Remembering long passages - tips?

[redbandit599]

Hi all

Any tips (in addition to lots of repetition ) for remembering long passages?

I play in a covers band, we're going to do Muse Knights of Cydonia - great track and I can play it ok, but there are three 'verses' at the start all with different chords patterns (and they aren't what I'd call a pattern either!)

I can tell immediately when I've gone wrong - but getting them all to stick in the aging grey matter is proving time consuming. I've got lots of other songs to learn, so can't commit hours to going over this one ad nauseam.

Any tips to aid stick-ability appreciated!

Cheers

J

[DaveFry]

Post a chord chart with bar numbers pencilled in and maybe someone can spot the patterns-within-the-patterns .

[T-Bay]

I learn more complicated stuff by splitting it into sections, doing them one by one then linking them all together.

[redbandit599]

Hi Dave - cheers, it is as below I think. Easy enough to play with a chart but in 'full gig' I can see me going a bit of track without some kind of plan. It says verse, but the first two have no vocals.

[Verse 1]

Em G C G / B C Eb G / Cm G Ab Eb / G Ab Eb G

Cm Cm Cm Cm


[Verse 2]

Cm Eb Ab Eb / G Ab B Eb / G# Eb E B / Eb E B Eb

G#m G#m G#m G#m


[Verse 3]

G# B E B / Eb E G B / E B C G / B C G B

Em Em Em Em

Edited July 31, 2017 by redbandit599

[DaveFry]

The three are the same , just starting a major third lower each time ,
EXCEPT for:

- the first chord of bar three is a minor in the first verse , major in the other two ,
and

- the first chord of bar one is a minor in the first two verses , major in the third verse


So I would learn the 4-and-bit-bar pattern and keep in mind that :

the first chord of bars 1 and 3 is
minor and minor for the first verse
minor and major for the second verse
major and major for the third verse

( and each verse starts a major third lower than the previous one. )


So 4-and-a-bit bars and two caveats would be easier to remember than 15 .

Hope that helps

[redbandit599]

Thanks Dave - it certainly won't do any harm! Much appreciated, I'm a pub rock thumper at heart so easily confused

[redbandit599]

Broke out the five string and skived work for 10 mins - thanks again Dave, looking hopeful now!
Really wish I had a brain wired for theory

[TKenrick]

[quote name='redbandit599' timestamp='1501586398' post='3345665']
Really wish I had a brain wired for theory
[/quote]

Not wanting to derail the topic, but this comes up frequently...

I don't believe that [i]anybody [/i]starts with brain wired for music theory (or quantum physics, bricklaying, language learning etc.)

With any of these it's a matter of putting in the hours - the more I teach, the less I believe in talent and the more I see the value of a consistent work ethic.

Unfortunately, music theory is often badly taught and presented as a dry academic subject, completely removed from the playing side of things. This stops people from engaging with it and seeing it for what it truly is - a useful way for musicians to put labels on sounds that explains why certain things work and others don't.

Sorry, sermon over.

[redbandit599]

Hi TKenrick

I think you are probably right there - the tricky thing is that you can get along reasonably well with rudimentary theory, and so for me (and I'm guessing others too) you can get out gigging and playing to a decent pub band standard without 'digging deep' into theory. Then all the other stuff that comes with being in a band takes over your time.

In my case with theory (and other dry stuff, like spread sheets etc) I really only 'get it' with practical examples - but then I don't seem to retain it for long as, by and large, I don't 'need' it to function in my cover bands. If I was writing or depping (I'm not that good ) then I think theory would be a tool that'd get used more and so sharpened.

I also remember physical patterns on the fret board much better than I could ever retain a written chord chart etc.

I'd be interested in any ideas or pointers that would set me on the right path - any ideas where to find theory well taught or presented welcome.

[TKenrick]

[quote name='redbandit599' timestamp='1501590068' post='3345708']
I think you are probably right there - the tricky thing is that you can get along reasonably well with rudimentary theory, and so for me (and I'm guessing others too) you can get out gigging and playing to a decent pub band standard without 'digging deep' into theory. Then all the other stuff that comes with being in a band takes over your time.[/quote]

This is, in my experience, the case for most people - because the bass is a symmetrically-tuned, pattern-orientated instrument, we can do a lot of playing without having to necessarily know what most of it means. Most bassists' fingers are more capable than their brains (or their ears, or eyes...) and you can definitely develop a level of playing without much knowledge - this is actually more practical (and easier to remedy) than [i]knowing[/i] lots of theory but not being able to put any of it on the instrument.


[quote]In my case with theory (and other dry stuff, like spread sheets etc) I really only 'get it' with practical examples - but then I don't seem to retain it for long as, by and large, I don't 'need' it to function in my cover bands. If I was writing or depping (I'm not that good ) then I think theory would be a tool that'd get used more and so sharpened.[/quote]

A useful question here is "How much theory do I need to know for the gigs that I do?". There's not a huge amount of value in trying to wade into the Dark Arts of Jazz if you're gigging AC/DC songs in pubs (this is not meant to belittle those gigs, I make my living playing 'Wonderwall' and 'Valerie' at drunk people).

Now, I don't know your answer to that question and I don't know what you know already, but these two things are pretty much everyone needs to work on (including myself):[list=1]
[*]The notes that go into chords
[*]Their location on the bass
[/list]

Most people struggle with theory because they don't know their fretboard well enough - the same applies for reading music. People have trouble with 7th chords because they haven't spent enough time working on triads, and people get confused about triads because they haven't got a firm grasp on intervals; they can't get their head around intervals because they don't [i]really[/i] know where the notes are on their bass.


[Quote]I'd be interested in any ideas or pointers that would set me on the right path - any ideas where to find theory well taught or presented welcome.
[/quote]

The internet is a minefield of idiots pedalling absolute nonsense dressed up to look legitimate facts (the same could obviously be said for me...). I'm yet to find a book that explains necessary contemporary theory in a succinct, practical way - a few people on here have had success with Ariane Cap's 'Music Theory For The Bass Player' book, but I haven't read it so I'm not really in a place to comment either way.

If in doubt, avoid YouTube and get one-to-one lessons with some local to you who:
1) gets booked for gigs/other music work regularly by other people
2) reads music
3) has some sort of formal music education.

It's possible to find great teachers who don't meet any of the above criteria, but it's extremely unlikely.

A longer reply than intended, but this still only scratches the surface...


Tom

[redbandit599]

Thanks Tom, really interesting and all you've written rings very true.

Thanks for your interest and time.