F****r AE Precision build - Final PICS added!

[Norris]

[quote name='honza992' timestamp='1503742527' post='3360635']
Thanks Norris, I assumed that was going to be the case. It seems odd that with modern manufacturing techniques they are unable to make something better than a plane made before computers and cnc even existed. But I know this is also the case with most other woodworking tools and machinery.

Given my extremely limited experience of hand planes, how big an ask is it to buy, restore, sharpen and learn to use a plane like that? Alternatively I've already got a number 4 bench plane. How good a job could that do on jointing the two body halves? Of course I still have to learn to use that one properly.....
[/quote]

A number four plane would be better than nothing. I think a jack plane is a number 5 and a jointing plane a number 6. Basically they go up in length. The longer the plane the flatter you can get your surface - depending on the size of your workpiece of course.

A sharpening kit is not expensive though. The one I got has a double sided stone and a jig to hold the blade at the correct angle. The jig clamps onto the blade and has a wheel on the back. Some people will even go as far as to then polish the blade with wet & dry placed on a flat sheet of glass. Basically, the sharper the better. There are plenty of YouTube tutorials and online guides for that

[Norris]

As for the quality of modern tools, once upon a time we used to make stuff in Britain using quality steel. These days they are usually made in the far East as cheaply as possible. Premium quality tools are available but tend to cost premium prices. You get what you pay for. However with things like planes, as long as the body isn't cracked or the blade chipped, one made e.g. in the sixties is just as good as anything you can buy new today. It is after all a hunk of metal. Even some of the vintage wooden ones are still perfectly serviceable - it's a flat surface with a blade poking out

Edited August 26, 2017 by Norris

[samhay]

[quote name='honza992' timestamp='1503742527' post='3360635']
Alternatively I've already got a number 4 bench plane. How good a job could that do on jointing the two body halves? Of course I still have to learn to use that one properly.....
[/quote]

A No. 4 is a good size for jointing using a shooting board.

[SpondonBassed]

[quote name='Norris' timestamp='1503770874' post='3360843']
As for the quality of modern tools, once upon a time we used to make stuff in Britain using quality steel. These days they are usually made in the far East as cheaply as possible. Premium quality tools are available but tend to cost premium prices. You get what you pay for. However with things like planes, as long as the body isn't cracked or the blade chipped, one made e.g. in the sixties is just as good as anything you can buy new today. It is after all a hunk of metal. Even some of the vintage wooden ones are still perfectly serviceable - it's a flat surface with a blade poking out
[/quote]

I just looked up "Sheffield Steel" and got a company in Ohio!

[quote name='samhay' timestamp='1503775104' post='3360873']
A No. 4 is a good size for jointing using a shooting board.
[/quote]

Samhay's suggestion got me looking further;
http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/Setting%20Up%20and%20Using%20a%20Shooting%20Board4.html

[honza992]

[quote name='samhay' timestamp='1503775104' post='3360873']
A No. 4 is a good size for jointing using a shooting board.
[/quote]

Thanks Samhay. The article that SpondonBassed pointed to also suggested that in direct contradiction to what I've always been told, size really doesn't matter. When I find some time I'll try putting together a shooting board and try my No.4. My trouble is I get impatient, trying to build rather than building up my skills which in the long term would be much, much, more useful......

Edited August 27, 2017 by honza992

[samhay]

Happy to help.
A sharp plane is a fine thing, regardless of how big it is.
And a little time spent building jigs is time well spent.

[honza992]

Not too much of an update today. I drilled out the top chamber with a forstner and finished with a router.
[attachment=252231:IMG_20170828_093344.jpg]

I then glued on a piece of 0.6mm black veneer using a hand pump & vacuum bag and epoxy. I use epoxy rather than titebond because in the past I've had issues with the body warping, I assume from the water content in the glue. With epoxy though there's no movement at all. Tomorrow I'll cut away the veneer from the top chamber then glue on the maple top, again using the vacuum bag.
[attachment=252230:IMG_20170828_114742.jpg]

I've put in the black veneer just to add in a bit of interest to the ivoroid binding. I'm also going to leave some of the maple top exposed from the side. So from bottom to top it will be mahogany, black stripe, maple stripe, then ivoroid binding. Or at least that's the plan at the moment. I'll do a test sample before routing the binding to make sure it doesn't look too ridiculous.

Edited August 28, 2017 by honza992

[honza992]

[size=4][font=Arial]OK, sorry I've been a bit lax in posting updates, so there's a bit to get through.....[/font]

[font=Arial]First up I thicknessed the headstock using what is undoubtedly the least attractive jig ever. Every time I look at it I feel slightly grubby. It works though, so I fear utility wins over elegance:[/font][/size]


[size=4][font=Arial]Next up is the neck pocket. I've tried a few different methods but the one I like most I've copied completely from here:[/font]
[url="http://www.bestbassgear.com/ebass/article/how-to-build-a-bass-guitar-neck-pocket-template-fabrication.html"][color=#1155CC][font=Arial]http://www.bestbassg...abrication.html[/font][/color][/url]
[font=Arial]This is what I ended up with:[/font][/size]


[size=4][font=Arial]I put the neck on the centre line, then use two straight edges to ensure it's aligned correctly. On the ruler the two straight edges were 62.5mm apart (ie 54mm of string spacing then 4mm each side of gap), an error of 0.5mm which I'm happy with. [/font][/size]

[size=4][font=Arial]I clamp the neck down, slide the template over the top then remove the neck. [/font][font=Arial]I then routed it to a depth of 16mm (neck thickness minus minimum height of bridge) then said a short prayer. [/font]

[font=Arial]Perfect fit! Oh, yes, time for a mock up:[/font][/size]

[size=4][font=Arial]Ignore the knobs and bridge, they’re scrap. But it’s beginning to look more bass like. [/font]



[font=Arial]Now peeps, I need your advice. I want to do binding, cos I’m funny like that. Here are your options:[/font]

Option 1 - Ivoroid binding with thin black/maple line showing[/size]

[size=4][font=Arial]Option 2. Black binding with thin black/maple line showing[/font][/size]

[size=4][font=Arial]Option 3. Plain ivoroid binding (photo taken from an earlier build)[/font][/size]

[size=4][font=Arial]Option 4. Plain black binding (photo taken from an earlier build). [/font][/size]

[size=4][color=#000000][font=Arial]Anyone have any views or preferences? It’ll have La Bella tapewound strings which are black. I'm not sure yet what wood the bridge will be made out of. Ideally it will be the same as the fretboard - I’ve emailed the supplier but haven’t heard back as to whether they have a bridge sized blank. [/font][/color]

[color=#000000][font=Arial]I would do another poll, but what with Brexit then the top wood/fretboard poll I should imagine you are all exhausted. So just comment away.....[/font][/color]

[color=#000000][font=Arial]As ever, thanks for you input. [/font][/color][/size]

Edited August 31, 2017 by honza992

[Andyjr1515]

Hi
I realise how out of date I am with this thread! Wow - what a lot of progress in such a short time!!!!

There are some very sound approaches on show here. Your neck line-up approach looks positively space-engineering class . And clearly it works - getting a perfect and lined up neck fit is no easy task. Well done. Great job.

[Owen]

[quote name='honza992' timestamp='1504212638' post='3363492']

[size=4][font=Arial]Now peeps, I need your advice. I want to do binding, cos I’m funny like that. [/font][/size]

[/quote]

Binding is ALWAYS lush. How about some Bird's Eye Maple binding? I have some on a Faith acoustic and it is subtle yet classy. You cannot really see the detail from the front, but then you see it from the side when you play and you get that warm feeling inside. Of course, I have no idea how much extra work this would be or any of that tedious detail stuff. If not I would go with the Ivory stuff. Black seems pretty hard. Obv YYMV!

[honza992]

[quote name='owen' timestamp='1504250450' post='3363593']
Binding is ALWAYS lush. How about some Bird's Eye Maple binding?
[/quote]

Ha ha I agree! And Bird's Eye maple sounds great, but maybe not yet. From what I've read those exotic bindings are fragile and hard to bend on a iron. Up till now I've only used plastic binding which I bend with the wife's hairdryer. Though don't tell her that. You have though got me thinking.....

[honza992]

While you are pondering the issue of binding, I'll bring everything up to date.

Today was neck joint day. I use bolts and threaded inserts rather than the more usual woodscrews partly because I like a challenge and partly to ensure the neck joint remains true should Trump, Kim Jong Il or Jean-Claude Juncker come round for tea and I am forced to use it as a weapon for the benefit of mankind.

The trick with bolts and threaded inserts is that you have to get alignment more or less spot on. It's not hard but I've only ever been able to do it successfully with a drill press - the drill press helps in keeping everying vertical. I've seen people online do it with a hand drill, but they clearly have more ability than me....

I use M5 bolts and threaded inserts. Overkill probably, M4 would probably be fine. Obviously if you are using M4, drill bit sizes will differ.

The first step is to drill a 5mm hole through the body then WITHOUT moving the body or the drill do another 15mm hole which will be for the neck ferrule. I then put the body vertically in a vice, put the neck in then by hand twiddle a 5mm brad point bit so that it scratches an indentation on the neck. This indentation is the guide for where to drill the holes for the inserts in the neck.


I then tape the neck to a radius block so that it sits nicely horizontal, then drill 9mm holes for the inserts to go in.


I then put the inserts in by putting them onto a threaded rod and turn the drill by hand to force them into the hole. This ensures then go in vertically rather than wobbling around all over the place which is what happens if I do it by hand.


And that's it! Along with making knobs, this was actually the process that has taken me the longest to work out. Starting from scratch meant I had no general woodworking knowledge to help. For example it took me several necks (and hours and hours and hours frustration) to realise that once you have the drill press and your workpiece clamped down, you can put different sized bits in and out and it will drill one hole centred on the other. It's completely obvious to me now, but not from the outset. And it's been the same with a million other things. It's been a blast!

Anyway, the final fitting and I was able to do up all four bolts with my fingers. Alignment spot on.

Edited September 1, 2017 by honza992

[LukeFRC]

This looks amazing

[SpondonBassed]

Nice choice of internal wrenching neck bolts and countersunk washers. Did you use any bonding agent with the inserts?

[honza992]

[quote name='SpondonBassed' timestamp='1504347196' post='3364240']
Nice choice of internal wrenching neck bolts and countersunk washers. Did you use any bonding agent with the inserts?
[/quote]

I did wick in some thin CA glue. Massive overkill probably. My guess is the threaded inserts are many times stronger than woodscrews. I started using them becuase my wife is Italian and we travel quite a lot back and forth, so I thought I might be taking a neck off frequently. As it turns out I now have a 16 month daughter so thoughts of doing anything in Italy other than running round after her then collapsing in exhaustion have vanished....there is nothing less relaxing than holidaying with a toddler..

[fftc]

[quote name='honza992' timestamp='1504381804' post='3364551']
...there is nothing less relaxing than holidaying with a toddler..
[/quote]

My son will be three at the end of the month.
Sometimes I long for the relaxing and peaceful days of the 16 month old toddler!



That aside great to see your progress. The neck bolts look fantastic.

[SpondonBassed]

[quote name='honza992' timestamp='1504381804' post='3364551']
I did wick in some thin CA glue. Massive overkill probably. My guess is the threaded inserts are many times stronger than woodscrews. I started using them becuase my wife is Italian and we travel quite a lot back and forth, so I thought I might be taking a neck off frequently. As it turns out I now have a 16 month daughter so thoughts of doing anything in Italy other than running round after her then collapsing in exhaustion have vanished....there is nothing less relaxing than holidaying with a toddler..
[/quote]

I'd say over engineering is fine and acceptable. In that neck root area especially. It's not overkill given that you intended to dismantle more frequently than would be expected.

It's great to hear your daughter gets a multi-cultural experience already. My friend's just had twins and knowing her she'll have them with her visiting her school mate in Turkey before Christmas.

Edited September 3, 2017 by SpondonBassed

[honza992]

[quote name='fftc' timestamp='1504425982' post='3364690']
My son will be three at the end of the month.
Sometimes I long for the relaxing and peaceful days of the 16 month old toddler!
[/quote]

Ha ha ha that made me laugh. Good jo....hold on, that was a joke wasn't it? You don't mean...it get's worse??!?

[honza992]

[quote name='SpondonBassed' timestamp='1504458884' post='3365002']
It's great to hear your daughter gets a multi-cultural experience already.
[/quote]

Ooooh, yes. She can already eat icecream and spaghetti like the best of them!

[honza992]

Bit of a mish mash of an update today. But let's start with knobs..... Hee hee......

I make my own. It's not complicated, but again (like neck inserts) you really need a drill press. First up I glued the fretboard cutoff onto a piece of mahogany scrap from the body. I then thicknessed this blank to the final height of the knobs, 19mm or thereabouts.

I then securely clamp the blank UPSIDE DOWN on the drill press. Every fibre of your being will try to persuade you to clamp it facing up. If you do, as I have done (and I think more than once), yer buggered.

Anyway, clamp it down then drill a 6mm hole for the knurled part of the pot. Then [u]without moving the drill or the body[/u] take the 6mm bit out and replace it with a forstner bit, I use 14mm. Drill a few milimetres deep, enough for the hex nut that secures the pot down to the guitar. Assuming you haven't moved anything you should find the two holes are concentric. Again, without moving the drill or the body I use the mother of all plug cutters to cut our the knob itself. Mine is 1/2".

Assuming all goes well you should find everthing is concentric and rotates without wobbling on the pot. I hate a wobbly knob

Then to reach our knob climax It's just a matter of drilling a 2mm hole for a dot, and a 2.5mm hole for a 2mm grub screw on the side. Somewhat rashly I then decided to sand a bevel onto the top so that in dark you can feel where it's positioned. I'm not quite sure why, I'm only likely to be playing in the dark if my 50p in the electric meter runs out prematurely. I'm not sure whether I like the result or not. Also part of me wishes I had put a bit of maple veneer between the two parts of the knob, so that there was a bit of seperation between the two colours (ie between the mahogany and the ebony). To my eye they are just a bit similar. But, I've got no more ebony scrap so I shall just have to live with them. Let me know what you think.



Knob update complete.

[honza992]

The body is rapidly approaching completion. I've routed the f-hole, truss rod access rout, and control cavity. I've also done the roundover on the back. I've used a 1/2" radius, which gives a pretty big curve, but I quite like the contrast between the curvy back and the flat front (cos it will eventually have binding). There's a bit of carving that needs doing to blend the different roundover sized near the neck join and obviously masses of sanding that needs to be done. I'll take it to 150 or so and then do the binding, though that's a post for a different day. Here it is as of today....




The weight of the body at this point is just over 1.8kg, so my back-of-a-tack-cloth estimation is a final bass weight of 3.1kg. Just about right for an exhausted 47 year old first time father

Edited September 5, 2017 by honza992

[honza992]

And finally I routed the neck taper. Using another of my uttlerly hideously ugly jigs. If you are of a weak constitution, or are a proper woodworker, look away now.


The neck is narrow - 38mm at the nut with 18mm string spacing at the bridge - so I've kept it a reasonable thickness front to back, 22mm at the nut and 24mm at the 12th fret. Lots of people seem to like using graphite rods but my novice prejudice tells me not to. I feel as though they would fight the truss rod and I'd rather have the neck 1 or 2mm thicker. The flatsawn neck blank seemed to have pretty straight grain so I'm hoping for a stable neck.....

If I have some time tomorrow, I'll start on the neck carve.

Thanks for visiting.

[Owen]

Proper lush. If you have the right wood the whole aesthetic looks after itself. You have the right wood.

[honza992]

[quote name='owen' timestamp='1504641898' post='3366344']
Proper lush. If you have the right wood the whole aesthetic looks after itself. You have the right wood.
[/quote]

Ha ha, you clearly haven't seen the crimes against humanity that I have committed on a range of beautiful, rare and exotic wood that has resulted in little more than a mangled pile of (probably poisenous) firewood.

Edited September 5, 2017 by honza992

[SpondonBassed]

[quote name='honza992' timestamp='1504640490' post='3366328']
Bit of a mish mash of an update today. But let's start with knobs..... Hee hee......

I make my own. It's not complicated, but again (like neck inserts) you really need a drill press. First up I glued the fretboard cutoff onto a piece of mahogany scrap from the body. I then thicknessed this blank to the final height of the knobs, 19mm or thereabouts.

[color=#ff0000][b][Image deleted][/b][/color]

I then securely clamp the blank UPSIDE DOWN on the drill press. Every fibre of your being will try to persuade you to clamp it facing up. If you do, as I have done (and I think more than once), yer buggered.

Anyway, clamp it down then drill a 6mm hole for the knurled part of the pot. Then [u]without moving the drill or the body[/u] take the 6mm bit out and replace it with a forstner bit, I use 14mm. Drill a few milimetres deep, enough for the hex nut that secures the pot down to the guitar. Assuming you haven't moved anything you should find the two holes are concentric. Again, without moving the drill or the body I use the mother of all plug cutters to cut our the knob itself. Mine is 1/2".

[color=#ff0000][b][Image deleted][/b][/color]

Assuming all goes well you should find everthing is concentric and rotates without wobbling on the pot. I hate a wobbly knob

Then to reach our knob climax It's just a matter of drilling a 2mm hole for a dot, and a 2.5mm hole for a 2mm grub screw on the side. Somewhat rashly I then decided to sand a bevel onto the top so that in dark you can feel where it's positioned. I'm not quite sure why, I'm only likely to be playing in the dark if my 50p in the electric meter runs out prematurely. I'm not sure whether I like the result or not. Also part of me wishes I had put a bit of maple veneer between the two parts of the knob, so that there was a bit of seperation between the two colours (ie between the mahogany and the ebony). To my eye they are just a bit similar. But, I've got no more ebony scrap so I shall just have to live with them. Let me know what you think.

[color=#ff0000][b][Image deleted][/b][/color]

Knob update complete.


[/quote]

[attachment=252957:LesDawson.png]



I'm thinking you might be the bloke that Finbarr Saunders was based on.
[url="http://viz.co.uk/category/finbarr-saunders/"]http://viz.co.uk/cat...nbarr-saunders/[/url]