Less Is More

[LeftyP]

I know it is sometimes an overused expression but for bass playing Less is often More. It is also a good excuse to use if, like me, you are not very good at playing!

The August edition of the British publication "[i]Bass Guitar Magazine[/i]" has a very short feature about [b]Kat Ades[/b] of the band [i]Other[/i] [i]Animals[/i]. She says, "The secret of playing bass well is to not be heard when you're there, but be missed when you're not." I must say it is the way I feel about the bass as well. Much as I marvel at the dexterity and speed of some players, I do feel that a subtle bass line (to enhance the overall sound of a piece) is preferred to an all out assault on the lower register. Like many of us who play the instrument, I tend to listen out for bass lines on recordings but most people don't even notice the bass as it blends and gives body to a tune.

There is a wonderful interview with [b]Victor Wooton[/b] on YouTube by [b]Scott Devine[/b] of Scott's Bass Lessons. Settle down for 50 minutes of pure magic from a very talented and humble man.

[chris_b]

[quote name='LeftyP' timestamp='1500845949' post='3340622']
[b]Kat Ades[/b] of the band [i]Other[/i] [i]Animals[/i]. She says, "The secret of playing bass well is to not be heard when you're there, but be missed when you're not." [/quote]

Really? I don't believe in that one at all. He wouldn't last 5 mins in any band I listen to.

Edited July 23, 2017 by chris_b

[blue]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1500849077' post='3340643']


Really? I don't believe in that one at all. He wouldn't last 5 mins in any band I listen to.
[/quote]

Agreed,

Sounds like something that reads cool in a magazine,but in reality makes little sense IMO.

Blue

[bazzbass]

sounds like kat just plays roots and fifths

[oldslapper]

sounds like Kat serves the song.

[Delberthot]

What would be the point of spending all of that money on gear to get the right sound and all the practice if you don't want to be heard?

I want to be heard when I am playing or I wouldn't do it

[Phil Starr]

Like most statements if you take them to extremes they often cease to be true but I think it's something that is very useful and true to a point. A lot of the time bass is heard but not noticed and the bass dropping out or coming back in can add real drama to a song without the bassist playing more than a couple of root notes. that's the point though, it depends upon the song.

[Steve Browning]

Exactly what they said about Freddie Green in the Count Basie band.

I would suspect they mean they don't to impose on the song. IMHO that is what made John Deacon's work in Queen so good. Not sure Victor Wooten would have held down that gig for long!

[Barking Spiders]

Couldn't disagree more. I'm of the 'bass in yer face' school of playing, that bass should be as upfront and demanding to play as the lead guitar, especially in trad guitars, bass, drums and vocals line-ups. In big bands with brass , keyboards etc there probably is less need for upfront bass sounds, unless it's funk.

[oldslapper]

Sounds like Kat thinks playing in a band isn't a competition

[cheddatom]

It depends doesn't it? In a lot of modern metal, the bass is not heard at all, just "felt" so in that context it'd make total sense

Personally I prefer music where there's some space in the sound, and the bass can be heard

[TimR]

What they're talking about there is overplaying.

Lots of inexperienced players will add fills and runs and make lines too busy in an effort to make lines stand out and be noticed. Usually ending up with a bass line that tramples all over the rest of the instruments. It's not confined to bass players either, drummers who add fills at the end of every 4 bars, guitarists who widdle away over vocal lines. There's a lot of it that's unnecessary.

This is the job of a producer, to decide what should be added and just as importantly what should be left out. It's why a lot of the top producers are ex-bass players, they seem to be able to hear the track as a whole and understand how arrangements should work.

[chris_b]

He probably [u]is[/u] talking about serving the song and not overplaying. . . and I agree, but if that is his point, that's what he should have said.

My last gig was a Reggae band and the one before that an SRV Blues/Rock band. I always serve the song and rarely overplay but on both gigs you would have heard me loud and clear 2 post codes away.

Never be unheard on any gig or go unnoticed in anything you do.

[chris_b]

For 10 years now I've been posting about the positive effect that "less is more" has on most bass playing.

Don't overplay, get a great tone, embrace the spaces in between the notes and make every note effective. I've also seen Nathan East and several of the LA session guys say that on every session you have to "leave something on the table", ie play something memorable, a hook or line that grabs the attention.

There's so much more to playing simply than just simple bass lines.

Edited July 24, 2017 by chris_b

[cheddatom]

Jack Stratton (Vulfpeck) said in an interview something like "If what you're playing isn't a hook, you shouldn't be playing it" and he was talking about everyone, every instrument

[oldslapper]

Quite agree Chris & Tom about the hook.

Most hooks are a simple, but effective device, to either catch or hang something on.

But then I like most things in life simple...makes the more complicated/challenging aspects more memorable.
Yes I'm weird....

[Guest subaudio]

I've changed my view over time.

I used to be all about sneaking as many notes in as I could get away with.

Once I started playing double bass I realised that you can actively use space and gaps as if they are notes, I became more about where the notes went rather than how many.

I do love hearing a bassist that can fly but its all about fitting the style and the reason for the notes beyond wanting to prove yourself to a guitarist.

Its a personal choice and a learned skill to either leave space or intensify, playing for the song is either less or more or both

[Dropzone]

Its a song by song thing for me. Get the simple bit right and then see if more enhances or takes away from the song.

[SpondonBassed]

I saw the title of this topic and thought this must be about less being the new black or the grass being greener than two in the bush.

Fluff.

[Highfox]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1500889914' post='3340791']
He probably [u]is[/u] talking about serving the song and not overplaying. . . and I agree, but if that is his point, that's what he should have said.

My last gig was a Reggae band and the one before that an SRV Blues/Rock band. I always serve the song and rarely overplay but on both gigs you would have heard me loud and clear 2 post codes away.

Never be unheard on any gig or go unnoticed in anything you do.
[/quote]

I agree with all that. Depends on the type of music and also your own style, I also try make sure the bass is out there in anything I try do.

[ivansc]

US players are in general better at serving the song than their european counterparts in my (extensive) experience.

I suspect it is largely due to the emphasis put on ensemble playing (marching bands, orchestras, etc) in the US as opposed to the individualistic approach prevalent here in the UK.

One of the hardest lessons for UK musicians to learn seems to be a combination of "there ARE other beats in a 4/4 bar than 1,2,3 and 4" and "the melodic part of the song isn't where you stand around looking bored between solos".

But I still miss the American drummers I worked with.

[cheddatom]

[quote name='ivansc' timestamp='1500898452' post='3340896']
US players are in general better at serving the song than their european counterparts in my (extensive) experience.

I suspect it is largely due to the emphasis put on ensemble playing (marching bands, orchestras, etc) in the US as opposed to the individualistic approach prevalent here in the UK.

One of the hardest lessons for UK musicians to learn seems to be a combination of "there ARE other beats in a 4/4 bar than 1,2,3 and 4" and "the melodic part of the song isn't where you stand around looking bored between solos".

But I still miss the American drummers I worked with.
[/quote]

So UK drummers have an individualistic approach because we don't have orchestras or marching bands?!?

I guess you're posting from your own experience but your generalisation doesn't bare any relation to my experiences

[Woodinblack]

There are different styles for different players, as we noticed in the conversation about Chic at Glastonbury and how many people didn't like the bass player playing more notes than he was allowed.
For me the bass has to be there and it has to have the presence of all the other instruments. Yes it has to form the bedrock of a song and interface between the drums and the melody, but beyond that I want to hear it and I want to be entertained by it.
There is definitely a place in music for bass players playing roots and fifths behind a group and I am not looking down at that. Some people want to play that and some people want to hear that, but I don't want to be that bass player and frankly don't really want to listen to that bass player either.

I have even been known to <gasp> play notes in the verse of 'all right now'

[TimR]

[quote name='Woodinblack' timestamp='1500898882' post='3340901']
There are different styles for different players, as we noticed in the conversation about Chic at Glastonbury and how many people didn't like the bass player playing more notes than he was allowed.
For me the bass has to be there and it has to have the presence of all the other instruments. Yes it has to form the bedrock of a song and interface between the drums and the melody, but beyond that I want to hear it and I want to be entertained by it.
There is definitely a place in music for bass players playing roots and fifths behind a group and I am not looking down at that. Some people want to play that and some people want to hear that, but I don't want to be that bass player and frankly don't really want to listen to that bass player either.

I have even been known to <gasp> play notes in the verse of 'all right now'
[/quote]

It's not an either or situation. The trick is to find the balance between melody and pure bass. I believe it's called harmony.

[KevB]

Yup, all about serving the song. Some stuff needs a busy line an dsome stuff don't. Some stuff needs a mix of both. Woodinblack, you are not alone re ARN, I recently went for an audition where i was specifically asked to play in the verse.