F****r AE Precision build - Final PICS added!

[honza992]

Thanks all for the advice re dust.  Tried all in the end, so there....was....no....dust....

And this one has not long gestation left.  The body needs one or maybe two more coats of osmo.  The water slide decal is on and buried on the headstock, so the neck just needs a couple more coats (of General Finishes HP) then it's electronics and out kicking and screaming into the world!

Happy days

 

Oh, and Honza.  Please be careful.  Don't drop it.  Don't drop anything on it.  Like that Brad Point.  Step away very slowly.........

 

[Owen]

On 10/24/2017 at 11:26, honza992 said:

 

Wood is the best!

Edited November 14, 2017 by owen

[honza992]

On 14/11/2017 at 16:04, owen said:

Wood is the best!

The bridge turned out nice didn't it! 

 

Finish is, well, umm, finished.  Bit of curing time than string it up and ride it out......

[SpondonBassed]

14 hours ago, honza992 said:

The bridge turned out nice didn't it! 

 

Finish is, well, umm, finished.  Bit of curing time than string it up and ride it out......

I hope we get photos of that.  Will you ride it in the traditional schoolboy-with-broom manner or will you go side-saddle?

Heeheehee.  It's looking loverly.

[honza992]

Photos?  Of course.  Without those none of this ever happened.......

[Norris]

That's a bizarre site bug. I just checked out the latest updates in this thread and at the top of the page are the poll results from the red pill/blue pill thread from the off topic forum. Weird!

Anyway you're creating a gorgeous bass. Keep up the good work

[honza992]

Well the woodworkery type stuff is done.  FInish is finished, as in my experience it isn't wont to do.

So I strung her up, connected the wires, decided on the red pill then plugged it in.  And there was noise.  Beautiful noise  Or at least there was from the E string.  Nothing at all however from either A or D string, and only a bit from the G.  Now I'm the sort of player where even one and a half sounding strings is probably overkill, but purely for academic interest I should try to get the other two and a half strings up and running. I literally wired, stringed and plugged it in about 20 seconds as I was late picking up the little one from nursery (and they charge one pound per minute, yes one pound per minute if you are late) so I may well have missed something obvious, but I couldn't wait till next week to see if anything was going to come out at all.  My instinct is that the difference in output between the strings is due to the bone saddle not being flat on the bottom.  That or I guess the bottom of the channel in the bridge may not be flat, but that was routed in one go so that seems less likely.  The transducer itself is one similar to this:

So it looks as though it's got seperate sensors for each string.  Whether it actually has or not is a different matter.  If anyone has got any immediate pearls of wisdom I'd love to have them.  As I said it was a bit of a rush job so I may be missing something obvious.  I'll take a more leisurely look next week. 

And THEN you'll get the some photos.  Promise. 

[SpondonBassed]

42 minutes ago, honza992 said:

Well the woodworkery type stuff is done.  FInish is finished, as in my experience it isn't wont to do.

So I strung her up, connected the wires, decided on the red pill then plugged it in.  And there was noise.  Beautiful noise  Or at least there was from the E string.  Nothing at all however from either A or D string, and only a bit from the G.  Now I'm the sort of player where even one and a half sounding strings is probably overkill, but purely for academic interest I should try to get the other two and a half strings up and running. I literally wired, stringed and plugged it in about 20 seconds as I was late picking up the little one from nursery (and they charge one pound per minute, yes one pound per minute if you are late) so I may well have missed something obvious, but I couldn't wait till next week to see if anything was going to come out at all.  My instinct is that the difference in output between the strings is due to the bone saddle not being flat on the bottom.  That or I guess the bottom of the channel in the bridge may not be flat, but that was routed in one go so that seems less likely.  The transducer itself is one similar to this:

So it looks as though it's got seperate sensors for each string.  Whether it actually has or not is a different matter.  If anyone has got any immediate pearls of wisdom I'd love to have them.  As I said it was a bit of a rush job so I may be missing something obvious.  I'll take a more leisurely look next week. 

And THEN you'll get the some photos.  Promise. 

I agree with you that it is worth checking for equally good mechanical contact beneath the saddle at each string contact point.  There must be full contact at each of the transducer's high spots.  The example in the photo looks like it fits one way only but could it be that yours went in upside down?

I don't think that the following is caused by the same thing as in your case but it sounded similar to your problem;

'In 1968, Baldwin produced the first under-the-saddle transducer, which could reproduce the vibrations of both the guitar’s top and its strings. The pickup—essentially a thin strip of piezos that could be sandwiched under the guitar’s saddle—suffered from uneven string-to-string balance, and it was exclusive to Baldwin’s guitars. But its potential didn’t go unnoticed by modern acoustic pioneers Ovation. When their star endorsee, Glen Campbell, became tempted by the Baldwin system, Ovation’s R&D team worked overtime to produce a better unit. The result was an under-the-saddle pickup with pure tone and exceptional balance. It proved so popular that Ovation became synonymous with the term electric-acoustic.'

http://gear-vault.com/how-do-piezo-acoustic-work/

 

[honza992]

Ok here's a teaser photo.  Proper ones will follow....

Edited November 18, 2017 by honza992

[SpondonBassed]

That's got some lovely clean lines.  Very nice.

[fleabag]

That is stunning. Very clean

[honza992]

On 18/11/2017 at 13:57, SpondonBassed said:

That's got some lovely clean lines.  Very nice.

 

2 hours ago, fleabag said:

That is stunning. Very clean

Thanks guys, I'm really pleased you like the bass.  I've put it aside for a week or so for the finish to properly cure then I'll get some real photos done. The mahogany at the back has also come out nice!

[honza992]

Ok I finally managed to get round to looking at the piezo issue.  It turned out to be two things.  First the bottom of the saddle wasn't flat and second the saddle was a bit tight in the slot.  Once I was tuning up to full tension the break angle of the strings over the saddle was forcing the saddle sideways into the wall of the bridge, meaning it then wasn't transferring the strings vibrations effectively to the piezo elements.  Again a bit of sanding the sides of the saddle and that finally gave me all four strings sounding at equal volume.  Less pleasing is the sound itself which is a bit nasally.  Goddam!  I noticed though that the bridge itself is not sitting flat on the top and I wonder if that is affecting the bass response.  So I've sanded it flat and then.....ran out of time So tomorrow I'll string it up again and see if that's helped......

Fingers crossed.

[Owen]

Honky piezo = needing a high impedance preamp. Nothing to do with the bass.

[SpondonBassed]

11 hours ago, owen said:

Honky piezo...

Isn't that one of Sir Elton's lesser known albums?

Or

Is it what happens when @Les's kebab hunt ends up at the hut?

Edited December 5, 2017 by SpondonBassed

[honza992]

On 04/12/2017 at 21:24, owen said:

Honky piezo = needing a high impedance preamp. Nothing to do with the bass.

I've got a Cafe Walter PZP1 in there, which was designed specifically for the Fender AE, of which this is a copy.  It may be time for me to check my wiring!

[honza992]

On 05/12/2017 at 08:53, SpondonBassed said:

Isn't that one of Sir Elton's lesser known albums?

Ha ha, very good.  One of my favourites, actually (albeit Madman Across the Water is better).  It's a shame Sir EJ has become a parady of himself.  Like Rod Stewart.  Both of their first few albums are fantastic, and almost completely overlooked now.  And the quality of their backing bands is also incredible.  Puts 99% of modern music to shame......  Of course anything produced by either of them in the last 30 years makes me want to retch, but there you go.  I'm a fickle bugger. 

[honza992]

OK, time to share a slight setback with you all. 

When I was designing this bass I had always imagined a 'floating' bridge, held in place by bridge tension.  I thought this would solve the intonation problem - you could slide the bridge around till you got the ideal position.  What I've found though is that because it's a string-through, and because I've got the bridge so near the edge of the body (to help with balance) the angle at which the strings cut over the bridge means that they are 'pusing' the bridge towards the neck.  And as you bring the strings up to tension the bridge is pushed out of it's correct position, meaning the intonation is shot.  I've even tried clamping it down as I tune up but again the bridge just moves as soon as you loosen the clamps.  Looking at the design, it's now pretty obvious that this would be a problem. 

So, I think I've got three solutions. 

1.  Drill holes in the bridge and screw it down as you would any other bridge - I'm sure this would work fine, but the though of drilling holes in my beautiful bridge is not filling me with joy.  Not my preferred option. 

2.  Glue the bridge down.  Hmmm.....I'm not sure about this.  I'd need to strip the finish first from the top, though that in itself isn't a problem.  I'm just not sure I love the idea of permanently attaching the bridge.  Possible though. 

3.  Rout an indentation into which the bridge would sit.  I'm thinking it would only need to be a couple of mm deep, just enough to stop the bridge moving.  Rob Allen sinks his bridge into the top, as does Jerzy Drozd.  So I've been experimenting to see whether I can make a template accurate enough that everyone doesn't laugh and point at the gaps round the edge.  Watch this space. 

Does anyone have any observations?  Advice?  

[Owen]

20 minutes ago, honza992 said:

I've got a Cafe Walter PZP1 in there, which was designed specifically for the Fender AE, of which this is a copy.  It may be time for me to check my wiring!

Ah. Cafe Walter should be doing the biz. Sadness. 

[SpondonBassed]

I'd favour the third solution provided that you have not cut your saddle too low else it might need replacing to take up the difference in bridge height.  It would be a shame to have fasteners showing up that beautifully simple  finish you have achieved.  Making a router template for this will open option two for you as well because you can skim the finish off ready for adhesive.  I don't feel good about adhesive but I can't give you a reason why not.

Edited December 6, 2017 by SpondonBassed

[Jabba_the_gut]

Hi Honza,

Could you possibly use a couple of short dowels / locator pins that protrude a couple of mm from the face of the body. Then you could have a couple of matching shallow holes in the bottom of the bridge to locate on the pins. The holes in the bridge then don't need to go all the way through so keeping the looks. 

Does this make sense???!!

[honza992]

2 minutes ago, SpondonBassed said:

I don't feel good about adhesive but I can't give you a reason why not.

SB, we are as one, very beautiful, mind......

[honza992]

1 minute ago, Jabba_the_gut said:

Hi Honza,

Could you possibly use a couple of short dowels / locator pins that protrude a couple of mm from the face of the body. Then you could have a couple of matching shallow holes in the bottom of the bridge to locate on the pins. The holes in the bridge then don't need to go all the way through so keeping the looks. 

Does this make sense???!!

And here come the professionals!

Yes, nice elegant simple solution.  Why is it that those are always the sort that elude me?

Thanks Jabba,  That certainly sounds like the most straight forward way of doing it.  Any idea if a couple of standard 6, 8, or 10mm dowels would be enough to hold that much tension?

[Jabba_the_gut]

2 minutes ago, honza992 said:

And here come the professionals!

Yes, nice elegant simple solution.  Why is it that those are always the sort that elude me?

Thanks Jabba,  That certainly sounds like the most straight forward way of doing it.  Any idea if a couple of standard 6, 8, or 10mm dowels would be enough to hold that much tension?

Not sure, never tried it!!

I would have thought that a couple of 6mm hardwood towels would be plenty to stop the bridge moving.

Cheers

[SpondonBassed]

10 minutes ago, Jabba_the_gut said:

Hi Honza,

Could you possibly use a couple of short dowels / locator pins that protrude a couple of mm from the face of the body. Then you could have a couple of matching shallow holes in the bottom of the bridge to locate on the pins. The holes in the bridge then don't need to go all the way through so keeping the looks. 

Does this make sense???!!

Blindingly obvious with hindsight.  D'oh!