Pub 'reluctant' to pay

[dazza14]

Had a gig last night at a pub we've played a few times in the past but is now under new management (the gig was booked through the previous landlady but management informed us they would honour the bookings) and when we'd finished our playing I, and our singer, approached the bar staff and asked to see the manageress about being paid and it went downhill from there.
We were left standing for about five minutes before I reminded the barman what we were waiting for, he told us to go to the other end of the bar where the manageress was standing, so off we trotted.
She asked us "who was it that booked you?" (knowing full well it was the previous landlady)
Then "well the booking wasn't made through me... I don't really know much about it..." - more head scratching and delaying.
We played along, showed sympathy, but in our minds thinking 'just f***ing pay us'!
She then told us our booking wasn't in the diary, as she did this she thumbed through said diary only to land on last nights date and there we were, in black and white, listed as entertainment.
So back to the 'I didn't book you' line of denial.
I then said that we had been booked last December, had contacted the pub three weeks earlier, had delivered posters, had contacted the pub to discuss fee - I always do this via text or email to have a record for this eventuality - and if she was unsure who had booked us or who was paying for us why had she not asked us when we arrived three hours earlier?
At this her partner/boyfriend/husband came up (a big fella standing a good 6ft 5" and probably 19st in weight) and asked her when the lady who booked us was coming in.
By this point I was ready to pick up a bar stool and introduce it to the optics and glasses in the bar, and if the police came, so be it.
So more head scratching, heavy sighing by our singer, dirty looks between me and the boyfriend, and then suddenly she resolved that she was going to pay the fee.
The whole conversation took 30mins from the moment we approached the bar.

I've since learnt that last night's manageress (and her co-manageress) left last night, it was their last night before a new landlord takes over today.
I wonder if our fee was her intended 'goldne handshake'...?

Needless to say we won't be playing there again, unless we get the fee upfront.

[Happy Jack]

Name & shame?

[KevB]

It wouldnt surprise me at all if she was looking to pocket your fee by intimidating you in the hope you'd shrug and write it off, these fly by night management types are usually shifty at best. The Greyhound in Beeston went from a thriving music venue to a shadow of its former self after the regular long term LL and his missis left (health reasons). One of the intermediate short term managers emptied the tills and games machines and did a midnight runner I believe. It's still struggling to get to where it was 6 or 7 yrs ago though now back under permanent management again.

[dlloyd]

[quote name='dazza14' timestamp='1501842282' post='3347701']
Had a gig last night at a pub we've played a few times in the past but is now under new management (the gig was booked through the previous landlady but management informed us they would honour the bookings) and when we'd finished our playing I, and our singer, approached the bar staff and asked to see the manageress about being paid and it went downhill from there.
We were left standing for about five minutes before I reminded the barman what we were waiting for, he told us to go to the other end of the bar where the manageress was standing, so off we trotted.
She asked us "who was it that booked you?" (knowing full well it was the previous landlady)
Then "well the booking wasn't made through me... I don't really know much about it..." - more head scratching and delaying.
We played along, showed sympathy, but in our minds thinking 'just f***ing pay us'!
She then told us our booking wasn't in the diary, as she did this she thumbed through said diary only to land on last nights date and there we were, in black and white, listed as entertainment.
So back to the 'I didn't book you' line of denial.
I then said that we had been booked last December, had contacted the pub three weeks earlier, had delivered posters, had contacted the pub to discuss fee - I always do this via text or email to have a record for this eventuality - and if she was unsure who had booked us or who was paying for us why had she not asked us when we arrived three hours earlier?
At this her partner/boyfriend/husband came up (a big fella standing a good 6ft 5" and probably 19st in weight) and asked her when the lady who booked us was coming in.
By this point I was ready to pick up a bar stool and introduce it to the optics and glasses in the bar, and if the police came, so be it.
So more head scratching, heavy sighing by our singer, dirty looks between me and the boyfriend, and then suddenly she resolved that she was going to pay the fee.
The whole conversation took 30mins from the moment we approached the bar.

I've since learnt that last night's manageress (and her co-manageress) left last night, it was their last night before a new landlord takes over today.
I wonder if our fee was her intended 'goldne handshake'...?

Needless to say we won't be playing there again, unless we get the fee upfront.
[/quote]

Who are they managing for?

If you have documents backing you up, write to the area manager of the company that own the pub.

[The59Sound]

Name & shame otherwise a pointless thread.

[TimR]

We had something similar when a new landlord took over a regular pub in Hitchin that's been doing music for years. It had closed for a while and was going to be converted to flats.

The locals had disappeared to be replaced with a new smaller group.

He really wasn't interested in us playing, hadn't bothered to contact us, told us on no uncertain terms that we weren't the type of music he would book, even if he was intending on booking bands again.

I don't know if he is still there.

[dazza14]

[quote name='The59Sound' timestamp='1501847043' post='3347741']
Name & shame otherwise a pointless thread.
[/quote]

I don't want to name and shame a pub who is now being run by, hopefully, a better landlord.
The pub has a bad reputation as it is without me adding to it.

[Nicko]

[quote name='dazza14' timestamp='1501848644' post='3347750']
I don't want to name and shame a pub who is now being run by, hopefully, a better landlord.
The pub has a bad reputation as it is without me adding to it.
[/quote]

I thought it was the new manager who refused to pay. In that case you should name and shame.

[Dan Dare]

[quote name='Nicko' timestamp='1501849144' post='3347758']


I thought it was the new manager who refused to pay. In that case you should name and shame.
[/quote]

See dazza's penultimate sentence, when he says she left the following day.

[Monkey Steve]

had the odd occasion when the pub management has changed but at worst it's been finding out a couple of days beforehand when we've rung or e-mailed to check the arrangements that we find that it's under new management who have no idea that you're booked in (or, as is far more common, you ringing reminds the not at all new management that they had booked you to play as well as another band and somebody's got to drop out).

The fact that they would let you set up and play before raising the issue is beyond belief. Like any landlord would just let a band play without any clue what they were doing there...

chancers. Glad it got resolved

[Dood]

If there was any more a reason to ensure you have a contract for a gig, this is a good one. For future reference, join the MU who offer template contracts to print out for venues to sign prior to playing the gig.

Edited August 4, 2017 by dood

[JapanAxe]

[quote name='dood' timestamp='1501854083' post='3347812']
If there was any more a reason to ensure you have a contract for a gig, this is a good one. For future reference, join the MU who offer template contracts to print out for venues to sign prior to playing the gig.
[/quote]

This.

[ambient]

[quote name='dood' timestamp='1501854083' post='3347812']
If there was any more a reason to ensure you have a contract for a gig, this is a good one. For future reference, join the MU who offer template contracts to print out for venues to sign prior to playing the gig.
[/quote]

I was about to say this.

They'll also take up the case for you if you didn't get paid.

Not to mention the included gear insurance, and the included public liability insurance, and the free regular workshops and the diary .

[Les]

[quote name='dood' timestamp='1501854083' post='3347812']
If there was any more a reason to ensure you have a contract for a gig, this is a good one. For future reference, join the MU who offer template contracts to print out for venues to sign prior to playing the gig.
[/quote]

Any form of contract is a good idea, however I'll think pubs will generally raise their eyebrows should a contract land on the mat.

We don't use contracts but do very few (2 a year ?) by phone and if that happens it will be followed by a txt to confirm. My preferred method is messenger or email or failing that txt, anything in writing in fact that isn't just one way.

All that said the landlady referred to in the OP's post obviously knew the gig was on and was just being an arse.

Les

[12stringbassist]

If it hadn't been their last night, I would have asked them if any other bands that they had stiffed had ever broken their nice engraved front windows.

I had to resort to saying that once with a pub who were getting a bit cocky and saying well, now you've played you can p*** off.
They saw the messenger trail on my phone, showing the fee and fearing for their windows, they eventually paid me that agreed fee.
It was close thing, though. Those people got kicked out of that pub a month later.

[skidder652003]

can't still believe this bo**ocks is still going on in 2017. Any evidence of an agreement is vital, be it texts or email, but, thats not always possible. I always call the venue usually on the day of the gig to at least confirm its us playing. Last gig we did was a new venue and the fee came up £100 short (albeit a genuine counting mistake supposedly and we got sorted). Half the time the landlord/lady are tanked up themselves and in the mood for a ruck, funny how its always the bass players who have to sort out the mess!

[The59Sound]

[quote name='dazza14' timestamp='1501848644' post='3347750']


I don't want to name and shame a pub who is now being run by, hopefully, a better landlord.
The pub has a bad reputation as it is without me adding to it.
[/quote]
I look forward to playing the same venue then and being out of pocket.

[SICbass]

[quote name='The59Sound' timestamp='1501860108' post='3347874']

I look forward to playing the same venue then and being out of pocket.
[/quote]

Did you the read the WHOLE OP?

"I've since learnt that last night's manageress (and her co-manageress) left last night, it was their last night before a new landlord takes over today."

i.e. the place is now under new management who may behave completely honorably. Innocent until proved guilty and all that.

[AndyTravis]

Who's the brewery?

We had this in a Holt's pub.

Found their FD on twitter.

Low and behold, two days later, a cheque arrived.

[chrismuzz]

If there's ever a fee agreed both my bands make sure to get this in writing. Either via email or preferably a signed contract

[Dan Dare]

[quote name='skidder652003' timestamp='1501859933' post='3347873']
can't still believe this bo**ocks is still going on in 2017. Any evidence of an agreement is vital, be it texts or email, but, thats not always possible. I always call the venue usually on the day of the gig to at least confirm its us playing. Last gig we did was a new venue and the fee came up £100 short (albeit a genuine counting mistake supposedly and we got sorted). Half the time the landlord/lady are tanked up themselves and in the mood for a ruck, funny how its always the bass players who have to sort out the mess!
[/quote]

Happened to my band last year. Pub was almost empty and the landlady said at half time we should stop and she'd pay us half the fee. Sadly, the guitar player, who was a bit of a wuss, agreed without consulting the rest of us (she took him aside and did the foul deed whilst we were discussing what to play in the second set), which left us a bit high and dry. I argued the toss, but he'd already capitulated, so to no avail. Funnily enough, our drummer used to be the one who was most useful in such cases. He was - still is - a martial arts instructor (taught the police,, among others). He's a lovely bloke, but has a way of looking at people and speaking to them in a friendly tone that they can't resist. I've since left the band. I would have probably killed the guitar player - he had delusions of being band leader, despite the fact that he was the least musically able, but he was able to hind behind his missus, who played keys (extremely well) and sang - had I not done so.

Edited August 4, 2017 by Dan Dare

[blue]

It really sounds like there was no one really in charge at the pub. If there was they should have approached the band at arrival or even called before hand and cancelled the gig.

Do you think it was a combination of poor and shady management?

I'm so glad we have an off stage business person that can sniff these things out before they happen.

My unsolicited advice, be carful when there's no pub ownership or true management on the premesis when you arrive.

A few weeks ago We played a bar gig at a big local biker bar that we've been playing for the last 5 years.

Ownership had changed and the new owners were there. We made sure the proper representative of the band shook hands an introduced themselves to the new owners.

Blue

Edited August 4, 2017 by blue

[blue]

[quote name='Dan Dare' timestamp='1501866597' post='3347942']


Happened to my band last year. Pub was almost empty and the landlady said at half time we should stop and she'd pay us half the fee. Sadly, the guitar player, who was a bit of a wuss, agreed without consulting the rest of us (she took him aside and did the foul deed whilst we were discussing what to play in the second set), which left us a bit high and dry. [/quote]

Not uncommon and IMO not completely unfair.

There was no business and the landlady made a business decision. I've heard about this happening with my local peer bands.

Last Sunday a friend showed up at my gig and told me his band was playing a bar a few miles away the same day. It was new ownership, no business scenario. They were asked to pack up. However he said they were paid in full.

Not sure how it happens in the UK, but this no business,empty room sydrome happens for a reason.

In the US it might be;

1.A bar that's new to hirering bands and wants to grow the business with little to no experience.

2.The gig is booked the same time and date of a major sporting event.

3.Bad weather

4.Bars where the actual service bar is in a separate room from the band.

I'm sure there's are others.

Blue

Edited August 4, 2017 by blue

[blue]

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1501857498' post='3347848']


I was about to say this.

They'll also take up the case for you if you didn't get paid.

Not to mention the included gear insurance, and the included public liability insurance, and the free regular workshops and the diary .
[/quote]

Depends on the strength of the Union and who they cater to.

In my neck of the woods the MU is not going to bring much to the table for bar bands.

Contract? Contracts are usually presented by the employer not the band.We see them only for high end gigs, major fairs or festivals.

If we presented a contract to the bars we play they'd have a good laugh of it.

Blue

Edited August 4, 2017 by blue

[steve-bbb]

its not the brewerys fault ... name and shame the pair of them to hopefully spare others the inconvenience of getting had over by them in future