Pub band - small PA options?

[Gottastopbuyinggear]

We're a six piece pub band playing mainly 60s and 70s R&B and soul type stuff, currently putting vocals and keys only through a powered mixer and a couple of 12" speakers. The band member who owns the PA is likely to sell it to free up some cash, so we'll probably be looking for a replacement quite soon. We're essentially playing for fun - we're looking at a maximum of a couple of gigs a month, so that limits the requirement and the budget we can justify.

I'd be interested in people's opinions on the following:

I've been looking at 12" or maybe 10" stuff like the Mackie SRM 450/350, RCF 312a/310a, and maybe equivalent Yamaha stuff. Good condition second hand would be great, or we might stretch to new, but the budget is probably between £500 and £700. We're not looking to mic up drums any time in the future, so we're basically playing to the volume of the drummer. He's quite loud though. I have in my head that it's probably new 10's or second hand 12s even at the top end of the budget.

For our purposes will a decent pair of 10" speakers be likely to be up to the job? Does anyone have any views on any good "value" end of the spectrum kit - Behringer, for example?

I'm quite keen on the idea of a rack mount digital mixer, like one of the smaller Soundcraft or Behringer mixers, as I believe they'll let us save settings for specific venues, and give people (the keys player, basically) the ability to control their own monitor mix. Having the ability to stop wayward fingers (the keys player again, bless him...) knocking any controls that they shouldn't be near is also quite attractive. However none of us are particularly experienced with live sound, so I'm wondering whether a more traditional type mixer would be a better option to start with. Probably looking to spend a couple of hundred quid on this.

What do we think?

[bonzodog]

We use a pair of EV Zlxps 12" and a Yamaha MG10xu mixer and we only put vocals through. Plenty loud enough for pubs and within budget.

Alto TS212 get good reviews too and are a bit cheaper. We use a pair as monitors but could use them as main speakers.
Some good warranty deals on new speakers as well. We got 5 years with the alto ones which is a long time!

[dave_bass5]

Have a read through this thread i started last year.

http://basschat.co.uk/topic/293613-thomanns-the-box-pa-502-a-anyone-using-these-for-live-work/page__fromsearch__1

Im very, very happy with the outcome. i just wish i had got these a few years earlier.

[Les]

We had Mackies, great but one died and couldn't be fixed.

We now use Alto TS112 as tops and 3 Alto TX12's a monitors.

Very pleased with them

Les

[AdamWoodBass]

If it's just vox and keys going through it the Yamaha Stagepas stuff is great. My Father in-law has used them for years and we've done some reasonably sized venues with them, perfect for vocals and keys with great projection and clarity and also very light and compact. I'd recommend checking out the Stagepas 600i which is probably around your budget.

[Muzz]

We have a pair of RCF 310s and one sub, which is enough for bigger four-piece function gigs (kick and overhead, keys, acoustic guitar and vox, sometimes bass), but for pub gigs (unless we know it's a particularly big/loud gig) and for trio stuff we just use the tops. If you're not putting the drums into the PA, then they should be fine...

Edit: Eeeek...ours are 710s...sorry for the bum info, tho I'm sure the 310s would be fine, too...

Edited July 27, 2017 by Muzz

[colleya]

We've also got the Alto TS112A tops, a spare as a monitor plus one 15" sub. They aren't as good as the RCF stuff but we got pretty much the whole setup for a bit more than one RCF top. Apparently the updated 12" tops are better but I haven't heard them.

[skidder652003]

we use RCF stuff and its good but pricey, Id go with the Alto recommendations as its got good reviews and is cheap as...

[Phil Starr]

I'd say the RCF's are going to sound way better than the Alto's or the Yamaha's after comparing them directly. If you can afford them you won't regret their purchase. I've used the Stagepas system and it's a really good all in one solution, very easy to use but not as nice sounding as the RCF's, though still good. Yamaha stuff is soooo reliable.

Behringer mixers have worked well for me, I used a 1204 for years and i still use an Alto equivalent for small gigs. The Yamaha MG series do sound better though. I wouldn't use their speakers though, they do sound good but I've heard a lot of distortion at high levels when people use them.

[Gottastopbuyinggear]

I'd forgotten about Alto, but remember now that they seem to have been getting good reviews, so I'll definitely look into them. I hear the comments about RCF / Yamaha etc. being better, and I'm usually one to go for the best I can afford, but as we're not talking about refined vocal harmonies here (more enthusiastic amateur bouncing around while belting out Jumping Jack Flash) and technology moves on I have a strong feeling the current budget stuff will sound just as good as the ten or fifteen year old EV stuff we're currently using.

Any comments on mixers? I'm particularly keen on something with some automatic feedback suppression, and the ability to get a couple of different monitor mixes would be good, as we usually have two or three doing BVs, so they need a bit more of themselves than we'd want in the singer's monitor. I'm quite keen on the Soundcraft UI 12 at the moment, but just a little wary of having to navigate through lots of different menus to get to something which is right in front of you on an analogue mixer. Ease of setup is quite important, as all the technical stuff falls to me and one of the guitarists and I'm now doing lights as well. That's one of the reasons why something where you can save settings for each venue would be good.

[Gottastopbuyinggear]

Didn't see your comments on mixers, Phil, as our posts crossed.

[grandad]

I've used a Yamaha Stagepas 600i for a couple of years. It's an easy to use lightweight compact system. The one button anti-feedback system works. Definitely worth consideration.

If you do choose it, best get separate covers from Hotcovers rather than the Yamaha cover which is a bit awkward to use.

On occasions I have placed the microphones forward of the speakers without suffering any feedback when not using monitors.

Edited July 27, 2017 by grandad

[thepurpleblob]

We have Bose F1s. Possibly a bit more of a spend but nothing too ridiculous. Very good sound and pretty compact. The whole band goes through the PA and you can still hear the singer.

[Raymondo]

If you have been happy with the PA you now have why not buy it? Your band mate gets his/her money and you get to stay on familiar turf; or is it too expensive?

Just a thought ...good luck!

[phil.c60]

We have a very simple setup: a Yamaha EMX512SC powered mixer and a pair of Electrovoice SX 300's which are 12" passive speakers. We normally only put vocals through it and occasionally harmonica. I have put my bass through it via a Sansamp VT bass on a couple of occasions due to amp issues, and it coped perfectly well for that. We don't usually use monitors, but occasionally end up with one or other speaker behind the microphones and provided you tweek the speaker angles don't get any feedback issues. The speakers I bought second hand from a Basschat ad about 18 months ago, the mixer came with a pair of Peavey Hisys 15's and stands and leads for £300 via ebay. The Peaveys proved to be a bit to big for smaller venues hence I bought the EVs but we were in a similar situation to you when we bought them and needed something quickly. That was 3 years ago and the PA is still going strong, (we gig around 25 times a year) and we use the Peaveys if we play outside and want to mike up the kick drum. As it happens, I bought another Yamaha EMX 512sc desk as a spare which is in much better nick than the scuffed one we gig and have never used it.....if it's of any interest pm me!

[Oopsdabassist]

PM sent

[Kirky]

[quote name='Les' timestamp='1501076123' post='3342293']
We had Mackies, great but one died and couldn't be fixed.

We now use Alto TS112 as tops and 3 Alto TX12's a monitors.

Very pleased with them

Les
[/quote]

One of our Mackies (SRM 450 v1) has just died. You haven't still got the one that's alive have you, by any chance?

[grandad]

[quote name='phil.c60' timestamp='1501145255' post='3342764']
We have a very simple setup: a Yamaha EMX512SC powered mixer and a pair of Electrovoice SX 300's which are 12" passive speakers. We normally only put vocals through it and occasionally harmonica. I have put my bass through it via a Sansamp VT bass on a couple of occasions due to amp issues, and it coped perfectly well for that. We don't usually use monitors, but occasionally end up with one or other speaker behind the microphones and provided you tweek the speaker angles don't get any feedback issues. The speakers I bought second hand from a Basschat ad about 18 months ago, the mixer came with a pair of Peavey Hisys 15's and stands and leads for £300 via ebay. The Peaveys proved to be a bit to big for smaller venues hence I bought the EVs but we were in a similar situation to you when we bought them and needed something quickly. That was 3 years ago and the PA is still going strong, (we gig around 25 times a year) and we use the Peaveys if we play outside and want to mike up the kick drum. As it happens, I bought another Yamaha EMX 512sc desk as a spare which is in much better nick than the scuffed one we gig and have never used it.....if it's of any interest pm me!
[/quote]

+1

My big rig is now an EMX5016 into a pair of EV SX300's and before that a 5012 and before that a 512. Never had a failure with Yamaha equipment.

But others will have had similar experiences with other makes and one tends to recommend that which you feel comfortable and familiar with. By the way the Yamaha user guides are very well written.

[dave_bass5]

[quote name='Gottastopbuyinggear' timestamp='1501140135' post='3342717']
Didn't see your comments on mixers, Phil, as our posts crossed.
[/quote]

Did you look at my thread? The db's are made by a company who are owned by RCF so good quality.

[Les]

[quote name='Kirky' timestamp='1501156421' post='3342886']
One of our Mackies (SRM 450 v1) has just died. You haven't still got the one that's alive have you, by any chance?
[/quote]

Sorry Kirky we sold it. When ours was in the shop waiting to be pronounced dead and staying dead we bought an Alto TX12 for about 80 quid to get us though the next few gigs so I had about 4 or 5 gigs running them side by side and to be honest the Alto was so good we decide to not bother with the Mackies anymore, to say I'm pissed off that a supposedly good bit of kit can't be repaired is an understatement.

We ended up buying another pair of TX12's for 150 quid and a month or so later I dropped on a pair of TS112's, immaculate and with XLR leads, mains leads and stands for £175. So we now have 3 active monitors and 2 active tops for the sum of £430. Seeing as the Mackies cost us 400 second hand I'm more than pleased.

Les

[JamesBass]

I'd recommend not buying mackie, they're speakers sound poor to my ears when compared with brands at a similar price range!

Behringer make some very good desks, and the new Alto TS2 range are fantastic for the price! Definitely worth looking in to them. I'd also look at EV RCF and Yamaha.

[bertbass]

I'm not a great Mackie fan either.

[Happy Jack]

For a pub band, these things are hard to beat: https://www.thomann.de/gb/behringer_rx_1202_fx.htm

Stick it in a Gator case and you have a lightweight, rugged mixer which can sit on top of any flat surface with the controls actually facing the bass player, and which provides a hard surface for all the gubbins you want next to you at a gig.

I've had mine for about eight years now, it's done hundreds of gigs and never had any problem.

[moonbass]

If you can find somewhere to demo the RCF Evox 5 (or 8 if you can stretch) you might well be surprised, especially if using keys through it as well. They are also less visually obtrusive than 12" PA tops in a small pub environment (and you can stand your pint on the sub
(I may also have just put a reasonably priced Soundcraft Ui16 up for sale on the forum today...)

[Gottastopbuyinggear]

Thanks for all the replies. A few specific answers:

[quote name='Raymondo' timestamp='1501144497' post='3342756']
If you have been happy with the PA you now have why not buy it? Your band mate gets his/her money and you get to stay on familiar turf; or is it too expensive?
[/quote]

The price that's been offered is, I think, more than it's really worth. Also, you could anchor a battleship with the powered mixer, and I'm keen to go for powered speakers for the added flexibility should anything go bang in the middle of a gig.

[quote name='Oopsdabassist' timestamp='1501154009' post='3342860']
PM sent
[/quote]

To me? Sorry, I haven't seen anything - unless you're also doubling as another Basschat member who I did get a PM from last night?!

[quote name='dave_bass5' timestamp='1501161034' post='3342954']
Did you look at my thread? The db's are made by a company who are owned by RCF so good quality.
[/quote]

I did, and the DB stuff is on my list to look at, but the ones that were in your thread are I think out of production now. Also, from a very quick look the similar sized stuff doesn't seem to be much cheaper than the RCF stuff anyway? As I say, I've not really looked at them properly yet, but I will do.

For the moment I've emailed the rest of the band with a couple of "for instance we could..." scenarios, to see what they think about the overall price. In no way set in stone yet but one of the suggestions I made was the RCF 310s, a pair of Alto TX10s for monitors, and a UI12. We have a bit of a split between my usual "get quality and get it new with a warranty" approach and "surely we can get something relatively cheap second hand", although we may have learned our lesson on the latter with our current monitoring set up - £55 for powered mixer and a pair of 12" no name speakers from Gumtree!