F****r AE Precision build - Final PICS added!

[SpondonBassed]

Done. Spruce and ebony.

I like the unlined idea too.

[honza992]

Ok i was hoping to at least make a start on the neck this week.....but no. And tomorrow we are off to Wales for a week of wind, rain and sand in our sandwiches. Quite how the British even ended up with a word for 'summer' I don't know.

Thanks all for voting. Any waverers among you have got a bit more time to consider the options.....

[TheGreek]

I was trying my best to like the spruce/ebony combo but...

..the grain on the maple is far easier on the eye and..

...much as I've tried I really can't get to like Macassor Ebony (shouldn't ebony always be totally black?)

So option 1 - Maple/ Rosewood - for me

Edited August 12, 2017 by TheGreek

[Mykesbass]

That ebony...

[Owen]

Cafe Walter pre-amp! That takes me back!

[rOB]

Oo, looking forward to seeing how this goes.

[honza992]

OK, polls are closed. And the People's Choice is.....


MAPLE and EBONY. Yeh!

I have to say I nearly ignored the lot of you and went with maple and rosewood. I wasn't sure whether the maple and ebony was just a bit...busy. You know, that american thing of flame and burl and stripes and birds eye and quilt and veneers and bells with knobs on.

Then I thought, no, the people have spoken. Who am I to resist the overwhelming outburst of popular opinion?

So today work started in earnest. Standby for updates.....

[honza992]

First I prepared the blanks - neck thicknessed to 20mm and fretboard to 5.5mm.

Next up is the truss rod channel. This is 1/4" wide by approximately 9mm deep. I used a router running along a straight edge. When using routers remember they go left. Meaning they will naturally pull to the left as they cut. Which is why you always lift the router up at the end of a cut, you never go back along the channel you've just made. The longer straight edge is the one guiding the router, and the shorter one is just there to provide support to the router base.

[attachment=251872:IMG_20170822_112628.jpg]

I rough cut the neck on the bandsaw then use a bearing guided cutter on the router table to rout it to its final shape. I use a template for the headstock but the sides of the neck I just use a straightedge. The advantage of this is that I can easily do any nut width and any string spacing at the bridge. I just stick a straight edge onto the top of the neck blank with double sided tape. It works surprisingly well.

[attachment=251871:IMG_20170822_130036.jpg]

My absolute least favourite part of building is gluing on the fretboard. It's always fraught, and I've completely buggered it up a couple of times, normally because the fretboard moves as you clamp. I've therefore developed a fool proof (even if not quite Honza proof ) method. I leave the blank a bit longer at the heel, and leave some excess below the nut on the treble side. I can then use two dowels when gluing to prevent the board from moving.

At the nut end is a 3mm drill bit ....
[attachment=251870:IMG_20170822_140755.jpg]
and at the heel is 6mm dowel....
[attachment=251869:IMG_20170822_140810.jpg]
I'm not gluing at this stage, just making sure that the holes for the dowels are drilled in the right place, ie with the board clamped absolutely flat on the neck blank.

Finally today I prepared the neck for gluing. I put the truss rod in, then cover the channel with very thin masking tape. This prevents glue from getting into the channel and I leave it there, the fretboard just goes on top. I also put tape on the side of the neck so that glue squeeze-out oozes down the tape which can just be pulled off.

Here's everything ready for gluing:
[attachment=251868:IMG_20170822_144510.jpg]

So with everything ready, I ....... went home.

The single most important thing I have found about gluing is never ever ever ever (did I say ever?) do it last thing in the afternoon. If you are like me you will rush to get it done and you will boll_cks the whole thing up. Glue in the mornings when you are relaxed. I can't tell you how many blanks I have ruined by being in a hurry.

So far so good. Perfection still a theoretical possibility.

Sleep well.

Edited August 22, 2017 by honza992

[honza992]

Couple of quick things.

First, I should say that I don't advise you to take any of my advice. Or least not until you've double checked with someone who actually knows what they are doing.

Second, let me know if there's anything you want to see in more detail. Or if I've bored you senseless let me know and I'll have single word updates from now on

[TheGreek]

[quote name='honza992' timestamp='1503428815' post='3358196']
Couple of quick things.

First, I should say that I don't advise you to take any of my advice.
[/quote]


Best bit of advice you can ever give...

[SpondonBassed]

[quote name='honza992' timestamp='1503428815' post='3358196']
Couple of quick things.

First, I should say that I don't advise you to take any of my advice. Or least not until you've double checked with someone who actually knows what they are doing.

Second, let me know if there's anything you want to see in more detail. Or if I've bored you senseless let me know and I'll have single word updates from now on
[/quote]

The updates are fine as they are. I'm enjoying them.

[honza992]

Well today was something of a glue-fest. I felt like Paddington covered in marmalade.

First up was the fretboard. I'm always nervous when using titebond to glue critical joints like the fretboard/neck. I'm worried the water content will cause everything to expand then retract in unpredictable ways. So I prefer to clamp the neck to something flat to try to stop any movement. I don't, though, have any kind of flat surface in the workshop - the table I have isn't even vaguely flat. So I did this.....
[attachment=251950:IMG_20170823_093739.jpg]
This is a mahogany body blank onto which I've clamped the neck/fretboard. (This is a dry run, before I put the glue on. No photos post-glue, far too much going on.) The mahogany blank also isn't entirely flat, so on top of that I put a piece of MDF then used a few layers of masking tape to make up for the slight sag that the mahogany had in the middle. It turned out to be surprisingly accurate a method. Two pieces of masking tape was enough to get the MDF base completely level.

Gluing went pretty smoothly. One thing I have learned is.....patience. I take at least 5-8 minutes to do the clamps up. Every minute or so I give the clamps a further bit of a turn. This allows the excess glue to ooze out. It's amazing how you can do them up tight, then go back a minute or two later and they can be loose again.

I also prepared the maple top for gluing. I jointed the edges by sticking the two halves together, sticking a straight edge on top then routing the edge using the same bearing-guided bit I used to rout the sides of the neck. Some light sanding and I hope it's ready to glue. I think I'm going to use the 'tape tent' method. But that's tomorrows update.....
[attachment=251949:IMG_20170823_105833.jpg]

Lastly I glued up the body blank. It's really a nice piece of mahogany. Bought from David Dyke who said it was from Fiji, and who am I to argue. I jointed the edges in the same was as the maple top then glued it vertically in my vice - largely because I no longer had a free horizontal surface.
[attachment=251948:IMG_20170823_142904.jpg]

And that campers was pretty much it for today. Tomorrow is squeaky bum time when I unclamp the neck. If the body join is rubbish I can always saw it in half again and re-glue it. The neck & fretboard is a different matter. I'm told you can heat up a butter knife to take off a glued fretboard, but that sounds complicated and painful. So let us say a short prayer to god of invisible glue lines......

Thanks for reading.

[SpondonBassed]

[quote name='honza992' timestamp='1503519188' post='3358932']

...The neck & fretboard is a different matter. I'm told you can heat up a butter knife to take off a glued fretboard, but that sounds complicated and painful. So let us say a short prayer to god of invisible glue lines...... Thanks for reading.

[/quote]

I was reading about that on another build. I think the chap used a lot of steam to get the timber hot and pliable too. I am not brave enough. I had seriously considered it as a way to convert a standard neck to a 35 inch scale. It's a bit beyond my limits of patience, that sort of thing. I might have a neck job to put out to tender soon.

I hear you re: creeping joints. I had a set neck to do on a ukulele build that my house-mate was struggling with. It had a butt joint with a biscuit to locate and secure it.

I scraped back the high spots on the mating surface of the neck to get near 100 percent surface contact between the root of the neck and the very slightly curved body whilst leaving a true surface for the fretboard to be bonded across the body and the neck later. Even with that clamped up to a flatted steel beam it was challenging to keep the alignment in two planes simultaneously as the glue squeezed out and contracted due to drying.

Looking forward to your next instalment.

[honza992]

[quote name='SpondonBassed' timestamp='1503565021' post='3359140']
I hear you re: creeping joints.
[/quote]

On this one there are no fretlines and I haven't done the side dots yet so it doesn't really matter if the fretboard shifts a bit anyway. On a fretted board though (and assuming you've already done the fret slots at the point of gluing) it's really critical to make sure there's no creep at all. Dowels and doing the clamps up slow enough to let the glue ooze out in a laid back fashion...that's my 1/10,000th of a bitcoin worth. If anyone else has got some good tips I'd love to hear them because I struggle with it every time.

Edited August 24, 2017 by honza992

[honza992]

On the subject of gluing, the fretboard/neck glue joint came out great. No gaps and the woods look great together! No photos cos I'm a tease.

The body join is good if not quite perfect. There's a couple of points where you can see a very feint black line.
[attachment=252011:IMG_20170824_123241.jpg]
The joint is a few mm above my finger. It's hard to see in the photo. It's pretty hard to see in real life - I keep on losing it. The body is still a few mm too thick so I'm hoping as I sand a bit deeper into the join the line will disappear completely. I'll leave it a day and see how I feel about it - I can always saw it in half again and re-joint and re-glue.....

I'm assuming that the black line is caused by having a joint which isn't completely true. Anyone else get this? Any tips?

[honza992]

Oh and while on the subject of gluing (will it never end??) I also glued together the two halves of the maple top. I used (for the first time) the tent method, thus:

[url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwjsIp44z3k&t=29s"]https://www.youtube....jsIp44z3k&t=29s[/url]

It was dead easy to do, but.....I'm not sure about the results. I've only just done it so obviously it needs to dry for a few hours, but I can already see the deadly thin black line. It looks cool:
[attachment=252013:IMG_20170824_121537.jpg]
Pudding, proof, though. We'll see how it is tomorow.

[Norris]

[quote name='honza992' timestamp='1503575068' post='3359292']
On the subject of gluing, the fretboard/neck glue joint came out great. No gaps and the woods look great together! No photos cos I'm a tease.

The body join is good if not quite perfect. There's a couple of points where you can see a very feint black line.
[attachment=252011:IMG_20170824_123241.jpg]
The joint is a few mm above my finger. It's hard to see in the photo. It's pretty hard to see in real life - I keep on losing it. The body is still a few mm too thick so I'm hoping as I sand a bit deeper into the join the line will disappear completely. I'll leave it a day and see how I feel about it - I can always saw it in half again and re-joint and re-glue.....

I'm assuming that the black line is caused by having a joint which isn't completely true. Anyone else get this? Any tips?
[/quote]

When you think you've got the two halves ready for joining, hold them together and hold it up to the light. If you can see any light it's not mated well enough yet. A long ("jack" is good or "jointing" is even better) plane with a nice sharp blade is the best tool for the job to get the surfaces really flat

[fftc]

[quote name='honza992' timestamp='1503428815' post='3358196']
Or if I've bored you senseless let me know and I'll have single word updates from now on
[/quote]

Sadly I don't have any advice on glueing, clamping or black lines. Pretty clueless on that sort of stuff, but enjoying reading about your challenges so please keep the updates going.

[SpondonBassed]

I can advise you on getting full contact at the mating surfaces. PM me if you are interested. Sanding is not good for keeping surfaces flat and it might be why you are seeing the glue solidifying in a gap.

[rubis]

There is an Americam forum called TDPRI, about Telecasters mainly (I know, Tele is a four letter word) but I love them, they are
easy-ish to build, and the the variations on a theme nearly always look cool
They have a Home Build section, some set ups are more professional looking than amateur, but one bloke in particular, named Scatter Lee does some excellent builds with tools typically found in an enthusiasts workshop, and is very good at building jigs or devices as solutions to a problem, very much a "can do" or should I say "can do without" attitude, when others seem to have a machine shop in their garage
His 'gater photos are a nice diversion too
I have wisely spent many hours reading his numerous builds, well worth a look and very educational

http://www.tdpri.com/threads/completed-scatter-lees-build.467702/

[honza992]

[quote name='Norris' timestamp='1503643635' post='3359837']
When you think you've got the two halves ready for joining, hold them together and hold it up to the light. If you can see any light it's not mated well enough yet. A long ("jack" is good or "jointing" is even better) plane with a nice sharp blade is the best tool for the job to get the surfaces really flat
[/quote]
Thanks Norris. I use the light method for thinner things like tops, and at some point I'll put together a light box. But for bodies that are over an inch thick I've never had much luck in using the technique successfully. I've spent ages with my face squished up on the side of a body join trying to see light. Maybe a light box would help with bodies as well. Would a cheap jointing plane (a quick internet search show a Faithful one for £37) do ok, or are handplanes like so much in woodworking, cheap is a false economy?

At some point I'd really like to start using more hand tools. I use a spokeshave for the neck, occasionally a chisel for this and that, and although I've got a couple of planes I never really use them. I love the idea of creating less dust though. What I'd love to do is find an evening class or something. One day.....

[quote name='SpondonBassed' timestamp='1503646822' post='3359862']
I can advise you on getting full contact at the mating surfaces. PM me if you are interested. Sanding is not good for keeping surfaces flat and it might be why you are seeing the glue solidifying in a gap.
[/quote]
Great, thanks, I'll drop you a PM sent, but also feel free to post anything here.

[quote name='rubis' timestamp='1503672319' post='3360216']
There is an Americam forum called TDPRI, about Telecasters mainly (I know, Tele is a four letter word) but I love them, they are
easy-ish to build, and the the variations on a theme nearly always look cool
They have a Home Build section, some set ups are more professional looking than amateur, but one bloke in particular, named Scatter Lee does some excellent builds with tools typically found in an enthusiasts workshop, and is very good at building jigs or devices as solutions to a problem, very much a "can do" or should I say "can do without" attitude, when others seem to have a machine shop in their garage
His 'gater photos are a nice diversion too
I have wisely spent many hours reading his numerous builds, well worth a look and very educational

[url="http://www.tdpri.com/threads/completed-scatter-lees-build.467702/"]http://www.tdpri.com...s-build.467702/[/url]
[/quote]

I agree with you, I love the tele. The strat always looked a bit polite to me. Ok, it probably new the difference between dorian and phrygian, but I bet the tele got more girls. And yes, TDPRI is a great site. I've spent countless hours there. I can honestly say that without sites like TDPRI, Talkbass and BassChat I would never have built a bass. The internet may be destroying the high street, our ability to communicate using real words and childhood innocence, but it has also provided me with endless help, advice and encouragement. Of course whether you consider that a fair swap I shall leave to you!

[honza992]

Not too much of an update today other then side dots. Because the ebony board is quite attractive I've decided not to have lines, just side dots. However, because I can hardly play with frets, let alone fretless, I decided to have side dots at every position. To get the dots positions exactly consistent I built this jig (ok, saying 'built' is a bit of an exaggeration, and indeed calling it a 'jig', it's a bit of plastic screwed onto a bit of scrap....), which works really, really well.
[attachment=252127:IMG_20170824_162716 (1).jpg]


I've used cream dots for 3, 5, 7, 9 etc and white for the other 'in-between' positions. I'm not sure how successful that was, they're pretty similar. But they look kind of nice.
[attachment=252126:IMG_20170825_122458 (1).jpg]

That's it for today. Thanks for watching.

[Norris]

For a decent plane your best bet is to get an old one from eBay. New ones seem to have blades made out of butter unless you pay a fortune for real quality. A new cheap one is a false economy really. Unfortunately old planes are collectors items too.

I was lucky enough to pick up an old Stanley jack plane that someone had spent ages reconditioning and repainting - killing its collectable value in the process It's a lovely thing to work with having sharpened the blade

[honza992]

[quote name='Norris' timestamp='1503736077' post='3360579']
For a decent plane your best bet is to get an old one from eBay. New ones seem to have blades made out of butter unless you pay a fortune for real quality. A new cheap one is a false economy really. Unfortunately old planes are collectors items too.

I was lucky enough to pick up an old Stanley jack plane that someone had spent ages reconditioning and repainting - killing its collectable value in the process It's a lovely thing to work with having sharpened the blade
[/quote]

Thanks Norris, I assumed that was going to be the case. It seems odd that with modern manufacturing techniques they are unable to make something better than a plane made before computers and cnc even existed. But I know this is also the case with most other woodworking tools and machinery.

Given my extremely limited experience of hand planes, how big an ask is it to buy, restore, sharpen and learn to use a plane like that? Alternatively I've already got a number 4 bench plane. How good a job could that do on jointing the two body halves? Of course I still have to learn to use that one properly.....

Edited August 26, 2017 by honza992

[SpondonBassed]

[quote name='Norris' timestamp='1503736077' post='3360579']
...Unfortunately old planes are collectors items too.

I was lucky enough to pick up an old Stanley jack plane that someone had spent ages reconditioning and repainting - killing its collectable value in the process It's a lovely thing to work with having sharpened the blade
[/quote]

Fortunately I have all of my granddad's and my dad's woodworking tools still.

I am neither a collector nor a speculator so it's a win win situation for me, liking hand tools as I do. I like machine tools as well you understand but it's hard to put any soul into your work using them.