuracy and sometimes feeling but I can't yet nail it. I like to have a good old go at it at it for exercise and then leave it for a while. Every time I come back to it it seems to benefit from the interval where I play anything [i]but[/i] Rhythm Stick. I'll never be another Norman Watt Roy but I will get topside of that tune one day.

It's good to have goals.

Oh, and by the way, I actually do resemble Big Ears these days. When I copied the image above I realised that I was the butt of that quip more than anyone else.

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1500072111' post='3335522']
I'm lucky that I'm gigging every weekend. However, the thing with experience is, what type of experience. I just wish my experience was more diverse. It's like how many times can you read the same book.

I know, I'm lucky I have gigs. I was looking at Bass Players Wanted on Millwaukee Rocks last night. The page was empty, not one ad had been placed.

Blue
[/quote]

Next opportunity you get, book a busman's holiday for a fortnight playing Open Mic nights and jams over here my friend. That'll be different enough for you. It may help you with your perspective on things.

Seriously. It'd be a good old laugh if nothing else. I'd even lend you a guitar and combo if you wanted. There must be other multi instrumentalist members in the East Midlands who'd get involved in a pop-up band for the duration...? As I only play bass, I'd be happy to roadie and be involved as required elsewhere like BVs or something.

Just an idea.

[TimR]

Ah yes. Rhythm stick isn't a personal goal, it's a requirement for the dep gig! Help!

[SpondonBassed]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1500102593' post='3335586']
Ah yes. Rhythm stick isn't a personal goal, it's a requirement for the dep gig! Help!
[/quote]

I understand your anxiety. Especially when you say a band should have most pop tunes up and running in 15 to 20 minutes or so...

Break legs my friend, it's a worthy challenge, that tune.

[blue]

[quote name='SpondonBassed' timestamp='1500098800' post='3335568']


I have only been here for a little over a year but I think you are perhaps the only BCer who likes to bring up the fact that you are in it for the money quite so much. There are many more here who don't feel they have to.

I am still wondering why you felt your band should not be doing gigs like the support spot for Frampton at your last festival. I mean, you said;
[i]"No boost of any kind. I didn't think we were very good. As a matter of fact I don't think we should be playing those types if gigs." (sic)[/i]

Do you think the punters noticed?

I am puzzled by the statement because I'd have thought, even for a one off, it's a feather in your cap as a bassist. I can understand if you feel your band should be headlining. That's natural ambition. Otherwise I fail to see why you said what you said unless it is that you don't like playing festivals and you only happened to mention it after playing the last one...?

Treat this as rhetoric if you want. I wont probe any further as this is clearly a personal issue you have about the gig.
[/quote]

It was a very cool slot and hard to get.

To answer your question, I indicated I didn't think we were very good. I think there are bands more deserving of that kind of gig than us.

Blue

[blue]

[quote name='SpondonBassed' timestamp='1500102054' post='3335580']


[attachment=249090:BigEars.png]
I resemble that remark!



You are right. I had a very limited selection of music that I wanted to play until I started to be less self indulgent in what I listened to. I started to broaden my taste as a consequence just by getting out of a rut of my own making.

Rhythm Stick? I know it. I can crawl through it with a degree of accuracy and sometimes feeling but I can't yet nail it. I like to have a good old go at it at it for exercise and then leave it for a while. Every time I come back to it it seems to benefit from the interval where I play anything [i]but[/i] Rhythm Stick. I'll never be another Norman Watt Roy but I will get topside of that tune one day.

It's good to have goals.

Oh, and by the way, I actually do resemble Big Ears these days. When I copied the image above I realised that I was the butt of that quip more than anyone else.



Next opportunity you get, book a busman's holiday for a fortnight playing Open Mic nights and jams over here my friend. That'll be different enough for you. It may help you with your perspective on things.

Seriously. It'd be a good old laugh if nothing else. I'd even lend you a guitar and combo if you wanted. There must be other multi instrumentalist members in the East Midlands who'd get involved in a pop-up band for the duration...? As I only play bass, I'd be happy to roadie and be involved as required elsewhere like BVs or something.

Just an idea.
[/quote]

Playing anywhere in England would be a big deal for me

Blue

[T-Bay]

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1500107356' post='3335624']


It was a very cool slot and hard to get.

To answer your question, I indicated I didn't think we were very good. I think there are bands more deserving of that kind of gig than us.

Blue
[/quote]
Did the punters enjoy your bit? If the answer is yes, then coupled with your reply you have the answer. The whole performance is much more than a sum of its parts.

[blue]

[quote name='SpondonBassed' timestamp='1500098800' post='3335568']


I have only been here for a little over a year but I think you are perhaps the only BCer who likes to bring up the fact that you are in it for the money quite so much.
[/quote]

No more than others bring up they're not in it for the money.

Blue

[blue]

[quote name='T-Bay' timestamp='1500107717' post='3335630']

Did the punters enjoy your bit? If the answer is yes, then coupled with your reply you have the answer. The whole performance is much more than a sum of its parts.[/quote]

I think most of us here can sense and feel when we have engaged a crowd, be it large festival or small bar.

I didn't feel it.

Blue

[T-Bay]

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1500108166' post='3335636']


I think most of us here can sense and feel when we have engaged a crowd, be it large festival or small bar.

I didn't feel it.

Blue
[/quote]
That may be support act syndrome though, I have seen some brilliant support acts where the majority of the crowd just don't even bother listening because it isn't who they came to see so the support act just don't get the atmosphere no matter what they do. It's sad when people are so blinkered. Some of my favourite bands are ones I saw as supports acts first.

And if you ever wanted to come over here I am sure that between us all on BC we could get you a good few gigs. I know a few places locally who I am sure would have you play.

Edited July 15, 2017 by T-Bay

[Trueno]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1500102593' post='3335586']
Ah yes. Rhythm stick isn't a personal goal, it's a requirement for the dep gig! Help!
[/quote]

Best of luck with that... we all love Rhythm Stick... heh! heh!

[TimR]

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1500107855' post='3335634']


No more than others bring up they're not in it for the money.

Blue
[/quote]

It's not a personal thing Blue, it's a cultural thing.

[dmccombe7]

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1500079207' post='3335548']
The thread is about not using punters response to a performance as an excuse for shoddy performance.

The thread is not about what punters notice or don't notice. It's clearly articulated in my thread opening.


And I don't see any trolling anywhere it from anyone in this post.

Blue
[/quote]

Exactly and i'm enjoying the thread.
Not sure why the negativity on an interesting thread ?
If someone doesn't like the post then don't read it.

Dave

[quote name='SpondonBassed' timestamp='1500102054' post='3335580']

Next opportunity you get, book a busman's holiday for a fortnight playing Open Mic nights and jams over here my friend. That'll be different enough for you. It may help you with your perspective on things.

Seriously. It'd be a good old laugh if nothing else. I'd even lend you a guitar and combo if you wanted. There must be other multi instrumentalist members in the East Midlands who'd get involved in a pop-up band for the duration...? As I only play bass, I'd be happy to roadie and be involved as required elsewhere like BVs or something.

Just an idea.
[/quote]

I like that idea. I would come along just to say hello to people i know thru BC and have a bit of a laugh.

Dave

[dmccombe7]

[quote name='T-Bay' timestamp='1500109180' post='3335646']
That may be support act syndrome though, I have seen some brilliant support acts where the majority of the crowd just don't even bother listening because it isn't who they came to see so the support act just don't get the atmosphere no matter what they do. It's sad when people are so blinkered. Some of my favourite bands are ones I saw as supports acts first.

And if you ever wanted to come over here I am sure that between us all on BC we could get you a good few gigs. I know a few places locally who I am sure would have you play.
[/quote]

UK Tour on the cards Blue

Dave

[dmccombe7]

[quote name='Trueno' timestamp='1500109262' post='3335648']
Best of luck with that... we all love Rhythm Stick... heh! heh!
[/quote]

Never tried it altho i appreciate the bassline. Think its time to have a go tho.

Dave

[T-Bay]

[quote name='dmccombe7' timestamp='1500112858' post='3335674']


UK Tour on the cards Blue

Dave
[/quote]
He did say he would like to, it would only be polite for us to help out :-)