Alternative to my Barefaced Super Twin?

[Sammybass]

Hello all - I'm hoping someone can give me some advice.

I currently run a TC Electronic BH800 into a Barefaced Super Twin. I love the amp, and at 4 ohms I get the full juice which is great as I play in quite a loud rock covers band. For some time though, I've been missing a bit of 'zing' that I think the Super Twin might be lacking. I play a Precision which punches through the mix brilliantly, but I find my Jazz gets lost in rehearsals.

What clinched it recently was when we played a small festival last weekend. I had to play through an old Trace Elliot 4x10 combo and it sounded.....AMAZING!! Really punchy and gritty (and more hi-fi at the same time) and the band (and me) totally loved it!

So my question is - what do I do? I'm sure that at a year old, I can probably sell my Super Twin for a decent amount (they're £900 delivered). So do I need to go back to a 4x10?

What I love about the Barefaced...

It's really loud
It's really light
It's not too big (fits into the back of my Mini easily)
It's 4ohms so gets the most from my amp

Can anyone give me any advice? I don't really want to go back to heavy 4x10's

Thanks, Sam

[Cuzzie]

Is it the Supertwin or is it the amp?

Much as you love it may not be powering out the right signal for your band mix.

If you can try some different heads through the Twin, and then the other way, try the head through different cabs, it's the only way to know, granted you'll get most of your beans back, but it would be a shame to change if it was not needed.

Maybe a pre-ampmpedal to change your sound up is also a consideration

[chris_b]

I'd say the clue is that the P bass "punches through the mix brilliantly" using your rig and then the J doesn't.

If you get a problem always start by looking at what just changed. In this case it's the Jazz.

What Jazz is it, what pickup does it have, is there a preamp, what strings are you using and how do you EQ it.

Then again, what is the rehearsal space like? Small box room with everyone playing at "big stage" volumes? Does the jazz get lost on a gig?

I use an Aguilar TH500 through 2 Super Compacts, which is the modular version of your cab. I don't even change the EQ when I switch from a P bass to a Jazz and they both sound huge.

[Muzz]

Trace heads can be had cheap (if you can't borrow one), it might be an idea to try one through the Super Twin. You can always move it on if you don't like it.

Then again, if your Precision punches but your jazz doesn't, it's hardly gonna be the cab...

[Cuzzie]

Agree with the above.

Especially looking at pick ups.

My P punches more than my jazz
My Jazz likes my pre amp pedals more than my P and I can mould the sound more to get what I want and something different which then has presence of its own without EQing the amp, but by modulating before.
The p does not need this, but each bass is good in its own right.

Take Sandberg's as an example, you want HI-Fi sound you get it with Delano's, you want something more vintage use the in house sandberg pups.
The you can also start talking about Lindy fralins, Nordy's etc.

There is only slight coloration with a Supertwin, not a lot so it will burp out what you feed it.

[CameronJ]

Adding my 2p worth, and following on from what has already been said...

The super twin isn't particularly coloured, neither is the BH800 (I own one myself) so chances are the tone you're hearing is predominantly the bass itself. It seems the precision sounds just fine whereas the jazz isn't quite right to your ears - my suggestion is simply not to be afraid of turning knobs. Whether on the amp head or on the bass. It might even be worth getting a preamp pedal with the EQ dialled in fine tuned to get the J sounding how you want. Then just stomp the EQ on/off when switching basses. I'd use my MXR m81 preamp pedal for this exact purpose. Ultimately, in my opinion, knobs are there to be turned so explore what's possible.

[Roland Rock]

Did the Trace cab have a tweeter? Maybe that's the zing you liked the sound of.

Edited July 20, 2017 by Roland Rock

[Lozz196]

TE amps/cabs/combos have a certain colour to the sound that really does punch through, tight and focused but really slams through, probably an upper-mid boost. I`ve also found that the older heavyweight cabs seem to do this much more than the lighter modern ones, having had both but also having had to admit that I can`t manage the older heavyweights anymore.

[cheddatom]

if you want more treble, have you tried turning down the bass EQ on your amp?

[bassmayhem]

Don't change cab - do something in the beginning of the chain! A nice preamp with two channels is the trick, for example the EBS MicroBass II or the RMI Basswitch. Then you can sculpt and form the tone independently, or at least let the P-bass pass through untouched and tweak the J-bass to your liking. You never told if you tried the P-bass in the TE-rig;had you done that, you'd have more to compare with. I am a J-bass guy from ground up, and I always have to tweak a bit to get the J as potent as the P...

[Sammybass]

Thanks for the replies - very interesting reading.

To clarify:
[list]
[*]I've tried the TC head with a couple of other tweetered cabs and I think that's what I'm missing.
[*]Both my P and J basses are fitted with SD Quarterpounders.
[*]The Super Twin's usable frequency range is 37Hz - 4kHz - is this why I'm not getting the 'zing' I'm looking for? The super Midget goes up to 20kHz - will this make a difference?
[/list]

[Japhet]

I'd just mention that playing on a raised stage, which I presume was the case at your festival, can often add a lot of clout to your on stage sound (at least, it does in my experience).

[cheddatom]

[quote name='Sammybass' timestamp='1500537202' post='3338477']
Thanks for the replies - very interesting reading.

To clarify:[list]
[*]I've tried the TC head with a couple of other tweetered cabs and I think that's what I'm missing.
[*]Both my P and J basses are fitted with SD Quarterpounders.
[*]The Super Twin's usable frequency range is 37Hz - 4kHz - is this why I'm not getting the 'zing' I'm looking for? The super Midget goes up to 20kHz - will this make a difference?
[/list]
[/quote]

Yes, you must be missing the top end. "Zing" for me is anywhere from 3.5KHz up, often 5 or 6KHz, so if they quote response up to 4KHz that'll be the problem

I don't know if a tweeter is what you need but you definitely want more high frequencies available to you from your cab

[chris_b]

You said the P was great, presumably without "zing" and the J got lost in the mix, but that's a different problem to wanting more "zing" and a tweeter. If you're lost in the mix that's a problem with the mids not the real high end.

The symptoms seem to have changed.

You can just as easily get lost in the mix with any amp or cab, even one with a tweeter. It's all down to how you EQ the mids. I still think that's where your problem is. Do you have both volumes on the jazz full up? Try rolling off the neck pickup a little. That usually boosts the sound.

[Musicman20]

If you have a 2x12 with no other option for the higher end (tweeter etc) then that is the reason for missing those frequencies, unfortunately.

[Sammybass]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1500539414' post='3338509']

The symptoms seem to have changed.

[/quote]

The symptoms haven't changed - they remain the lack of top end zing. The observations on the performance of my P and J were for context. Apologies for the confusion.

I think I need a cab with a tweeter.

[Al Krow]

[quote name='Sammybass' timestamp='1500540184' post='3338521']
The symptoms haven't changed - they remain the lack of top end zing. The observations on the performance of my P and J were for context. Apologies for the confusion.

I think I need a cab with a tweeter.
[/quote]

[url="http://www.vanderkleyamp.nl/products/cabinets/210lnt/"]http://www.vanderkle...abinets/210lnt/[/url]

This has a frequency range of up to 16kHz and should therefore easily accomodate your needs? Similar price to the Super Twin, and not too heavy. Consensus seems to be that VK are a little more coloured than the transparent BF. Plenty of discussion on the Vanderkley vs Barefaced thread.

Or this, which takes you up to 20 kHz (with 12", 5" and tweeter). I love the fact that it has a 5" to cater for the mids, which sets it apart from most of its competitors:

[url="http://www.markbass.it/product-detail/traveler-123/"]http://www.markbass....l/traveler-123/[/url]

Edited July 20, 2017 by Al Krow

[Ba55me15ter]

Might be worth asking Alex if he can add a tweeter to your cab. It used to be an option on the Super Twelve (Super Twin predecessor).

[Cuzzie]

[quote name='Ba55me15ter' timestamp='1500552179' post='3338642']
Might be worth asking Alex if he can add a tweeter to your cab. It used to be an option on the Super Twelve (Super Twin predecessor).
[/quote]

only if you ask him in 140 characters or less.............

[Dan Dare]

[quote name='Cuzzie' timestamp='1500557649' post='3338692']


only if you ask him in 140 characters or less.............
[/quote]

Neat

[Muzz]

As mentioned above, a Super Twelve T will do the trick. Or a BB2.

[stingrayPete1977]

You could try a Genz Benz Neox 2x12T, fairly light, 4 ohm, 600 watt and an adjustable tweeter.

[pineweasel]

[quote name='Sammybass' timestamp='1500540184' post='3338521']


The symptoms haven't changed - they remain the lack of top end zing. The observations on the performance of my P and J were for context. Apologies for the confusion.

I think I need a cab with a tweeter.
[/quote]

If you like your Super Twin surely the answer is a Big Twin II?

[sratas]

An advice. Agree with chris b. Zing is properly delivered with a tweeter. But if a jazz dors not cut, there us the need to work with the eq to have a good midrange but without sounding silky or destroying the known jazz tone. It can take some time, but it can solve many issues. I found useful using tube breakup to add midrange harmonics. My jazz has no probs at all cutting trough

[WinterMute]

[quote name='pineweasel' timestamp='1500587964' post='3338995']
If you like your Super Twin surely the answer is a Big Twin II?
[/quote]

This.

Or the Big Twin mk1 which has a 6" driver, a tweeter and some crossover controls, not easy to find, but they are monstrous for those of us who like a little twang in our rumble.