Musicality?

[Bobthedog]

Okay, I have been playing a few years now as a bedroom warrior but more and more looking to go public. I have a great tutor who has brought me on leaps and bounds in the last 6 months, but one thing I struggle with is something I think people call "musicality".

Irrespective of what I change / adapt in my playing, I do not sound like the original bass line. Generally I play all on my Roscoe 5, but have Fender P and Jazz bases and a Dingwall Combustion 5.

I only play covers and always along to You Tube videos and CDs.


How do you define musicality?

Tone, note length, timing, attack / decay? A blend of all these things? Emotion / feel are they such a thing in shaping what come out to the listeners' ears? Are amps and cabs part of this (I switch between the Glock / BF BT II and my Markbass combo). I do know I play with a very light touch and need to butch up a bit on that, but what else can make a difference?


Even on simple songs like Stir It Up where I match all the notes, when they are meant to happen and the right length, it still does not sound like reggae, just a collection of the right notes at the right time but without the love.

[Mykesbass]

Totally subjective. I'll stick my neck out and say in trying to copy the parts so accurately you could be killing the musicality. Try playing around with them, making your own lines up, adding a few little nuances.

I know I'll be shot down by the perfectionists, and there is a valid argument that the original versions will have the musicality of the original (possibly one of the greats) player, but to me it is all in the feel, so it needs to be your feel, not someone else's.

Oh, and playing with a light touch is fine. I dig in like crazy - wish I could do otherwise!

[ambient]

It's down to how the notes were played, more than on what.

[Woodinblack]

If I concentrate on the notes too much they have not much feel. When I am gigging I don't think about the notes much, just the feel and the current atmosphere. It doesn't necessarily sound that much like the original but luckily we are not a tribute band, so that is fine by us.

[Cato]

Can I be the first to say 'It's all in the fingers'?

[peteb]

[quote name='Bobthedog' timestamp='1500740677' post='3339915']

How do you define musicality?

Tone, note length, timing, attack / decay? A blend of all these things? Emotion / feel are they such a thing in shaping what come out to the listeners' ears? Are amps and cabs part of this (I switch between the Glock / BF BT II and my Markbass combo). I do know I play with a very light touch and need to butch up a bit on that, but what else can make a difference?


[/quote]
[font=Arial, sans-serif][size=2]Everything you are talking about there you mainly develop through experience, mainly that of playing with other musicians. You have decent gear, which should help to make you sound better but the musicality and feel are developed over time playing in the 'real world'.[/size][/font]

[quote name='Cato' timestamp='1500743299' post='3339935']
Can I be the first to say 'It's all in the fingers'?
[/quote]
You can but you would be wrong - it's mainly in the mind

[ahpook]

[quote name='Bobthedog' timestamp='1500740677' post='3339915']
Even on simple songs like Stir It Up where I match all the notes, when they are meant to happen and the right length, it still does not sound like reggae, just a collection of the right notes at the right time but without the love.
[/quote]

Have you asked your tutor what they think ?

[BassBus]

[quote name='Bobthedog' timestamp='1500740677' post='3339915']
Irrespective of what I change / adapt in my playing, I do not sound like the original bass line.
[/quote]

I'm wondering why you need to sound like the original all the time. Putting your own slant on a bass part helps you develop your own style. You play the part as you hear it. As has been said above it comes from your mind. That's all that matters at the end of the day.

[kodiakblair]

I've been at this a long time and doubt I've ever sounded like the record

[thepurpleblob]

You're not going to sound like the record. You're going to sound like you. Don't let it get to you.

This is similar to "how can I sound like player X". The answer is to *be* player X.

Some styles are actually tricky to get the feel. Reggae is probably one. Just stick at it, or possibly smoke illegal substances (more)

[dmccombe7]

I think its already been mentioned but i would agree its more about gaining experience with other musicians.
What i have found over many years is that musicians who play in orchestral type situations play exactly what the music tells them to and in perfect timing. That's great for what they are doing. Put them with guys who don't read manuscript and they are out of their comfort zone and don't generally blend with jamming musicians. Its the same when non readers are put with properly trained musicians they will also be out of their depth to a degree.
They don't feel the music in the same way. I find they are more clinical in their playing.
That's not a bad thing by any means but maybe the songs you've been playing along with the musicians are all playing with the feel of the song in mind rather than just playing dots on a page.
Again its not a slight on those who have put the effort in to be able to sight read to a high level. Its just different requirements for different situations.
I think if you start jamming with other musicians and feel the song change rather than rely solely on timing you should develop your "musicality" over time.

Dave

[Bobthedog]

Thanks all so far. I think posts 2 and 4 are onto something in as much I am concentrating too hard on getting it right and perhaps not getting into the feel of the song. The thing I am working on now is playing my own versions and that does seem to help.

Re asking my tutor, I will do but have a couple of weeks between lessons so thought I would come on here first.

[DaveFry]

Just really listen to what you are actually doing without superimposing desires/expectations over the top .
Sooner or later one's own true self/sound emerges .

[Bobthedog]

[quote name='thepurpleblob' timestamp='1500746007' post='3339969']

Some styles are actually tricky to get the feel. Reggae is probably one. Just stick at it, or possibly smoke illegal substances (more)
[/quote]

That was a comment my tutor made about playing reggae too!

[Bobthedog]

[quote name='dmccombe7' timestamp='1500746027' post='3339970']
I think its already been mentioned but i would agree its more about gaining experience with other musicians.
What i have found over many years is that musicians who play in orchestral type situations play exactly what the music tells them to and in perfect timing. That's great for what they are doing. Put them with guys who don't read manuscript and they are out of their comfort zone and don't generally blend with jamming musicians. Its the same when non readers are put with properly trained musicians they will also be out of their depth to a degree.
They don't feel the music in the same way. I find they are more clinical in their playing.
That's not a bad thing by any means but maybe the songs you've been playing along with the musicians are all playing with the feel of the song in mind rather than just playing dots on a page.
Again its not a slight on those who have put the effort in to be able to sight read to a high level. Its just different requirements for different situations.
I think if you start jamming with other musicians and feel the song change rather than rely solely on timing you should develop your "musicality" over time.

Dave
[/quote]

clinical is how it all sounds and so a fair comment. It also applies to when I cook.

[musicbassman]

Just a couple of ideas:
Firstly, you describe yourself as a bedroom warrior.
Do you play sitting down on the same stool in the same place in the same room all the time?
Get a little plug in headphone amp with a beat box built in - (I've been using the little Vox AP2 BS lately and it's brilliant) and play standing up - in the lounge, in the loo , in the garden. anywhere different. A change of location and posture could possibly change your feel, and if you do want to play live, you'll need to get used to playing in the standing position.
Secondly,
I'm sure your teacher has told you about playing 'on top of the beat' or 'behind the beat' etc. Just try creating a groove on two or three notes - (my fave tempo to practice feel is a shuffle around 110bpm). Then keep slowly changing and developing the riff pattern. And listen to the effect on the feel of the riff by slight changes in finger pressure, damping and the exact note timing. Maybe suddenly it will just sound 'right' And then maybe play your riffs to your teacher for an opinion or get your teacher to play the same riffs - does it sound different and if so, why?
Best of luck

[Bobthedog]

[quote name='musicbassman' timestamp='1500748360' post='3339988']
Just a couple of ideas:
Firstly, you describe yourself as a bedroom warrior.
Do you play sitting down on the same stool in the same place in the same room all the time?
Get a little plug in headphone amp with a beat box built in - (I've been using the little Vox AP2 BS lately and it's brilliant) and play standing up - in the lounge, in the loo , in the garden. anywhere different. A change of location and posture could possibly change your feel, and if you do want to play live, you'll need to get used to playing in the standing position.
Secondly,
I'm sure your teacher has told you about playing 'on top of the beat' or 'behind the beat' etc. Just try creating a groove on two or three notes - (my fave tempo to practice feel is a shuffle around 110bpm). Then keep slowly changing and developing the riff pattern. And listen to the effect on the feel of the riff by slight changes in finger pressure, damping and the exact note timing. Maybe suddenly it will just sound 'right' And then maybe play your riffs to your teacher for an opinion or get your teacher to play the same riffs - does it sound different and if so, why?
Best of luck
[/quote]

I do play in the same room but a blend of (mostly) standing up, so I can some movement going, and occasionally sitting down. Will try other rooms too and have a PJB Big Head already. The beat stuff is something I have toyed with but will try your suggestions too, thank you.

[markstuk]

What you hear playing is not what people hear listening . Record yourself if you doubt me :-)

[BassTractor]

[quote name='Bobthedog' timestamp='1500746300' post='3339974']
clinical is how it all sounds and so a fair comment. It also applies to when I cook.
[/quote]

Aye, and also to when I perform open-heart surgery.


Coat.

Edited July 22, 2017 by BassTractor

[FinnDave]

[quote name='BassTractor' timestamp='1500752404' post='3340022']
Aye, and also to when I perform open-heart surgery.


Coat.
[/quote]

I'd be a little worried about a surgeon who operated with flair and originality!

[BassTractor]

[quote name='FinnDave' timestamp='1500753247' post='3340027']
I'd be a little worried about a surgeon who operated with flair and originality!
[/quote]


Good point, well made.

[Elfrasho]

Bear in mind too, when you listen to the classic tunes, the bass sound is produced exactly for the track. You'll not be able to sound like the Ox then Flea within a song or two. Aslong as you have the feel, then you will! Sound good.

[dmccombe7]

In all my 38 yrs or so playing bass i still find Reggae difficult to get the proper feel for the song. Its a type of music i really need to work hard on to get right. Not sure i ever get it truly perfect. Its not difficult playing the notes but getting that Reggae feel is my down side.
Can do most other styles to an acceptable degree. Some good others just enough to pass.

I put it down to having never really played that style much.

This is probably similar to the OP point and i've been playing a lot of years.

So every day is a school day when it comes to bass.

From memory i'm pretty sure it took me a while to click into jamming with mates and getting proper feel for the songs i was playing. Maybe a year back in 70's
Pretty sure it will come given the time and experience.

Dave

[chris_b]

So you're playing all the right notes in all the right places. That's a good start. Many people struggle with that one for years!

Try and play what other players play but don't try to sound like them. Do it all sounding like you and in the end you'll have developed your own identity on bass. Keep playing and building up your mind/ear/hand coordination.

It sounds to me like you're ready for the next step. Playing with other musicians. Find where your local jam nights are and start checking them out. Join a band. Don't be put off by anything. Just keep working at it and you'll be improving every second you're playing.

[JapanAxe]

Stop worrying about sounding like the record, as probably none of us ever will. Compare:

1. The Record
- Multiple takes, very likely 'comped' (the best bits spliced together)
- Loads of studio production
- Played by someone else, in their style

2. Your live performance
- A one-off
- No studio production
- Played by you, in your style

And yes, reggae has a feel that is difficult to get. I think you have to do it a lot really.

Edited July 22, 2017 by JapanAxe