Drums through PA

[Cuzzie]

[quote name='moonbass' timestamp='1505852888' post='3374828']
I think a lot of pub gigs would be more successful if drummers paid more attention to volume balance. I generally find kick and toms are too quiet and snare and cymbals drown everything out. I've noticed the band Vulfpeck always damp their snares even at large gigs with cloth, presumably in keeping with their low volume ethos. Does anyone make low volume cymbals?
[/quote]

Low volume cymbals are the ones with holes in it that look like my grandfathers old pants

[charic]

If you're definitely moving to acoustic kit (you could always consider a hybrid, a converted acoustic kit for the visuals but it won't fix your other two bugbears) then I would consider the drummer starting with the smallest kit he can get away with (as in number of drums/cymbals). The best sound I've ever heard in pubs have always been from bands with smaller kits.

[EliasMooseblaster]

[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1504694971' post='3366594']
Yup, it's a real thing. And it's a right pain to deal with.

Can't EQ it out because the vocals sound weird. Can't gate on lead vocals as it sounds pants... especially when there's talking and singing going on... and stuff with lots of dynamics. As stated above, bleed into vocal mics and concurrent use of overheads on the drums may be the recipe for a disaster in a small or reflective venue!

[/quote]

Get a smaller drummer and a taller singer?

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='charic' timestamp='1507535974' post='3386044']
The best sound I've ever heard in pubs have always been from bands with smaller kits.
[/quote]

Agreed. Problem is getting the drummer to agree to play a small kit.

My band, the drummer has a number of kits and a - knows how to play at different volumes b - bring the right kit to the right gig...

Conversely, a mates band - just looking at a picture of the drummers kit now, turns up to every gig with 2 up 2 down, rack and more cymbals than I care to mention, usually in stacks. Completely inappropriate for the indie tracks that they play.... but "its my tone, it brings something different, I couldn't play properly behind a small kit"

Oh yeah, and he has a double bass drum pedal... that he tends to use for every song.

I wouldn't have him in my band...

I keep saying, mic for clarity, not for volume. Properly miced shells send infinitely better than a purely acoustic kit... unless its overpowering everything else and leading to shed loads of cymbal bleed through the vocal mics.

[Happy Jack]

I played briefly with an old-school drummer whose kit was bigger than the rest of the band put together, double kicks, two floor toms, five rack toms (seriously), more cymbals than an occult convention.

After our second (and final) gig together I took a close look at his kit before he broke it down. Four of the toms had heads that had never been hit, and most of the cymbals were as new.

Go figure.

Well at least he didn't have a 48" gong hanging behind him.

***********************

At a venue where I've gigged regularly for years there's another regular band who are good enough that I go and see them on my "evening off" if they're playing.

Their drummer has a similarly large & complex kit but he actually uses every bit of it, and in a tasteful sort of way.

I mention him because he always gets to the pub a full hour before the others, so that he can spend the extra time setting up his kit and then mic'ing it up as if he is playing Glastonbury ... kick drums, overheads, clip-ons for every tom, the whole works.

In fairness he sounds fantastic, but it's an awful lot of extra faffing for - I would have thought - a pretty limited benefit.

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1507543552' post='3386117']
At a venue where I've gigged regularly for years there's another regular band who are good enough that I go and see them on my "evening off" if they're playing.

Their drummer has a similarly large & complex kit but he actually uses every bit of it, and in a tasteful sort of way.

I mention him because he always gets to the pub a full hour before the others, so that he can spend the extra time setting up his kit and then mic'ing it up as if he is playing Glastonbury ... kick drums, overheads, clip-ons for every tom, the whole works.

In fairness he sounds fantastic, but it's an awful lot of extra faffing for - I would have thought - a pretty limited benefit.
[/quote]
Somebody that takes pride in their work. It's true - it does take a lot of work but can make a massive difference. Micing up the kit is defo one where you have to be realistic in what additional benefit it brings to the gig... but hey, alot of people like the gear aspect of playing... and if they thing it makes them sound better and as a result, makes them play better, than yeah, all power to them. (As long as they aren't compromising the mix out front!)

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='Pea Turgh' timestamp='1505851520' post='3374808']
I play in a 9 piece function band, with a soundie and a good PA. The whole kit is mic'd. I think it's usually total overkill!

When we rehearse, we use an active wedge for vocals, nothing else mic'd up. Always sounds great, always feels good. Why not this way in a pub?!

My thinking is, I'm there to provide entertainment, to enhance a punters night. Not hold them in place with decibels/deafen them! It's not all about the band!

I think if more people subscribed to a more modest volume approach, more people would enjoy the music (and form nicer memories chatting with their friends etc) and maybe there would be more gigs for us lot to play!!!
[/quote]

Just like putting bass and guitars into the FOH a micd kit played well can/should result in LOWER volume in a small pub.